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Made in ie
Hallowed Canoness




Ireland

Those redesign rumors worry me. But let's wait and see until we hear something more substantial, I guess ...

Good luck with the auction! Glad to register the interest of new players in them. What Manchu said is correct - I think people tend to play them for their looks and their fluff, rather than being a "powerful" army. But if you like their design and their story, I do think you will have lots of fun. They're quite nice to paint, too, and the minis have good detail!

Also, I just noticed that on the image I posted earlier, the banner held by one of the girls, depicts another girl, holding another banner...
/weheardyoulikeflags
   
Made in us
[MOD]
Solahma






RVA

 Lynata wrote:
Those redesign rumors worry me.
Don't worry too much. IIRC, even the sleeve drapery rumors did not necessarily come from Jes Goodwin's mouth. I've never heard about the burqa-bedecked Sisters Kanluwen mentioned until this thread.

   
Made in ie
Hallowed Canoness




Ireland

Manchu wrote:Don't worry too much. IIRC, even the sleeve drapery rumors did not necessarily come from Jes Goodwin's mouth. I've never heard about the burqa-bedecked Sisters Kanluwen mentioned until this thread.
Yeah, I think at least half of the rumors are blatant lies made up by some wannabe-insider on the internets, or maybe just the usual game of telephone turning opinions into facts. I recall a huge article about someone who claimed to have seen the finished models and accessories and everything .. and that was .. I dunno, 4 years ago now? Snore.

Still, I'm a bit pessimistic about changes, especially after having seen the evolution of other minis or the fluff. Always expect the worst - that way you cannot be disappointed!
That being said, if push comes to shove, there'll always be eBay and such to complete one's collection, at least if people are fast enough after the new look was revealed.
   
Made in us
Depraved Slaanesh Chaos Lord




Inside Yvraine

They die horribly in basically all of their fluff.

Not sure if that's been mentioned yet.
   
Made in gb
Angelic Adepta Sororitas





They died horribly at Sanctuary 101 and there is a piece about a small group dying on Armageddon, but other than that (and the story that shall not be named in the Grey Knights book) I can't remember any other stories of them being massacred.
   
Made in us
Depraved Slaanesh Chaos Lord




Inside Yvraine

Most recently, they got lolMurdered (and eaten, literally) by Nurgle-infected orks. After the Orks were done eating them, Mortarion himself arrived and killed the survivors to a man... er, woman.

A bit older than that, there's a short story written by ADB where a Flesh Tearer on Armageddon goes apeshit and embarks on a slaughter-spree, with a squad of sisters being his his first targets

The Black Library, and GW themselves, has not been kind to the Sisters. Cue Lynata:.

   
Made in us
Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor






Gathering the Informations.

 Manchu wrote:
 Lynata wrote:
Those redesign rumors worry me.
Don't worry too much. IIRC, even the sleeve drapery rumors did not necessarily come from Jes Goodwin's mouth. I've never heard about the burqa-bedecked Sisters Kanluwen mentioned until this thread.

Actually, they all come from Jes Goodwin's mouth.

The sleeve drapery bit came from Games Day UK when the Dark Eldar were released.

It's not a "burqa", by the by. Muslin is a type of fabric and from what I understand the sculptors are moving towards concealing faces as much as possible for generic infantry, with unique helmets for the veteran troop types.
   
Made in eu
Hallowed Canoness




Ireland

Reportedly by Jes' mouth. Aka, heard from "a guy who supposedly went there and asked him". That doesn't really make it much better.
Also, from how I recall those reports, Jes supposedly merely said that the sleeves provided unique difficulties in making new minis. That does not mean they were abolished. Classic example for the rumour mill at work once again.

And no, not all of these rumours originate by Jes in any way. The bit about the hoods, for example, was by someone who claimed he was visiting the GW HQ and basically saw them lying around on a table, way before Games Day.

I did follow the rumours myself, y'know, having somewhat of a vested interest in the topic.

I'm still expecting the worst, but really, half the rumours floating around ... anyone remember the fake Codex excerpts? Goes to show how far some people are willing to go.

BlaxicanX wrote:The Black Library, and GW themselves, has not been kind to the Sisters. Cue Lynata:.
Heh, it's true - the Sisters being GW's "whipping girls" has been a long-standing cliché of 40k. I suppose one could argue it is part of the martyr theme they have going on, although I'd say it could deserve some scaling down.

Fortunately, it's not all that bad and there is a good deal of studio fluff where they win, or where their deaths at least buy crucial time for something rather than simply getting mowed down for nothing. As is usual with Sororitas fluff, you just have to look around a lot as it's scattered all over the place, sometimes in an old issue of White Dwarf, other times in an archived website ...
   
Made in us
Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor






Gathering the Informations.

 Lynata wrote:
Reportedly by Jes' mouth. Aka, heard from "a guy who supposedly went there and asked him". That doesn't really make it much better.
Also, from how I recall those reports, Jes supposedly merely said that the sleeves provided unique difficulties in making new minis. That does not mean they were abolished. Classic example for the rumour mill at work once again.

And no, not all of these rumours originate by Jes in any way. The bit about the hoods, for example, was by someone who claimed he was visiting the GW HQ and basically saw them lying around on a table, way before Games Day.

Not everyone who "hears things" talks to the rumormongers, and not everyone who "hears things" talks about it on forums.

Food for thought.
The hood thing actually did originate from Jes, by the by. There was (reputedly) some discussion about whether they should retain the kind of coal-scuttle helmet or if they should get something unique instead. Jes had said that he did some hooded/veiled heads and liked the way they looked.


I'm still expecting the worst, but really, half the rumours floating around ... anyone remember the fake Codex excerpts? Goes to show how far some people are willing to go.

"Fake Codex excerpts" are not the same as someone passing along what he's been hearing from a reliable source.
   
Made in eu
Hallowed Canoness




Ireland

Kanluwen wrote:The hood thing actually did originate from Jes, by the by. There was (reputedly) some discussion about whether they should retain the kind of coal-scuttle helmet or if they should get something unique instead. Jes had said that he did some hooded/veiled heads and liked the way they looked.
And the source of this would be ...?

Me, I'm referring to stuff like this: http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/archive/index.php/t-14358.html

Kanluwen wrote:"Fake Codex excerpts" are not the same as someone passing along what he's been hearing from a reliable source.
The degree of reliability obviously being in the eye of the beholder.

If everyone here would only pass along what they hear from "a reliable source", the forum would have a lot less posts. Food for thought as well.
   
Made in us
Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor






Gathering the Informations.

BOLS is the water cooler of the Internets.
   
Made in eu
Hallowed Canoness




Ireland

Maybe, but it still got dragged into the rumor thread on dakka. Tis how the internet works, apparently.
   
Made in us
[MOD]
Solahma






RVA

 Lynata wrote:
Always expect the worst - that way you cannot be disappointed!
Are you sure you don't favor DKoK over SoB?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
BlaxicanX wrote:
A bit older than that, there's a short story written by ADB where a Flesh Tearer on Armageddon goes apeshit and embarks on a slaughter-spree, with a squad of sisters being his his first targets
What is the name of that story and in what book was it published?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Kanluwen wrote:
 Manchu wrote:
 Lynata wrote:
Those redesign rumors worry me.
Don't worry too much. IIRC, even the sleeve drapery rumors did not necessarily come from Jes Goodwin's mouth. I've never heard about the burqa-bedecked Sisters Kanluwen mentioned until this thread.
Actually, they all come from Jes Goodwin's mouth.

The sleeve drapery bit came from Games Day UK when the Dark Eldar were released.

It's not a "burqa", by the by. Muslin is a type of fabric and from what I understand the sculptors are moving towards concealing faces as much as possible for generic infantry, with unique helmets for the veteran troop types.
Thanks for deeply underestimating my intelligence.

Someone posting on the internet reported that Jes Goodwin said X,Y,Z. Others have contradicted that story. I am not saying the story is false; merely that it is one among many stories in the long history of spurious Sisters rumors.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/12/04 15:42:12


   
Made in gb
Ichor-Dripping Talos Monstrosity






tonyneedspills23 wrote:well its going to be really hard to make an army i want one but i dont see myself making more then 1000 points without another 1000 i just dont see how somone would have that many points

2000 points isn't that many, and your 'standard game' range is 1500-2000pts
Your average 1500pt army is generally going to be a HQ or two, 2-4 Troops units, then 2-6 units for flavour, with 2000pts often only adding 2-4 units.
My 'standard' 1500pt Dark Eldar list is 43 models, the 2000pt list being 49.
My 'standard' 1500pt Tau list is 55 models, the 2000pt list being 79.
My 'standard' 1500pt Chaos Space Marines list is 30 models, the 2000pt list will be 42-43.

Points is a relative term, based on unit cost which can be affected by wargear and special rules.
The proposed Sisters of Battle List I'm looking at doing next year, will be roughly 50-60 models and roughly 2000pts. And that one's kinda silly (30 Repentia, 2 Battle Sisters Squads, and as many Penitent Engines as I can fit in) more 'sensible' lists can range anything from 30 to 90 models.
And my complete collection is just over 18,000 points and a total of 550 models (averaging 32.76 points a model). (Yes, this is a bit crazy, but I'm ok with that xD)

   
Made in us
Guard Heavy Weapon Crewman




Norfolk, VA

 Still Standing wrote:
They died horribly at Sanctuary 101 and there is a piece about a small group dying on Armageddon, but other than that (and the story that shall not be named in the Grey Knights book) I can't remember any other stories of them being massacred.


The Sons of Malice kill and eat a strike force of Celestians in Index Astartes IV.
Sabtec of the Word Bearers fondly reminisces about his Coterie (~10 guys) flaying and crucifying an entire convent of Sisters in Dark Creed.
Three entire orders are trashed by the Space Wolves in Codex: Space Wolves.
Warmaster Varan mind-controls an entire convent on Masada in Cain's Last Stand. (They later go insane and commit suicide.)

Plus the three that you mentioned. That's just the ones I'm aware of; I've seen more cited but I dunno what the sources are for them. I suspect there are more - Sisters are a popular choice for authors to massacre when they want to use the Worf Effect to show just how tough a new bad guy is.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/12/04 17:15:03


"Some people did not like this ceremonious style. But after all when you have to kill a man it costs nothing to be polite." - Winston Churchill
"My way of joking is to tell the truth. It's the funniest joke in the world." - George Bernard Shaw
 
   
Made in us
[MOD]
Solahma






RVA

 Genosaurer wrote:
Warmaster Varan mind-controls an entire convent on Masada in Cain's Last Stand.
At this point, I am inured to Sisters Snuff and the only thing that really irritates me about any of the examples you posted is that some jumped traitor guardsman would dare style himself Warmaster.

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Still Standing wrote:
They died horribly at Sanctuary 101 and there is a piece about a small group dying on Armageddon, but other than that (and the story that shall not be named in the Grey Knights book) I can't remember any other stories of them being massacred.


*The Siege of Vraks
*Mortarion massacred a group of SoB on Sanctia in 6th ed Chaos Codex

SoB are the whipping boys (girlz) of 40k. Next Ward will probably say they secretly wish to be Ultramarines.

My Armies:
5,500pts
2,700pts
2,000pts


 
   
Made in us
[MOD]
Solahma






RVA

GK more likely.

   
Made in gb
Dispassionate Imperial Judge






HATE Club, East London

As another guide to points, my go-to Sisters list has around 35 actual Sisters at 1500pts. They are all variations on the basic list below...

* Uriah Jacobus with Battle Conclave
* Kyrinov with Battle Conclave
* 10 Battle Sisters, Repressor
* 10 Battle Sisters, Repressor
* 5 Dominions, Immolator
* 5 Dominions, Immolator
* 5 Retributors
* Exorcist
* Exorcist

My army is actually Arbites, but if it was using Sisters models, there would only be 35 in there, and that could be less with another Exorcist, some allies, etc etc...

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/12/04 18:26:20


   
Made in eu
Hallowed Canoness




Ireland

Genosaurer wrote:The Sons of Malice kill and eat a strike force of Celestians in Index Astartes IV.
Sabtec of the Word Bearers fondly reminisces about his Coterie (~10 guys) flaying and crucifying an entire convent of Sisters in Dark Creed.
Three entire orders are trashed by the Space Wolves in Codex: Space Wolves.
Warmaster Varan mind-controls an entire convent on Masada in Cain's Last Stand. (They later go insane and commit suicide.)
To be fair, the debacle with the Sons of Malice seemed kind of deserved - the Inquisitor acted too rashly and assembled too small a force. I also remember that the three "entire Orders" (which can mean anything from 300 to 15.000 Sisters, depending on whether we're talking Minor or Major Orders) were not "trashed" but rather ordered to withdraw after a couple weeks of fighting. Small but important difference.

The rest is probably spot-on, if only because I do not trust Mitchell with delivering an interpretation of the Sororitas that is close to what we know from GW fluff.

Genosaurer wrote:I suspect there are more - Sisters are a popular choice for authors to massacre when they want to use the Worf Effect to show just how tough a new bad guy is.
I guess that's true. Unfortunately, Sisters are the perfect choice for when you need a strong antagonist who few people will have an issue with if they get totally pwned. Random Guard regiment would not be regarded as a difficult-enough challenge, and the Sisters' lack of popularity makes them much more "expendable" than a Marine Chapter (I remember the "recent" outrage from that novel excerpt about Dark Angels vs Cultists that was published in WD).

Vicious cycle. No wonder they have few fans if that is all that 90% of the gamers ever see of them.

Good thing there are some excellent exceptions that are somewhat more in line with the general description from the Codex material, although most of those are found in GW's own material rather than the licensed fiction. Probably because it's the same people, though Andy Hoare leaving the company sadly resulted in a notable decline in SoB stuff coming from that direction (from "little" to "almost none"). Let's see what the future holds, though. At least they are back in the limelight now and occupy a few pages on their own in the 6E rulebook. More than we got for almost 10 years by now.
   
Made in us
Guard Heavy Weapon Crewman




Norfolk, VA

 Lynata wrote:
I also remember that the three "entire Orders" (which can mean anything from 300 to 15.000 Sisters, depending on whether we're talking Minor or Major Orders) were not "trashed" but rather ordered to withdraw after a couple weeks of fighting. Small but important difference.


The Space Wolves are usually presented as having a total strength of less than 12,000 men. (Given that each Great Company is nearly the size of a typical Codex-compliant chapter.) Subtract from that any of their forces that were deployed to any of a dozen active warzones across the Imperium. They don't appear to maintain any kind of supplemental PDF forces on Fenris, either. The fact that there were still Space Wolves left to fight three weeks after the invasion is pretty damning in and of itself.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2012/12/04 20:03:50


"Some people did not like this ceremonious style. But after all when you have to kill a man it costs nothing to be polite." - Winston Churchill
"My way of joking is to tell the truth. It's the funniest joke in the world." - George Bernard Shaw
 
   
Made in us
Depraved Slaanesh Chaos Lord




Inside Yvraine

I really wish the Marines vs. Cultists thing would stop being brought up as some example of Marine fanboy qq. That fluff is the equivalent of seeing a squad of Cannonesses get murdered by a single guardsmen armed with only a beer bottle.

It isn't a matter of fanboyism, or not wanting to see Marines lose. Even the most diehard Marine hater will admit that a space marine getting, literally, physically overpowered by a couple of cultists, pinned to the ground, and shanked to death with a knife, is crap.
   
Made in eu
Hallowed Canoness




Ireland

Genosaurer wrote:The Space Wolves are usually presented as having a total strength of less than 12,000 men. (Given that each Great Company is nearly the size of a typical Codex-compliant chapter.)
I have no idea where you picked this up (Black Library novel?), but ...

"The Great Company of Ragnar Blackmane is second only to Logan Grimnar's, boasting almost two hundred battle-hardened warriors and led by perhaps the most talented Wolf Lord of all."
- 5E C:SW

Genosaurer wrote:Subtract from that any of their forces that were deployed to any of a dozen active warzones across the Imperium. They don't appear to maintain any kind of supplemental PDF forces on Fenris, either. The fact that there were still Space Wolves left to fight three weeks after the invasion is pretty damning in and of itself.
It is damning only insofar in that it continues the boring legacy of SW Plot Armour. When the Space Wolves were able to defend their world against the full might of the Segmentum Pacificus Navy and the millions upon millions of Guardsmen that Bucharis threw at them, I am not surprised at all that a couple hundred or thousand Sisters of Battle do not pose any sort of threat, regardless of how often this number suffices to purge any other Space Marine Chapter. Space Wolves just seem to be Marines +1. I have no idea why people complain about the Ultras.

But yes, Fenris does have a PDF. Its native population, all living in warrior tribes on a naturally hostile world. Their willingness to defend their superhuman masters against invaders was demonstrated during Bucharis' siege, too.

Also...

"The resultant war lasts for three weeks before the Ecclesiarchy decides to let sleeping dogs lie and withdraws its forces."
- 5E C:SW

I would assume that the ability to withdraw anything pretty much rules out these forces being "trashed in entirety".

BlaxicanX wrote:I really wish the Marines vs. Cultists thing would stop being brought up as some example of Marine fanboy qq. That fluff is the equivalent of seeing a squad of Cannonesses get murdered by a single guardsmen armed with only a beer bottle.
It isn't a matter of fanboyism, or not wanting to see Marines lose. Even the most diehard Marine hater will admit that a space marine getting, literally, physically overpowered by a couple of cultists, pinned to the ground, and shanked to death with a knife, is crap.
It is fitting as an example when we consider that we did indeed have Black Library novels where a single Storm Trooper murders his way through a whole convent of Sisters to shoot the Canoness. ("Redemption Hour") The difference is that, whatever we think about whether or not the portrayal in the Cultist story was accurate, it was an exception from the rule (and instantly triggered the "Marine fanboy QQ" you mentioned), whereas the general populace has apparently accepted this sort of stuff happening to Sisters.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2012/12/04 20:33:01


 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




 Kanluwen wrote:
BOLS is the water cooler of the Internets.

Actually, that is 4chan.
   
Made in gb
Dispassionate Imperial Judge






HATE Club, East London

I imagine it's going to be pretty hard for the OP to find useful information in amongst all the off-topic arguments about how GW have portrayed Sisters, Space Wolves and Cultists....

:/

   
Made in us
Depraved Slaanesh Chaos Lord




Inside Yvraine

 Lynata wrote:
It is fitting as an example when we consider that we did indeed have Black Library novels where a single Storm Trooper murders his way through a whole convent of Sisters to shoot the Canoness. ("Redemption Hour")
And that's stupid and doesn't make any sense. Stupid fluff does't justify stupid fluff, though. You would be right in being outraged by a stormtrooper murdering his way through a covenent of sisters.

The difference is that, whatever we think about whether or not the portrayal in the Cultist story was accurate, it was an exception from the rule (and instantly triggered the "Marine fanboy QQ" you mentioned), whereas the general populace has apparently accepted this sort of stuff happening to Sisters.


They aren't comparable because the majority of the Sisters defeats aren't "exceptions to the rule". Say what you want about GW/BL hating sisters, obviously Sororitas genocide is funny to them, but at least when they lose, their defeat is logical and accurate to the fluff. There is no shame in getting killed to a man by Necrons; there is no shame in getting killed by a beserk Flesh Tearers captain, or the Space Wolves, or Grey Knights, or fething Mortarion. Those are all scenarios where the sisters, even on their best days, would have been hard pressed to win.

Space Marines getting physically beaten to death by unenhanced cultists armed with autoguns and knives is something else entirely.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/12/04 22:13:42


 
   
Made in us
[MOD]
Solahma






RVA

Of course, when Sisters get handled by a single storm trooper only Sisters fans complain ... /speakingasone

   
Made in us
Depraved Slaanesh Chaos Lord




Inside Yvraine

I'd never even heard of that until Lynata mentioned it just now. Haven't even heard of Redemption Hour, tbh.
   
Made in us
[MOD]
Solahma






RVA

I think she meant Redemption Corps.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 ArbitorIan wrote:
the off-topic arguments about how GW have portrayed Sisters
In a thread titled "Sisters of Battle fluff," discussion of how GW have portrayed Sisters is hardly off-topic -- even if it does entail some comparison to other factions.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/12/04 22:44:15


   
Made in gb
Dispassionate Imperial Judge






HATE Club, East London

 ArbitorIan wrote:
the off-topic arguments about how GW have portrayed Sisters
In a thread titled "Sisters of Battle fluff," discussion of how GW have portrayed Sisters is hardly off-topic -- even if it does entail some comparison to other factions.


Well that depends on how constructive it is. The majority of this thread is the same few people arguing, without referencing the OP at all any more. The OP, who is new to Sister fluff, now has to trawl through all these very in depth arguents to find anything directed at them.


   
 
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