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The archamides rex was given to the marines menevolants for helping them.
The only time I have read that all the sallies were fieled in PA was at the battle of comragh (I hope I spelt it right).
I have read the rules for 6ed but all the wepons In codex:SM say what I it strikes at
So I was going to do that.
How dose this sound.

The blade of promeethus
R:- S:x2 AP:2 Melee, Two-Handed, Concussive, Great weapon

His other wepon is a melta pistol
R:12 S:8 AP1 melta, pistol

TDA

Mantle of the salamanders
Confurs a 3++ and EW

wargey wrote:
The archamides rex was given to the marines menevolants for helping them.
The only time I have read that all the sallies were fieled in PA was at the battle of comragh (I hope I spelt it right).
I have read the rules for 6ed but all the wepons In codex:SM say what I it strikes at
So I was going to do that.
How dose this sound.

Pretty much half the chapter was in the battle of Commorragh....

The blade of promeethus
R:- S:x2 AP:2 Melee, Two-Handed, Concussive, Great weapon

His other wepon is a melta pistol
R:12 S:8 AP1 melta, pistol

TDA

Mantle of the salamanders
Confurs a 3++ and EW

Now, who is this?

As I've said before. LEAVE THE UNIQUES UNTIL YOU ARE FINISHED WITH THE OTHER RULES!

thats fine but understand in close combat he wont be able to use said melta pistol. He has a two handed weapon which does not allow him to use another weapon while in CC.

Oh ye.
At Commorragh all the firedrakes were in PA but at armageddon most if not all were in TDA.

Captian. 100pts
Same rules as norm
Wargear
Iron halo
Artificer Amour
Chain sword
Bolt pistol or bolt gun
Options
Same as norm
Can take a inferno pistol +10pts
Can take a hand flamer +10pts
May master craft his wepons +15pts

If he wears TDA he can have a squad of TDA inferno gaurd +10ppm

wargey wrote:
Oh ye.
At Commorragh all the firedrakes were in PA but at armageddon most if not all were in TDA.

Captian. 100pts
Same rules as norm
Wargear
Iron halo
Artificer Amour
Chain sword
Bolt pistol or bolt gun
Options
Same as norm
Can take a inferno pistol +10pts
Can take a hand flamer +10pts
May master craft his wepons +15pts

If he wears TDA he can have a squad of TDA inferno gaurd +10ppm

I think he should cost a tiny bit more than standard,. seeing as everything about them is identical BUT he has artificer armor (which is a 2+ save last time I checked) while the normal captain doesn't. Seeing as AA cost +15 points in C:SM, might as well make him 115 base

wargey wrote:
Oh ye.
At Commorragh all the firedrakes were in PA but at armageddon most if not all were in TDA.

Captian. 100pts
Same rules as norm
Wargear
Iron halo
Artificer Amour
Chain sword
Bolt pistol or bolt gun
Options
Same as norm
Can take a inferno pistol +10pts
Can take a hand flamer +10pts
May master craft his wepons +15pts

If he wears TDA he can have a squad of TDA inferno gaurd +10ppm

Since most of us are not exactly sure what you have so far, can you post the units/rules that are done, so we can help with them? We could help better if they were all in one place.

Ok what do you think of the CS option
Thought they were 90 pts
Ok
Base price is 115pts


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ok ill be able to use my laptop in about 15 min so bear whith.

wargey wrote:
Oh ye.
At Commorragh all the firedrakes were in PA but at armageddon most if not all were in TDA.

Captian. 100pts
Same rules as norm
Wargear
Iron halo
Artificer Amour
Chain sword
Bolt pistol or bolt gun
Options
Same as norm
Can take a inferno pistol +10pts
Can take a hand flamer +10pts
May master craft his wepons +15pts

If he wears TDA he can have a squad of TDA inferno gaurd +10ppm

dont give him the artificer armor, and still make him only cost 100 pts, if you do that make him 120 pts

All captians in the sallie army use either AA TDA

wargey wrote:
All captians in the sallie army use either AA TDA

OK, so make him cost 120

 Backspacehacker wrote:

wargey wrote:
Oh ye.
At Commorragh all the firedrakes were in PA but at armageddon most if not all were in TDA.

Captian. 100pts
Same rules as norm
Wargear
Iron halo
Artificer Amour
Chain sword
Bolt pistol or bolt gun
Options
Same as norm
Can take a inferno pistol +10pts
Can take a hand flamer +10pts
May master craft his wepons +15pts

If he wears TDA he can have a squad of TDA inferno gaurd +10ppm

dont give him the artificer armor, and still make him only cost 100 pts, if you do that make him 120 pts

As Wargey said, the blacksmith-esque Salamanders probably do equip their higher ups with relic/well made armour, as they have a lot of it.

Wow, its almost as if you can use already existing rules, wargear, and points costs from other marine codices to make a Sallies army!

In this case, you'd use the Captain entry from the Blood Angels and add in the option for Artificer armour. Alternatively, use the exact same Captain entry from C:SM and add the option for infernus pistol (+15pts) and hand flamer (+10pts). Problem solved! No crazy new rules or wargear options for your opponent to learn and get confused about. No extra effort needed!

You know, I'd go one step further and say that you could actually represent the Salamanders perfectly with C:SM and a few elements of FW, C:BA and some additions from C: DA.

But hey, here's me, just throwing out crazy ideas that will likely get ignored in favour of building something from the ground up that will functionally end up the exact same thing as C:SM with variations, only infinitely more complex.

Amazing what you can do when you think about the easiest way to accomplish something.

 Blacksails wrote:
Wow, its almost as if you can use already existing rules, wargear, and points costs from other marine codices to make a Sallies army!

In this case, you'd use the Captain entry from the Blood Angels and add in the option for Artificer armour. Alternatively, use the exact same Captain entry from C:SM and add the option for infernus pistol (+15pts) and hand flamer (+10pts). Problem solved! No crazy new rules or wargear options for your opponent to learn and get confused about. No extra effort needed!

You know, I'd go one step further and say that you could actually represent the Salamanders perfectly with C:SM and a few elements of FW, C:BA and some additions from C: DA.

But hey, here's me, just throwing out crazy ideas that will likely get ignored in favour of building something from the ground up that will functionally end up the exact same thing as C:SM with variations, only infinitely more complex.

Amazing what you can do when you think about the easiest way to accomplish something.

Dude, no. That's silly.

 McNinja wrote:
Dude, no. That's silly.

As opposed to building a codex for a chapter that is codex adherent, which will inevitably include units that would make up 90% of the current C:SM, while including wargear options and a tank (Baal Pred with flamestorm cannon, without fast) from C: BA, and the option to run an all terminator army a la Deathwing to represent the Firedrakes. Please tell me how not combining those elements in a sensible way will be any different than the inevitable result of what has been brainstormed here.

"I want a captain with flame and melta pistols!" [C: BA wargear]
"I want tanks with flame/melta cannons!" [C: BA and FW for Baal Pred and Pred Infernus from FW]
"I want the ability to make terminators troops to represent the Firedrakes!" [C: DA]
"I want sternguard vets with heavy flamers and combi-flamers!" [Already exists in C"SM]
"I want to limit the use of speeders and bikes!" [Personally limit your army to 0-1 choice for those units]

Did I miss anything? Because honestly, that's all this 'fandex' is. You want Inferno Guard? Take a vanilla marine command squad and give them the option to take flamers or combi-flamers...oh wait, they can already do that.

Fundamentally, all the idea proposed so far can be represented using existing units and picking the appropriate wargear. Or just changing the name. Inferno Guard are easily represented by a vanilla command squad, because that's what the inferno guard are.

The Salamanders don't need a codex. At most, they need 1-3 special characters, namely He'stan, Tu'Shan, and maybe a Chaplain or Librarian. Nothing more. Literally every conceivable option for a Sallies fandex are available by adding one or two wargear options to existing units in C:SM and the using of FW units to fill in the holes.

 Blacksails wrote:

 McNinja wrote:
Dude, no. That's silly.

As opposed to building a codex for a chapter that is codex adherent, which will inevitably include units that would make up 90% of the current C:SM, while including wargear options and a tank (Baal Pred with flamestorm cannon, without fast) from C: BA, and the option to run an all terminator army a la Deathwing to represent the Firedrakes. Please tell me how not combining those elements in a sensible way will be any different than the inevitable result of what has been brainstormed here.

"I want a captain with flame and melta pistols!" [C: BA wargear]
"I want tanks with flame/melta cannons!" [C: BA and FW for Baal Pred and Pred Infernus from FW]
"I want the ability to make terminators troops to represent the Firedrakes!" [C: DA]
"I want sternguard vets with heavy flamers and combi-flamers!" [Already exists in C"SM]
"I want to limit the use of speeders and bikes!" [Personally limit your army to 0-1 choice for those units]

Did I miss anything? Because honestly, that's all this 'fandex' is. You want Inferno Guard? Take a vanilla marine command squad and give them the option to take flamers or combi-flamers...oh wait, they can already do that.

Fundamentally, all the idea proposed so far can be represented using existing units and picking the appropriate wargear. Or just changing the name. Inferno Guard are easily represented by a vanilla command squad, because that's what the inferno guard are.

The Salamanders don't need a codex. At most, they need 1-3 special characters, namely He'stan, Tu'Shan, and maybe a Chaplain or Librarian. Nothing more. Literally every conceivable option for a Sallies fandex are available by adding one or two wargear options to existing units in C:SM and the using of FW units to fill in the holes.

You seemed to have missed the sarcasm in his post (making fun of how stubborn he is)

 washout77 wrote:


You seemed to have missed the sarcasm in his post (making fun of how stubborn he is)

I guess I may have. Well, my point stands for anyone unconvinced of my logic. To McNinja, if you were being sarcastic, I apologize for the response.

Look wargey you have a lott of great stuff up here:

How about you round up the current rules and post them in your original post (under edit.) That way it will be easier for new readers to help you with your codex. :-)

All units so far

Troops
[/spoiler tactical SQ
Same as norm
Wargear as norm
Options
All normal options
Can take 1 hvy flamer per 10 men. +10pts
Can master craft any from the following
Special wepons. +15pts
Hvy wepons. +20pts
CCW. +15pts
Hammers and fists. +20pts
Atificer amour. +25pts
May have promethean brandings. +7ppm

Scouts. 85pts
Veteran sargent
4scouts
Rules as norm
Wargear as norm
Options as norm
Hvy flame. +10
Master crafting. +15 or +20 see tactiacl SQ]


Elites
[/spoiler Firedrakes 245
Ws 4. Bs4. S4. T4. W2. A2. I4. Sv2. LD9+
Same rules as norm
Wargear
Drake cloak 4++ Sv
Can have any from the following
1 or 2 lightining claws
Storm bolter
Thunder hammer
Power fist
Storm shield
Same options as norm
May take 2x combi guns for. +20pts
May master craft any wepons. +20pts
May have promeethean brandings. +7ppm

Stengaurd same points as norm
Same stats as norm
Same rules
Same wargear
May have a inferno pistol or hand flamer. +15pts
A power sword. +15pts
Master craft any wepons. +15pts
May have promeethean brandings. +7ppm
]

Sc
Master Tu'Shan reagent of promeathus 285
Ws5. Bs4. S5. T4. W3. A3. I4. Ld10+
Master of the firedrakes
All firedrakes can be troops
For the imperum
All units of the imperum that can draw line of sight to Tu'Shan becomes stuborn
Atsknf
Stuborn
Wargear
melta pistol
S7 Ap1.
The blade of promeathus
I2 S x2. Ap 2. Concusive Murderous strike.
TDA
The mantle of the salamander's
Confurs a 3++ save. And EW
Promeathean brandings

Mind fixing the "spoilers"? They are confusing now. Also, please list more point costs for firedrakes. Or are ALL those weapon choices free?

 Blacksails wrote:

 washout77 wrote:


You seemed to have missed the sarcasm in his post (making fun of how stubborn he is)

I guess I may have. Well, my point stands for anyone unconvinced of my logic. To McNinja, if you were being sarcastic, I apologize for the response.

Haha I was indeed being sarcastic, but it's all good.

 McNinja wrote:

 Blacksails wrote:

 washout77 wrote:


You seemed to have missed the sarcasm in his post (making fun of how stubborn he is)

I guess I may have. Well, my point stands for anyone unconvinced of my logic. To McNinja, if you were being sarcastic, I apologize for the response.

Haha I was indeed being sarcastic, but it's all good.

Well, now he seems to have at least followed our advice, Or more like you guys' advice.
He's listed the rules and fixed the statlines to match their counterparts.

I don't like the 2W Sv2+/4++ guys though...

I don't even know if they're termies or not. I do presume they are.

 LlamaAgility wrote:

 McNinja wrote:

 Blacksails wrote:

 washout77 wrote:


You seemed to have missed the sarcasm in his post (making fun of how stubborn he is)

I guess I may have. Well, my point stands for anyone unconvinced of my logic. To McNinja, if you were being sarcastic, I apologize for the response.

Haha I was indeed being sarcastic, but it's all good.

Well, now he seems to have at least followed our advice, Or more like you guys' advice.
He's listed the rules and fixed the statlines to match their counterparts.

I don't like the 2W Sv2+/4++ guys though...

I don't even know if they're termies or not. I do presume they are.

What they are is absurd, broken, silly, and not even in conformance with the fluff.

We have repeatedly told him that using already established units in the various codices work flawlessly for a Sallies dex, with almost no alterations needed. But he insists on clearly broken, unbalanced and overcomplicated abominations. His Firedrakes are a perfect example of this. They are, for every intent and purpose, ordinary veterans armed with Terminator armour and hammers and shields. You know, exactly like how C:SM represents them. Crazy.

Thanks for posting this in the first line in your post wargey :-) It makes it mutch easier to see what has come so far.

I would also try to narrow down what units from the regular space marine codex you are going to keep in this codex. Basicly all units that are in regular space marine, blood angels and dark angels should also be in this codex, but not things that only apear in one. Like the thunderfire canon etc. should not be in this codex. This is to not make it to good compared to the regular space marine. I stil feel that salamanders should use the standard space marine codex for fluff reasons, but some cool new units can be interesting.



quote=wargey 492288 5036172 null]All units so far

Troops
tactical SQ
Same as norm
Wargear as norm
Options
All normal options
Can take 1 hvy flamer per 10 men. +10pts
Can master craft any from the following
Special wepons. +15pts
Hvy wepons. +20pts
CCW. +15pts
Hammers and fists. +20pts
Atificer amour. +25pts
May have promethean brandings. +7ppm

Niiai, I would argue that anything goes when making a new codex. You could have an S1 AP 6 melta weapon. Why? Because you can. However...

This is a codex based on a codex astartes-adherent chapter. Following the making something unique while still conforming to the basics shouldn't deter from making something unique. For instance, Vulkan has Chapter Tactics that makes the army unique, with some unique abilities that set it apart from the others, yet all of the units are the same, stat-wise. You could do the same with Tu'Shan. Chapter Tactics or special rules make the army, not new units. Not necessarily, at least.

They do not have a iron halo they have a drake cloak I ment it to be 5++ yes they are termies
The wepons are free
The sargent have atificer amour due to the amount of it they have
Combi bolters I got from B and C
Tu'Shan is almost the size of a primach one of the strongest marines alive
Just because it is caled a blade dose not meen it is a sword a blade could be a sharpend hammer that looks like a blade
I had to nerf the pistol on Tu'Shan
Promeethean branding have a 4+fnp against flamers

Ok whith Tu'Shan
Ws4 Bs4 S4 T4 W4 I4 A3 LD11+

11+ is because he is very inspireing and is known for being bent to protecting humanity so gaurd and marine are inspierd by him

They do not have a iron halo they have a drake cloak I ment it to be 5++ yes they are termies

Not always. Make Firedrakes, Firedrake terminators (normal terminators) and Firedrake assault terminators.
PA Firedrakes should replace sternguard, vanguard or both veterans. Although that would pretty much be a large difference from Codex Astartes so maybe a separate unit.

The sargent have atificer amour due to the amount of it they have

BY THE EMPEROR NO!
They are not Space Wolves, so no 2+ Sv sergeants please.

Just because it is caled a blade dose not meen it is a sword a blade could be a sharpend hammer that looks like a blade

"Sharpened hammer"? As in... A battle axe? Or a pointy hammer?
Hammers are not blades. Do you even KNOW what the word "blade" means?

I had to nerf the pistol on Tu'Shan

No, you had to nerf the person himself and simplify his weapon. Not the bloody pistol.

Ws4 Bs4 S4 T4 W4 I4 A3 LD11+

11+ is because he is very inspireing and is known for being bent to protecting humanity so gaurd and marine are inspierd by him

Now what the feth is this? Your Tu'Shan once again, gained the power of rear-violating game mechanics. Good job pal...

wargey wrote:
They do not have a iron halo they have a drake cloak I ment it to be 5++ yes they are termies
The wepons are free
The sargent have atificer amour due to the amount of it they have
Combi bolters I got from B and C
Tu'Shan is almost the size of a primach one of the strongest marines alive
Just because it is caled a blade dose not meen it is a sword a blade could be a sharpend hammer that looks like a blade
I had to nerf the pistol on Tu'Shan
Promeethean branding have a 4+fnp against flamers

Ok whith Tu'Shan
Ws4 Bs4 S4 T4 W4 I4 A3 LD11+

11+ is because he is very inspireing and is known for being bent to protecting humanity so gaurd and marine are inspierd by him

.....dahell....okay

NO Artificer Sgts! NO! We're not Space Wolves!

"Tu'Shan is almost the size of a primach one of the strongest marines alive" *sniff sniff* Im smelling Bias here. Just because fluff says so, doesn't mean it works in game

"Just because it is caled a blade dose not meen it is a sword a blade could be a sharpend hammer that looks like a blade " Um....that's....a blade is a sword, and usually referring to the sharp part of the sword....sharpened hammers are not blades, they are called something different...just because it has a sharp metal bit, doesn't make it a blade


"Ok whith Tu'Shan
Ws4 Bs4 S4 T4 W4 I4 A3 LD11+

11+ is because he is very inspireing and is known for being bent to protecting humanity so gaurd and marine are inspierd by him"

Okay now you've broke the game. Everything looked ok up until LD11. Like, seriously? Primarchs don't even have LD11! Keep him LD10 if you must, that's still really good.

But really, rethink this a lot. Combined with war-gear, these stats will murder anything. Yeah im sure he could in the fluff, but he could also likely solo my entire IG Infantry Company. So that show's, fluff does not equal game.

Sory I only just relise that no other man has LD11+
Firedrake termies have all options due to them having one termie whith sb pf one with TH/SS one with flamer CF one with pair lighting claws and anouther with TH/SS
He is bloody I4 so I gave him 4W

Ok apart from LlamaAgilty who thinks I should not give my sargents AA
Ok new caracter by the way he is going to be a beast in cc but rubish at range
Sargent prator second in line to regent
Ws5 Bs- S4 T5 I4 A4 W3 LD10+
What do ya think

You honestly don't get it. I'm going to be blunt, because you don't seem to be listening to the actual advice presented in this thread.

You don't need help tweaking anything. You need help understanding the basic fundamentals of what a fan dex should look like. You don't even understand why all marines have nearly identical stat lines and why you should not change that. Leadership values at 11? A sergeant with no BS and T5? Honestly, just stop. Go read through your codex again, and read through all the advice. Take it all in, think about it.

I'm a big Salamander's fan, and you are not doing them justice in the slightest.

So no, Praetor is just wrong. No to BS-, and no to T5. I've explained before why these are bad ideas, and you just ignore them.

Finally, Praetor is in no way second in line to the regent. He is no way shape or form more important than of the Captains in the chapter. He is, afterall, just a sergeant.

That's what I think. Just stop making more stuff before you understand why all your previous stuff is so broken.

He is second in line he has no Bs because he dose not need it as all his wepons are for cc as I stated he is pretty tough
All his buffs will be for CC
How dose this sound
You're defences are your wepons
All units with a SS gain +1A
Rage for each wound he gets +1A
Wargear
TDA
Hammer of the firedrakes
A master crafted thunder hammer
SS
Cloak of the firedrakes
4++ save
Promeethean brandings
May take the fire anvil +150
It has cramite plating
Defencive flame storm cannon