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JEFFERSON CITY, Mo. (AP) - An incoming Missouri Democratic lawmaker is trying to stop "Black Friday" shopping from ruining the Thanksgiving dinners of workers.
Jeff Roorda, of Barnhart, plans to file legislation that would prohibit retail stores from opening on Thanksgiving.
He has dubbed it the "Thanksgiving Family Protection Act." He says the holiday should be about families and not about profit or greed. He says Thanksgiving should not become "Black Friday eve."
Restaurants, gas stations and drug stores would be exempt from forced closure. Roorda says some other states also require businesses to close on that day.
He says retailers' efforts to lure customers have left fewer hours for workers to spend time with their families on Thanksgiving.
(Copyright 2012 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.)
Yeah, better not allow workers to have a less miserable life. MORE PAIN FOR EVERYONE!
Also, black friday =/= thanksgiving.
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I can defintly get behind banning certain hours. It is a national holiday.
Perhaps they should clarify that you can't have mandatory work hours before 5am on Black Friday morning.
So you can open early for Black Friday, like 11pm on Thursday, but it would count as Overtime and workers would have to volunteer to work those hours.
Prevent the stores from cutting their employees holiday short, but if the Employees are willing to do it nothing should stop them.
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Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
Well, the liquor stores being closed on Sundays up here comes down from the blue laws, no?
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No kidding! Having to settle for chugging a beer is just not the same. At least we're better off than those poor folks in MA.
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Peregrine wrote: Yeah, better not allow workers to have a less miserable life. MORE PAIN FOR EVERYONE!
Well, my immediate counter to that is that in a free economy, the workers are free to simply leave their jobs and find ones they consider less onerous. There is no contract required to work at Target or Walmart, and it's not the proper role of the state to regulate employee morale, so to speak.
The counterpoint to this will obviously be that the state already does plenty of regulating of private business; at least some of which was at public demand; such as OSHA and minimum wage laws and overtime pay and workmans comp and no children mining coal. And; I gotta say, I don't have a really good counter to that.
I still think this might be a bridge too far though. I also had to work on Thanksgiving for about 4 hours, and while I wasn't happy with it, I don't want a government official telling me I can't, either. But, you know, I get doubletime on holidays and Target employees don't so their mileage probably varies.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/12/05 13:33:30
lord_blackfang wrote: Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote: The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
My entire family has jobs that don't get holidays off so we tend to just celebrate on the weekend before or after. I always volunteer for extra holidays shifts because its basically 2x pay. Sweet sweet overtime... How I adore thee...
Well, my immediate counter to that is that in a free economy, the workers are free to simply leave their jobs and find ones they consider less onerous. There is no contract required to work at Target or Walmart, and it's not the proper role of the state to regulate employee morale, so to speak.
However it is the proper role of the state to regulate public safety, which Black Friday has clearly been shown to compromise.
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh.
Last year I worked black friday in a big box store.
I had to be in work for 3am, which meant getting up at 1.30 am to get there and get the internet orders ready and then at 5am try to stop people killing each other and trampling me, all without being allowed to shout or beat them about their rabid faces.
Thanksgiving was one of two day of the year, the other being Christmas, that the store did not open. Others were not so lucky and had to open their stores at 7pm on Thanksgiving day it's self, leaving their family meal and loved ones.
Retail employment is quite miserable enough, without taking away the last two days these people have.
If it was down to me, I'd enforce closed stores on Thanksgiving Day and Christmas Day, all of them and enforce 10am opening the days following.
dogma wrote: However it is the proper role of the state to regulate public safety, which Black Friday has clearly been shown to compromise.
Well, sure, I agree with you wholly on this, but my feeling is this would be strictly in the crowd-control arena, rather then aimed at the employees themselves. IE, a requirement for a certain level of security.* I think the only way to make that argument fly would be to say that Black Friday shopping is so dangerous that the state is obligated to put a stop to the whole event; I don't think that could be sold.
*After I typed it, I have to wonder if the local fire departments don't already wholly have a claim to manage this.
lord_blackfang wrote: Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote: The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
Black Friday is already on the decline. With internet shopping few people go in for Black Friday every year. This is a problem that will fix itself at the rate things are going.
LordofHats wrote: Black Friday is already on the decline. With internet shopping few people go in for Black Friday every year. This is a problem that will fix itself at the rate things are going.
Not really, Black Friday sales dropped 1.8% at the early estimate, but that's still at 11.2 Billion Dollars... Yes, Online sales topped 1 Billion dollars this year, but you're not going to see a significant swing for at least 10 years.
The number that should be looked at is the number of Black Friday Shoppers, which went up. Many people went into stores and probably showroomed, where they looked at products in stores, and then went home and bought them online (something we've been doing with our little plastic space mans for awhile )
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/12/05 16:14:54
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Having worked retail for 20+ years, let me defend the companies that are doing "staggered" sales on Thanksgiving and Black Friday.....
One of the primary reasons is not money. It's Safety.
Many retail companies do not want to see this every freaking year.....
Want to look at who is to blame for Black Friday sales creeping into Thanksgiving, America? Try the mirror first.
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I think it's only fair that legislation is put into place to give the poor retail guys a couple days they can kick back and actually see their families.
Up here, it's country-wide that no retailer can open on;
New Year's Day
Easter Sunday
Canada Day
Thanksgiving
Christmas
Unless a store/mall is deemed a 'tourist area', it's illegal for stores to open those days.
I mean, seriously, is it really going to kill people or alter their entire life if there's barely 4-5 days of the year they can't go shopping?!?
Experiment 626 wrote: I mean, seriously, is it really going to kill people or alter their entire life if there's barely 4-5 days of the year they can't go shopping?!?
Sadly, I believe there are people who feel they would die if there were days they COULDN'T go shopping. It would be pathetic-but instead it's just sad...
Reality is a nice place to visit, but I'd hate to live there.
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Due to work, I can usually only ship any sales or trades out on Saturday morning. Please trade/purchase with this in mind.
You should research these things before making definitive statements about them.
I was referring to MO. We used to have this, but it was overturned. I remember going to the "East Side" (in Illinios) on Sundays meant getting some booze. Now, "East Side" is where all the strip joints are located .
They've tried to close down liquor stores on Sundays. But that's been over turned.
Minnesota hasn't gotten the memo yet.
Also, is the desire to shop on Thanksgiving day a generational/age related thing? Anecdotally, the only people I saw, heard about, or saw shopping were younger people. Probably trying to escape their families on Thanksgiving.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/12/05 19:33:44
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They've tried to close down liquor stores on Sundays. But that's been over turned.
You can't buy booze in Houston and the surrounding area before noon on Sundays, still.
How the hell else am I going to stop my hang-over from Saturday night?
Ummm, buy some on Saturday and save it for Sunday.
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Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
They've tried to close down liquor stores on Sundays. But that's been over turned.
You can't buy booze in Houston and the surrounding area before noon on Sundays, still.
How the hell else am I going to stop my hang-over from Saturday night?
Ummm, buy some on Saturday and save it for Sunday.
Save it for Sunday?! Wtf? That's heresy!
In Ohio, it's based on county. Where I went to school, it was dry on Sundays. no liquor, and a lot of places had no beer before noon too, and state liquor agencies were cash only. Move out of college, move to the area I work now, find out that liquor sales are at like 11 or 12 on Sundays, and I can pay with my credit card (debit card)... Feth ya!
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Ouze wrote: Well, my immediate counter to that is that in a free economy, the workers are free to simply leave their jobs and find ones they consider less onerous. There is no contract required to work at Target or Walmart, and it's not the proper role of the state to regulate employee morale, so to speak.
Except that for many people the "choice" of employer is an illusion, whether it's because of poor qualifications, a wrecked local economy with few employers, etc. You either take any job you can get, or you have nothing. Without government regulation to step in and put limits on how much you can abuse your employees there are plenty of companies that would be perfectly happy to exploit that lack of options and impose horrible working conditions to save money.
I still think this might be a bridge too far though. I also had to work on Thanksgiving for about 4 hours, and while I wasn't happy with it, I don't want a government official telling me I can't, either. But, you know, I get doubletime on holidays and Target employees don't so their mileage probably varies.
It's nice that Target is generous like that, but it isn't necessary to pay extra. If the store opens at 7pm on thanksgiving day you either show up for your "voluntary" shift, or you get fired.
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
I am reminded of Vonnegut: "Like so many Americans, she was trying to construct a life that made sense from things she found in gift shops."
My family always did the black friday thing. I never understood it, even when I was younger. When I was about 14, I talked them down from "as many presents as possible", to "something really nice", to "anything you could get me I would want is either too expensive for me to be comfortable with you getting or so trivial I already bought it a week ago."
I wouldn't mind seeing it go myself, but I think the justification behind it and the fact that this is what our politicians are up in arms about is a little silly. I certainly don't think that businesses should be FORCED to close on those days. That's not right.
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