Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

wargey wrote:
Th'Shan is a captain not chapter master as they still believe that the primach is still alive.

Tu'shan is by any definition you wish to apply, a chapter master of the Salamanders. He fills the role of Captain of the 1st due to their organization, but he is, without a doubt, the sole commanding officer of the Salamanders and is referred to by everyone, inside and out, as a chapter master. Thus making him, a chapter master.

cincydooley do you mind posting them then we can make a amazing codex that is well balanced but cool.
Thanks
Harry
(Wargey)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Captin no chang auto promeathean brandings can have a inferno pistol or hand flamer

So we have tactical SQ, firedrakes, sterngaurd and inferno gaurd.
What shall we do now.

wargey wrote:
So we have tactical SQ, firedrakes, sterngaurd and inferno gaurd.
What shall we do now.

Why aren't you using the normal Sternguard statline?

List these rules in one place, once again. And place those "spoiler" buttons on them, so not each ruleset is constantly visible


And about that Tu'Shan:
I personally remember ONLY THREE S5 marines. They are Kaldor Draigo, Arjac and then there's Dante's personal Carnifex.
All of these are from incredibly cc oriented chapters, each in their own ways. And Besides, Arjac doesn't swing HIS hammer at I, even though he is S5!

Yes now I see how broken it would be how about

285pts
he makes firedrakes troops no ob inspiring presance army wide stobborn all firedrakes become fearless
Mc hammer how dose I2 sound on his hammer due to the amout of time he uses it
TDA
Melta pistol
S8 AP1 melta 12inc
Drake cloak
Same as he'stan

I did not use the norm stergaurd as the salamanders are a close range killy burn then cut them in half then burn again chapter
Not total CC chapter or a long range shooty upy chapter
So I went sterngaurd vangaurd join
Rule for tu'shan if you take 1 veteran SQ you can not take firedrakes
And if you take 1 firedrak SQ as troops you can not have a veteran SQ

wargey wrote:
I did not use the norm stergaurd as the salamanders are a close range killy burn then cut them in half then burn again chapter
Not total CC chapter or a long range shooty upy chapter
So I went sterngaurd vangaurd join
Rule for tu'shan if you take 1 veteran SQ you can not take firedrakes
And if you take 1 firedrak SQ as troops you can not have a veteran SQ

Dude. Use punctuation.

wargey wrote:
I did not use the norm stergaurd as the salamanders are a close range killy burn then cut them in half then burn again chapter
Not total CC chapter or a long range shooty upy chapter
So I went sterngaurd vangaurd join
Rule for tu'shan if you take 1 veteran SQ you can not take firedrakes
And if you take 1 firedrak SQ as troops you can not have a veteran SQ

You seem to have a hard understanding what a 'codex adherent chapter' means. It means they adhere to the doctrines, tactics, organizations, and general framework of a chapter as prescribed in the codex astartes. They have a few minor changes, but ultimately, still field the same units with the same equipment available to every other chapter.

So they still field Sternguard exactly as sternguard in every other chapter, and they still field Vanguard units like every other chapter (though significantly rarer due to Nocturne's quirks).

Quite literally all they need are one or two additional wargear options, but even I'm hard pressed to think of something sternguard need that I couldn't already take to be Sally-esque. I can currently take sternguard with 2x heavy flamers and a bunch of combi melta or flamers, and bam, Salamanders.

Your rules are either over complicated, poorly worded, poorly thought out, poorly executed, or just downright overpowered. Take your time. Stop trying to come up with a rule or change for every marine unit. They don't need it.

 Blacksails wrote:

Your rules are either over complicated, poorly worded, poorly thought out, poorly executed, or just downright overpowered. Take your time. Stop trying to come up with a rule or change for every marine unit. They don't need it.

QFT

Seriously, listen to this guy. He actually knows what he is talking about here hahaha. Salamanders are codex adherent, they may have preferred tactics from that codex but they still have the same equipment and units as any other codex chapter. Chapters that got their own codex are chapters that are so divergent from the norm that they just can't be made from the vanilla SM book. Salamanders could, you just need to put flamers on everything really. Some special wargear for a few units, and maybe a special character that adds one or two army special rules, but that's it. Not a redesign of every single unit. Let me just repeat that in a obvious way.

Some special wargear for a few units, and maybe a special character that adds one or two army special rules, but that's it. Not a redesign of every single unit.

OK? Adding all these special rules and wargear and new units may be cool, but it's over-complicated and not needed. Things like Terminators and HQ characters may get a few new toys, but they should have the same stat lines. Things like Tactical Squads shouldn't change at all, except maybe give them the option of taking 2 special weapons (not a free second one like GH's, but just pay for two and get two) instead of a special and a heavy and that's it. It's something special, but not OP or complicated. It's also still fairly codex adherent, I don't think that it's gonna make people too upset.

They don't need new special rules and crap. Devastators don't either. Nothing does. As we said, some new wargear here and there related to their preferred tactics, but not any new special rules outside HQ's (and limit it to 2 at most) or maybe ONE army-wide. Boom, make it balanced and that's it.

wargey wrote:

Mc hammer how dose I2 sound on his hammer due to the amout of time he uses it

This buff would do nothing, since all TH master crafted or not are unwieldy, it would still hit at I1.

You really need to be more organized when doing this.

Some of the stuff seems ok, but you need to do a lot more work man

so for this codex 2/10 would not play or even consider

Ok call it the hammer of the primach it is S8 AP1 master crafted
It allways hits at I2 or 1 attack at I4

They use inferno pistols drake hides and cloaks promeethean brandings
They all most have a deathwing just its called the fire drakes they have the most veterans
They rearly field veterans in PA

stengaurds
May master craft 20pts
Can take normal arnements
Can choose to be close range specilsts 50+
They 4/5 have inferno pistols and power sword 1 has a heavy flamer
1 extra can have a heavy flamer + 10pts
Can have promeethean brandings +7ppm
Vangaurds
Have melta pistols and power swords
Can take a heavy flamer +10pts
Can have promeethean brandings +7ppm
Can have jump packs +3ppm

I thought that it sounds better st tus'gan has a chain sword and a combi.
Kotan kidai has a inferno pistol.
His company champion has a flame sword.


From the tome of fire books.

Thoes rules are way to complicated, you can call the hammer what ever you want it will strike at i1

He is hopeless. He is ignoring every bit of advice that tells him to make it more legible, use proper punctuation and format, and generally to stop over thinking the rules.

I also must point out, they do, in fact, field veterans in power armour regularly.

Your fluff is incorrect. You need to legitimately do more reading to understand how the Salamanders actually function.

Ok, he's back on ignore.

 Blacksails wrote:
He is hopeless. He is ignoring every bit of advice that tells him to make it more legible, use proper punctuation and format, and generally to stop over thinking the rules.

I also must point out, they do, in fact, field veterans in power armour regularly.

Your fluff is incorrect. You need to legitimately do more reading to understand how the Salamanders actually function.

QFT. The Fire Drakes are the 1st company, commonly the veteran company in most chapters. This means most termies are probably there too, but it doesn't mean MOST of them are termies.

I'd say you haven't plaid enough on TT or are too young to yet make something balanced. I do not mean to offend you, and neither does anyone else.

Also what he seems to not understand is that most if not all the first company is in power armor and that term armor is worn when needed. Most chapters dont have their first company always in term armor.

 Backspacehacker wrote:
Also what he seems to not understand is that most if not all the first company is in power armor and that term armor is worn when needed. Most chapters dont have their first company always in term armor.

Exactly! Term armor is some of the most sacred relics of the chapter, only given to the best and most faithful marines, so they don't use it in every battle. Only times they use it are in specialty situations. Majority of the time, the 1st Company will deploy in PA. Even Deathwing, the most famous Veteran Company, will usually be fielding in PA. The chapter doesn't have 100 suits of Term armor to just throw around.

With the hammer. It doesn't matter. Because of rules, it will always strike at I1. I don't want my enemies TH to be hitting at I4, that's verging on OP. Also, I believe it will also only have one attack. I could be wrong though, and thinking of a different rule. And wait, "Hammer of the Primarch"? Why? Why does it have to be so special? What makes it the Hammer of the Primarch? Nothing! It's just a Thunder Hammer, it doesn't have to be different! Thunder Hammers are fine the way they are.

Honestly, not trying to tell you everything you do is wrong, but it's seeming that way. You REALLY need to do A LOT more research than just reading a few books once and calling it a day. Analyze them, figure out the Salamanders TO&E (their available equipment basically), read them multiple times over and ask people about things you aren't 110% sure about. Then, study how to make things balanced. Read other codices, even read some good GW ones to see what they do. Then, make up a draft. Use that fluff knowledge you got. Once you have a NEAR FINISHED DRAFT (as in basics of a codex, with a few unit selections and special rules), post it up here as a document or PDF. Then we can review it and help refine it.

Also, who do you play 40k with? This is important, because these people will be the ones allowing you to play your codex. If they think it's crap and broken, you wasted time. Try making it with them, and keep you in check.

Lastly, how long have you been playing 40k? You seem to be missing some key rule aspects that tells me you are not only young (12 I believe) but inexperienced. Codex writing should really be left to people with years of gaming under their belt. Those guys know the rules inside and out, and know what works and what doesn't. New players don't have that knowledge. Heck, I have been playing for 2-3 years now and I don't think I have the ability to do it quite yet.

THIS SHOULDN'T BE A SMALL PROJECT. If you are serious about making a codex, it will take time. As in months. The time it will take you to FULLY research the faction/army you are making (assuming it's fanbased and not homebrew) and make something even roughly balanced should take a while. And even then, you will never get it perfect. GW are (arguably) professionals and they still screw things up. But, it's much closer to balanced than this has been.

You know i have always wondered if they get two attacks, assault term data sheet says they get 2 attacks and unwieldy does not say anything about limiting their attacks just that they strike an I1

They all have 2 attacks.
The salamanders have the best amour in the imperum of man they have there own forge ship and the techmarines create a lot of termi amour they only use PA when they need to monover quick. They normaly field all or most in tda.
Do you realise if it is a new wepon and its stats say it hits on I2 even though it is unweildy it will hit at I2. I have read all the books on salamanders I have found.

I am prepared to take years to do it even if it kill's me if you won't help I'm sure some one will. Can a moderator please deleate.

Thanks

You're dumb kid, the rules say that if a weapon is unwieldly it always strikes at i1 weapons dont have iniative only models do.

Secondly the dont all field in term armor it even says they are typicly seen in power armor

 Backspacehacker wrote:
You're dumb kid, the rules say that if a weapon is unwieldly it always strikes at i1 weapons dont have iniative only models do.

Secondly the dont even have a forge ship thats not even a thing in 40k

Actually the Salamanders DO have a Forge Ship. The "Archimedes Rex", a derelict Adeptus Mechanicus ship that the Sallie 3rd Company recovered on the Scoria Campaign

But he is right about rules, Unwieldy overrules most all initiative edits. Even then, it doesn't make sense for it not to. Find me a Space Marine that can wave a TH at initiative

EDIT: In regards to Termie armor, while the Salamanders DO have a unusually large amount of TDA, the Firedrakes are still usually in PA. Every picture of Firedrakes I have seen is usually in PA. They aren't too different from other chapters in that regard, TDA is meant for close engagements where heavy armor is needed (like in Space Hulks and things. The average battle uses PA.). You know Sternguard and Vanguard? Those guys are 1st Company. They aren't wearing TDA.

wargey wrote:
They all have 2 attacks.
The salamanders have the best amour in the imperum of man they have there own forge ship and the techmarines create a lot of termi amour they only use PA when they need to monover quick. They normaly field all or most in tda.
Do you realise if it is a new wepon and its stats say it hits on I2 even though it is unweildy it will hit at I2. I have read all the books on salamanders I have found.

I am prepared to take years to do it even if it kill's me if you won't help I'm sure some one will. Can a moderator please deleate.

Thanks

The irony to this is that most of us have been telling you exactly how to go about making this. And you've ignored it, instead deciding to continually create rules that poorly reflect the actual fluff, are completely broken, or completely illogical.

Instead of telling everyone that you're right and we're wrong, why not instead go read more about balancing and creating fair rules.

I love the Salamanders. But you need to take a step back and understand that most of what you want to do for them can be done using the codices already written. Dark Angels DW army for a Firedrakes army, C:SM for most of your needs, and C:BA for whatever else you need. FW has a number of vehicles that would easily fit a Sallies army.

Codex Adherent means they adhere to the codex, albeit with small changes. Don't go reinventing the wheel because they're your favourite army and they have to be super awesome super snowflake special.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 washout77 wrote:

 Backspacehacker wrote:
You're dumb kid, the rules say that if a weapon is unwieldly it always strikes at i1 weapons dont have iniative only models do.

Secondly the dont even have a forge ship thats not even a thing in 40k

Actually the Salamanders DO have a Forge Ship. The "Archimedes Rex", a derelict Adeptus Mechanicus ship that the Sallie 3rd Company recovered on the Scoria Campaign


But he is right about rules, Unwieldy overrules most all initiative edits. Even then, it doesn't make sense for it not to. Find me a Space Marine that can wave a TH at initiative

Errr...the Archimedes Rex was returned to the AdMech. The forge ship is a relic of Vulkan called the Chalice of Fire.

 Blacksails wrote:


Errr...the Archimedes Rex was returned to the AdMech. The forge ship is a relic of Vulkan called the Chalice of Fire.

Yep, you are right. I stand corrected, I mixed up ships.

I feel like this is the same guy who suggested the lynx codex, i think this kid is just a troll

If you want a Thunder Hammer that strikes at I2, don't call it a thunder hammer, and don't use the rules for one. Make something up.

Like -
R:- S:x2 AP:2 Melee, Two-Handed, Concussive, Great weapon

Then define Great weapon as always striking at I2, perhaps allowing other Initiative bonuses to take effect.

It's your damn codex. Make stuff up. But don't come on here and get all defensive when we tell you something is overpowered or silly or simply wrong. Either take our advice or do your own thing.

 McNinja wrote:
If you want a Thunder Hammer that strikes at I2, don't call it a thunder hammer, and don't use the rules for one. Make something up.

Like -
R:- S:x2 AP:2 Melee, Two-Handed, Concussive, Great weapon

Then define Great weapon as always striking at I2, perhaps allowing other Initiative bonuses to take effect.
.

I WAS wondering why you didn't do it this way, wargey...

 LlamaAgility wrote:

 McNinja wrote:
If you want a Thunder Hammer that strikes at I2, don't call it a thunder hammer, and don't use the rules for one. Make something up.

Like -
R:- S:x2 AP:2 Melee, Two-Handed, Concussive, Great weapon

Then define Great weapon as always striking at I2, perhaps allowing other Initiative bonuses to take effect.
.

I WAS wondering why you didn't do it this way, wargey...

Probably because a few months ago the rule Unwieldy didn't exist and thunder hammers were specified as striking at initiative 1. If I had to guess, he isn't very familiar with the new rules. I understand you guys picking him apart (bad rules, worse grammar) but he probably doesn't fully comprehend what you are talking about.

 Lord Magnus wrote:

 LlamaAgility wrote:

 McNinja wrote:
If you want a Thunder Hammer that strikes at I2, don't call it a thunder hammer, and don't use the rules for one. Make something up.

Like -
R:- S:x2 AP:2 Melee, Two-Handed, Concussive, Great weapon

Then define Great weapon as always striking at I2, perhaps allowing other Initiative bonuses to take effect.
.

I WAS wondering why you didn't do it this way, wargey...

Probably because a few months ago the rule Unwieldy didn't exist and thunder hammers were specified as striking at initiative 1. If I had to guess, he isn't very familiar with the new rules. I understand you guys picking him apart (bad rules, worse grammar) but he probably doesn't fully comprehend what you are talking about.

To be fair, if he's making a Codex for 6th Edition, surely he should at least read up on the 6th Ed rules?

 Valkyrie wrote:

 Lord Magnus wrote:

 LlamaAgility wrote:

 McNinja wrote:
If you want a Thunder Hammer that strikes at I2, don't call it a thunder hammer, and don't use the rules for one. Make something up.

Like -
R:- S:x2 AP:2 Melee, Two-Handed, Concussive, Great weapon

Then define Great weapon as always striking at I2, perhaps allowing other Initiative bonuses to take effect.
.

I WAS wondering why you didn't do it this way, wargey...

Probably because a few months ago the rule Unwieldy didn't exist and thunder hammers were specified as striking at initiative 1. If I had to guess, he isn't very familiar with the new rules. I understand you guys picking him apart (bad rules, worse grammar) but he probably doesn't fully comprehend what you are talking about.

To be fair, if he's making a Codex for 6th Edition, surely he should at least read up on the 6th Ed rules?

He SHOULD indeed, however, he is 12. He has a limited understanding of all this, obviously. Just be sure to remind him how things work now.

But we have been for 6 pages