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2012/12/03 16:50:31
Subject: Rapid Fire and Charge
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Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot
In the warp, searching for Marbo
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I'm a little confused on this. The rules say that Rapid Fire weapons cannot charge if they've been shot.
What I'm think is; Can you charge if you don't use rapid fire, and just single shot.
Example: Guardsmen unit does not use the rapid shots ability of 2 shots (or is to far too), and instead shoots single shots all of them.
Could they charge after only making Single Shots? Just need this little annoyance cleared up.
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After all these years of searching for Marbo...he found me. Heretics beware! He's back! |
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2012/12/03 16:53:00
Subject: Rapid Fire and Charge
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The Hive Mind
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You can't choose to fire 2 shots or not - if it's a Rapid Fire weapon and it fires, you can't charge. If your target is under 12" you fire twice.
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My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals.
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2012/12/03 16:53:57
Subject: Re:Rapid Fire and Charge
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Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot
In the warp, searching for Marbo
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thanks
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After all these years of searching for Marbo...he found me. Heretics beware! He's back! |
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2012/12/03 16:54:56
Subject: Re:Rapid Fire and Charge
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Plummeting Black Templar Thunderhawk Pilot
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Edited since he beat me to it
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/12/03 16:55:59
 Black Templars 4000   Deathwatch 6000
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0001/12/03 16:56:21
Subject: Rapid Fire and Charge
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Lieutenant General
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 Guardsmen Bob wrote:I'm a little confused on this. The rules say that Rapid Fire weapons cannot charge if they've been shot.
What I'm think is; Can you charge if you don't use rapid fire, and just single shot.
Example: Guardsmen unit does not use the rapid shots ability of 2 shots (or is to far too), and instead shoots single shots all of them.
Could they charge after only making Single Shots? Just need this little annoyance cleared up.
First of all, you don't have a choice to fire a single shot. You fire at the full rate for the range. Secondly, you can't assault after firing a rapid fire weapon at all regardless of how many shots were fired.
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'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents
cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty
Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim |
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2012/12/03 17:53:25
Subject: Rapid Fire and Charge
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Pyro Pilot of a Triach Stalker
Somewhere over the rainbow, way up high
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Unless you can find a way to make them relentless, no, you cannot use a rapid fire weapon and then charge.
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Bedouin Dynasty:  10000 pts
The Silver Lances:  4000 pts
The Custodes Winter Watch 4000 pts
MajorStoffer wrote:
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Sternguard though, those guys are all about kicking ass. They'd chew bubble gum as well, but bubble gum is heretical. Only tau chew gum. |
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2012/12/03 18:07:19
Subject: Rapid Fire and Charge
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Regular Dakkanaut
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rigeld2 wrote:You can't choose to fire 2 shots or not - if it's a Rapid Fire weapon and it fires, you can't charge. If your target is under 12" you fire twice.
Half distance, as Tau rifles are 30" max range.
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2012/12/03 18:12:56
Subject: Rapid Fire and Charge
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Lieutenant General
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Yes, that is a change from 3rd through 5th to 6th edition.
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'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents
cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty
Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim |
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2012/12/03 18:13:12
Subject: Rapid Fire and Charge
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The Hive Mind
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FenixZero wrote:rigeld2 wrote:You can't choose to fire 2 shots or not - if it's a Rapid Fire weapon and it fires, you can't charge. If your target is under 12" you fire twice.
Half distance, as Tau rifles are 30" max range.
Right, thanks. I keep forgetting about them and their dirty cheating ways.
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My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals.
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2012/12/04 15:32:43
Subject: Rapid Fire and Charge
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Dakka Veteran
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If they've got laspistols, you can shoot those.
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2012/12/04 15:35:09
Subject: Rapid Fire and Charge
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Nasty Nob on Warbike with Klaw
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Or bolt pistols, or any assault weapon, or don't fire any.
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2012/12/04 15:35:29
Subject: Rapid Fire and Charge
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Nasty Nob on Warbike with Klaw
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Most Guardsman don't get a laspistol sadly, they're reserved for officers.
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2012/12/04 15:49:21
Subject: Rapid Fire and Charge
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Captain of the Forlorn Hope
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Guardsmen Bob wrote:I'm a little confused on this. The rules say that Rapid Fire weapons cannot charge if they've been shot.
What I'm think is; Can you charge if you don't use rapid fire, and just single shot.
Example: Guardsmen unit does not use the rapid shots ability of 2 shots (or is to far too), and instead shoots single shots all of them.
Could they charge after only making Single Shots? Just need this little annoyance cleared up.
Part of the issue here is that people persist in the belief that 'rapid fire' is a mode of fire, It's not.
'Rapid Fire' is a type of weapon. That weapon fires one shot at long range, or two shots at short range. Firing two shots is not 'rapid firing'... it is firing two shots. The weapon is always rapid firing. That's why it is called a 'rapid fire' weapon.
You do not "Rapid fire" the weapon. Just like you do not Heavy a Missile Launcher.
Instead of calling it 'Rapid Firing' call it 'Double Tap' it will confuse less people.
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"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.
I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!
We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
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2012/12/04 15:52:09
Subject: Rapid Fire and Charge
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Nasty Nob on Warbike with Klaw
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 DeathReaper wrote: Guardsmen Bob wrote:I'm a little confused on this. The rules say that Rapid Fire weapons cannot charge if they've been shot.
What I'm think is; Can you charge if you don't use rapid fire, and just single shot.
Example: Guardsmen unit does not use the rapid shots ability of 2 shots (or is to far too), and instead shoots single shots all of them.
Could they charge after only making Single Shots? Just need this little annoyance cleared up.
Part of the issue here is that people persist in the belief that 'rapid fire' is a mode of fire, It's not.
'Rapid Fire' is a type of weapon. That weapon fires one shot at long range, or two shots at short range. Firing two shots is not 'rapid firing'... it is firing two shots. The weapon is always rapid firing. That's why it is called a 'rapid fire' weapon.
You do not "Rapid fire" the weapon. Just like you do not Heavy a Missile Launcher.
Instead of calling it 'Rapid Firing' call it 'Double Tap' it will confuse less people.
It kind of is a mode of fire. It's just not an optional mode.
The closes example I can think of though is GK have an assault2 or Heavy4.
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2012/12/04 16:19:57
Subject: Rapid Fire and Charge
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Captain of the Forlorn Hope
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It is not a mode of fire, it is a weapon property.
Some weapons are Assault (#), Some are Heavy (#), some are Rapid fire, some are Pistol.
The closest thing to a mode of fire would be Stearnguard special ammo, where it has different effects.
You do not "Rapid fire"a Bolter. Just like you do not Assault a Stormbolter
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"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.
I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!
We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
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2012/12/04 16:24:33
Subject: Rapid Fire and Charge
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Noise Marine Terminator with Sonic Blaster
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OK. Follow up question of a similar nature:
I have sonic blasters that are salvo 2/3. That basically means they are rapid fire / heavy 3. If I move, I can shoot twice at 12". If I stay still, I can shoot 3 times at 24".
But, would I also be able to move and snap shot 3 shots at 24"? I am not sure if the salvo rules allow for this. And, if this is allowed, can they assault after that? I think the ruling would be no as well, but I might as well confirm.
Thanks in advance.
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2012/12/04 16:27:02
Subject: Rapid Fire and Charge
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The Hive Mind
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You can never opt to shoot snap shots. And even if you could, you wouldn't be allowed to charge as you fired a Heavy weapon.
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My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals.
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2012/12/04 16:34:50
Subject: Rapid Fire and Charge
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Killer Klaivex
Oceanside, CA
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 grendel083 wrote:Most Guardsman don't get a laspistol sadly, they're reserved for officers.
All guardsmen own laspistols, they just 'forget' them at home. Otherwise the commissar might make they assault the enemy.
-Matt
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2012/12/04 17:00:16
Subject: Rapid Fire and Charge
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Incorporating Wet-Blending
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 Green is Best! wrote:OK. Follow up question of a similar nature:
I have sonic blasters that are salvo 2/3. That basically means they are rapid fire / heavy 3.
Incorrect. It is a salvo weapon, it has it's own rules and restrictions.
But, would I also be able to move and snap shot 3 shots at 24"? I am not sure if the salvo rules allow for this. And, if this is allowed, can they assault after that?
And this is why it's best not to equate Salvo to any other weapon type, it just gets confusing.
BGB pg 13 wrote:Whether a model has moved or not can make a big difference to
its ability to fire. Some guns are so heavy that they can only be
used effectively if their firer halts completely to brace himself
or set up his weapon on the ground. This is explained in more
detail in the Weapons section (pg. 50).
If Salvo doesn't say you may fire snapshots then you may not.
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Mannahnin wrote:A lot of folks online (and in emails in other parts of life) use pretty mangled English. The idea is that it takes extra effort and time to write properly, and they’d rather save the time. If you can still be understood, what’s the harm? While most of the time a sloppy post CAN be understood, the use of proper grammar, punctuation, and spelling is generally seen as respectable and desirable on most forums. It demonstrates an effort made to be understood, and to make your post an easy and pleasant read. By making this effort, you can often elicit more positive responses from the community, and instantly mark yourself as someone worth talking to.
insaniak wrote: Every time someone threatens violence over the internet as a result of someone's hypothetical actions at the gaming table, the earth shakes infinitisemally in its orbit as millions of eyeballs behind millions of monitors all roll simultaneously.
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2012/12/04 17:26:14
Subject: Rapid Fire and Charge
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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 Lordhat wrote:
If Salvo doesn't say you may fire snapshots then you may not.
No weapon entry says it can fire snapshots.
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2012/12/04 18:00:54
Subject: Re:Rapid Fire and Charge
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Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot
In the warp, searching for Marbo
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Speaking of Snapshots, do weapons like Heavy 3, or assault 2 and the such take multiple snap shots, or just one?
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After all these years of searching for Marbo...he found me. Heretics beware! He's back! |
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2012/12/04 18:06:04
Subject: Re:Rapid Fire and Charge
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Lieutenant General
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Guardsmen Bob wrote:Speaking of Snapshots, do weapons like Heavy 3, or assault 2 and the such take multiple snap shots, or just one?
Snap shots do not affect the weapon's rate of fire, just the Ballistic Skill.
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'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents
cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty
Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim |
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2012/12/04 18:14:02
Subject: Re:Rapid Fire and Charge
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Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot
In the warp, searching for Marbo
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Cool, thanks again. That'll make my brother think twice about chargin' a wall of Lasguns. 
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After all these years of searching for Marbo...he found me. Heretics beware! He's back! |
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2012/12/04 22:24:02
Subject: Rapid Fire and Charge
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Incorporating Wet-Blending
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I never once mentioned the weapon entry. However, the rules for the weapon type, which I did mention, will tell you exactly how you may fire it in regards to moving.
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Mannahnin wrote:A lot of folks online (and in emails in other parts of life) use pretty mangled English. The idea is that it takes extra effort and time to write properly, and they’d rather save the time. If you can still be understood, what’s the harm? While most of the time a sloppy post CAN be understood, the use of proper grammar, punctuation, and spelling is generally seen as respectable and desirable on most forums. It demonstrates an effort made to be understood, and to make your post an easy and pleasant read. By making this effort, you can often elicit more positive responses from the community, and instantly mark yourself as someone worth talking to.
insaniak wrote: Every time someone threatens violence over the internet as a result of someone's hypothetical actions at the gaming table, the earth shakes infinitisemally in its orbit as millions of eyeballs behind millions of monitors all roll simultaneously.
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2012/12/04 22:42:43
Subject: Rapid Fire and Charge
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Lordhat wrote:
I never once mentioned the weapon entry. However, the rules for the weapon type, which I did mention, will tell you exactly how you may fire it in regards to moving.
Fair enough, but does that mean that Assault weapons cannot be fired as snap shots? What about Rapid Fire weapons or Pistols for that matter?
Neither of those weapon TYPES say they can be fired as Snapshots.
My point is that SNAPSHOTS is placed on the Model not the Weapon. Some exceptions exists obviously, templates, blast, etc
But generally speaking, all ranged weapons can be snap fired, unless something says you can't.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/12/04 22:45:50
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2012/12/04 23:14:39
Subject: Rapid Fire and Charge
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Incorporating Wet-Blending
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I admit I was wrong in the sense of "no snapshots ever". However when taken in context of the OP's question which revolved around moving and shooting it should become clearer.
EDIT: And by OP I meant the post I quoted which started this whole back and forth.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/12/04 23:16:34
Mannahnin wrote:A lot of folks online (and in emails in other parts of life) use pretty mangled English. The idea is that it takes extra effort and time to write properly, and they’d rather save the time. If you can still be understood, what’s the harm? While most of the time a sloppy post CAN be understood, the use of proper grammar, punctuation, and spelling is generally seen as respectable and desirable on most forums. It demonstrates an effort made to be understood, and to make your post an easy and pleasant read. By making this effort, you can often elicit more positive responses from the community, and instantly mark yourself as someone worth talking to.
insaniak wrote: Every time someone threatens violence over the internet as a result of someone's hypothetical actions at the gaming table, the earth shakes infinitisemally in its orbit as millions of eyeballs behind millions of monitors all roll simultaneously.
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