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Hey, I'm new to Warhammer 40k and need some advice. I have the opportunity to get a couple vindicators for my CSM army and 1 for my space wolves army. I'm just curious if they are worth the investment (i was wanting to get whirlwinds and everyone preached about how they are a waste of points) Also if I can get some opinions on them. Are they worth getting and also if so what is the best way to use them tacticly. what are the weaknesses, etc.

They got a lot better in 6th edition with the way blast weapons were buffed.



They can Instant Death T5 or Less at AP 2. They are a hard counter to most "Deathstar" units simply through damage out put. (units like GK Paladins, SW Thunderwolves, Ork Nobs)


They can also deal Damage to tanks well, The template is full strength over the whole blast, so you can place it so it hits 2-3 tanks sometimes, dealing damage to multiple units.



Their biggest flaw is their short range. 24" is not a lot and it puts them into the danger zone fore weapon like Meltaguns.

Also, since they scatter, it is better to try and use 2-3 or them in a list for more consistency.


If you can, try to find a way to funnel your enemy into one spot, then lay down 2-3 blasts on them and watch them evaporate.

They are very dangerous, so they will draw a lot of fire. As such, you need to run two or three of them for them to be worth it. They are a great choice for an agresive army, but a bad one for a gunline.

I use two, with a Mortis Contemptor.

Make sure to get a cover save with the Vindicator. You can easily cover 25% of the tank while also keeping the gun visible.

Not to mention they have to choose between the Mortis Contemptor and Vindicators, a lot of people choose the one with the built in 5+ Invulnerable Save.

Two are a threat, one's just a target.

I run BA so have the luxury that mine are fast, offsetting the range issue somewhat, even if I do pay a premium in points.

However, in a game where versatility is king, they can handle everything from vehicles to all kinds of infantry.

Worth remembering that they have a storm bolter and can purchase another, which is handy for those weapon destroyed rolls.

With coversaves being worse in 6th edition and damadge from the blast on the whole blast and not just the center makes them quite good. They are also very dangersuh to meet no matter what army you are fielding. You do not wang to see them on the table.

So, I'll go ahead and get the two, what about whirlwinds? They are 30 points cheeper with twice the range. Thank you all for all the quick advice!

They are decent against infantry, but they're to fragile unless you're taking something like a Fortress of redemption to block line of sight to it.

Exalbaru wrote:
So, I'll go ahead and get the two, what about whirlwinds? They are 30 points cheeper with twice the range. Thank you all for all the quick advice!

I run 2 with my deathwing army. Theyre fantastic, but I would only get them if you have an army thats going to be in someones face. If you sit back like a gunline, then its probably not a good investment as theyre big enough targets as it is, let alone being the only thing getting close to the enemy.

Whirlwinds are OK, but only really good against armies like nids, blob guard and orks.

Whirlwinds aren't the worst unit in the codex, but they aren't amazing. The real issue is that they are only S5. Any Tau player will tell you that while S5 is good, it isn't great, and unlike the Vindicator it is only really a threat to light infantry. They also compete with Thunderfire Cannons, which also play the anti-infantry role, but do so much more effectively for only a slight increase in points.

What kind of tactics should I run with a couple vindicators? in their face or having razorbacks for distractions? it still seems abstract to me. can a vindicator take out a bastion?

Vindicators have the potential to do great or do very little depending on both scatter and how your opponent perceives them.

For survivability I always run my vindicators in pairs, for both backup and more target saturation

remember you can have a 6" move before you fire the main gun so don't be afraid to hide it behind a building completely for their shooting
and then move it out 6" in your movement phase for a clear firing lane in your turn

Another thing about Vindis is that if you put a SB on the tank a weapon destroyed result is random. I think it's a good investment to keep the big gun alive.

Isn't a storm bolter on the majority of Vindicators by default?

You can then pay points to add on a second storm bolter.

 mrwhoop wrote:
Another thing about Vindis is that if you put a SB on the tank a weapon destroyed result is random. I think it's a good investment to keep the big gun alive.

If you do this or buy the extra storm bolter for it can you fire the main gun and both of them at 6 inches. Also, moving faster than that you wouldnt be able to fire the ordinance weapon from the way i read it but can you fire snapshots on the SB?

Make sure you keep it on the front armor facing. It has AV13 but only 11 on the sides, making it much more vulnerable.

I like to use Rhinos as cover for my Vindicators.

5+ cover save is nothing to sneeze at if no hand ruins/hills are around.

Remember to make use of the searchlights on a Rhino to light up a target for your Vindicator to shoot. Illuminating the Rhino, or the Vindicator which costs 4-5x as much?

You can use a Search Light even if you move 12", and you don't need to hit. Just snap fire the stormbolter at a tank or something, activate the Search Light, then drop a Demolisher Cannon shot out of the darkness.

Just remember, you choose whether or not to activate your searchlight, so it's perfectly viable to keep your Vindicator in the Dark while your Rhinos are giant night lights.

Exalbaru wrote:

 mrwhoop wrote:
Another thing about Vindis is that if you put a SB on the tank a weapon destroyed result is random. I think it's a good investment to keep the big gun alive.

If you do this or buy the extra storm bolter for it can you fire the main gun and both of them at 6 inches. Also, moving faster than that you wouldnt be able to fire the ordinance weapon from the way i read it but can you fire snapshots on the SB?

I believe you can't fire anything else if you fire an ordinance weapon, and to a previous poster my C:SM don't have the SB standard. Not sure about others like CSM (havoc launchers are a buy I think)

Vindicators are best run in multiples. They're very dangerous units, and massive fire magnets. One Vindicator will get popped before it does much of anything. Two might get one through. Three will be a nightmare for your opponent.

 mrwhoop wrote:

Exalbaru wrote:

 mrwhoop wrote:
Another thing about Vindis is that if you put a SB on the tank a weapon destroyed result is random. I think it's a good investment to keep the big gun alive.

If you do this or buy the extra storm bolter for it can you fire the main gun and both of them at 6 inches. Also, moving faster than that you wouldnt be able to fire the ordinance weapon from the way i read it but can you fire snapshots on the SB?

I believe you can't fire anything else if you fire an ordinance weapon, and to a previous poster my C:SM don't have the SB standard. Not sure about others like CSM (havoc launchers are a buy I think)

Ordanance now makes all other weapons on the vehicle snap fire

also CSM don't have an SB standard or as a option whereas all loyalist types do

Thanks again for the advice, everyone is crazy knowledgeable. How is the Predator? It honestly doesnt seem worth it to me. cause upgrade it up to twinlinked lascannons for my space wolves codex makes it 105 pts. but a razorback with twinlinked lascannons is only 75 and can haul troops

Exalbaru wrote:
Thanks again for the advice, everyone is crazy knowledgeable. How is the Predator? It honestly doesnt seem worth it to me. cause upgrade it up to twinlinked lascannons for my space wolves codex makes it 105 pts. but a razorback with twinlinked lascannons is only 75 and can haul troops

Predators are AV13.

I'm not a fan of predators at the moment, because, like you mentioned, if I need more Lascannons, I can put them on Razorbacks. (Though it ruins the cheap transport that is the Rhino >.&gt

I also love Vindicators, which I guess is another reason I don't like the Predator.

if you're running vindicators, then likely your FA/elite slots are going to be your anti transport solutions ala rifle dreads or landspeeders. The auto-las pred (usually the only variant worth fielding) has gotten a boost from the snapshot rules, making it a little more mobile than it used to be.

if you have any fire support TAC squads/sternguard squads/dev squads however, the twin las or las/plas will probably be a better option... maybe... I haven't run anti-tank numbers for the new edition so I'm not sure.

basically both are decent options. the auto las pred is a pretty solid long range anti light tank heavy though

That makes sense, so tank/transport bust with FA and fliers then roll in vindicators. Any other advice is more than welcome.

Trust me, one will just attract fire and die in turn 1. Sometimes thsi happens if you field multiples as well.

Mine rarely survive the past turn 3 intact. yet i still take them becauser they are pretty cheap and, if they do survive, can do serious damage.

Most battle tanks don't survive past turn 3 now from what I've seen.

Vindicators definitely get a lot more attention in this edition of the Codex, to the point where I won't use them. I take obliterators or lascannon havocs in their place.

The main advantage you get with a vindicator is that it's a 20 - 80 points cheaper than the alternatives. I could see myself going that way if I was jonesing for points.

What are they in other army codexes? I only know for space wolves

Im happy to take 1 and let it be a bullet magnet turn 1.

Argument sake lets say it takes the top 2 AT weapons of my opponent allowing 2 rhinos to do their thing.

Sure i would rather it lived but this game is all about being able to win regardless of what you lose.

To my mind the vulnerabilities of vindicators suggest taking multiple increases your reliance on them to provide that capability.

Yes its not replaceable. However plasma cannons do AP2 anti terminator duties well and multimeltas do tanks and fortifications well, so their capabilities can be replaced.

A twin MM suicide speeder is 80 points. A PC in a tac squad is 5. Not saying one equals the other, am saying I dont agree conventional wisdom to always bring 2.

I agree Loricatus.. I only take one too., but that's because my other 2 HS slots all synergize with each other

1 Vindi
1 TFC
1 Mortis Contemptor


What doest his give me?

the vindi:
primary anti TEQ/2+,
secondary: anti-horde, anti-armour.
The mortis:
primary: AA
Secondary: anti TEQ (with kheres), anti-horde, anti-armour
TFC
primary: anti cover save/anti-horde
Secondary: anti teq (wound generator), anti light-armour/skimmers.

Thus each HS slot has something unqiue they add to my army, but can also fill in the other roles of the other HS slots. So If i lose one I'm still for the most part covered. Furthermore the coversave of ruins by the TFC can protect my mortis/vindi more, and both can be repaired by the techmarine. All in all id rather have that than just 3 vindis.