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Made in it
Regular Dakkanaut






I've made a search if a previous thread on BEs and Colossals already existed and found nothing, so hoping to not create a duplicate, I open a new one.

This is for everyone to share thoughts, strategies, complaints, personal experience, etc...
Are they playable? I play Circle and Cryx and would like to field some big guy on the battlefield. Making some research online, it seems common opinion that Cygnar ones are the most usable. Unfortunately I don't play (nor like very much) them.

Thinking on getting one, at first tought I would have gone for BEs because of minor cost, but in another thread I've learned that the Wraith Engine is not as playable as I thought, and the Kraken would be a better choice. For Circle, there's no way I'll buy and/or field that crappy stone Mad Cat imitation, totally hate the model. I could get the Fulcrum instead.
But... to be really honest, the one I like most (both for model and idea itself) and badly want to field is Menoth's Vessel. I could even think to start a Menoth force, to play it. Maybe assembling just a 35pts force including it and nothing more.

What do you think? Both on my eventual purchases (Fulcrum, Kraken, Vessel) and more generally on the subject?

   
Made in us
Doc Brown




The Bleak Land of Gehenna (a.k.a Kentucky)

I've never actually played with or against any of them, so I don't have firsthand experience, but I've heard that some of them (the Stormwall in particular) are very effective.

My guess would be that, like most everything else in WarmaHordes, any of them would be playable in the right list.

 
   
Made in us
Death-Dealing Dark Angels Devastator





Western Massachusetts

I haven't played with or against them either. That said, I've heard they're fun to play, bring some excitement to the game, and are generally pretty well balanced in terms of being powerful and able to stick around without totally upending the game.

I play Cygnar and I have to say I LOVE the look of their colossal. I know they didn't think too far out of the box for it being that its basically just a giant warjack but that's appropriate. I really like the Mercs one too, just looks very "steam."
   
Made in us
Paingiver







I have two battle engines and a colossal for my cygnar army (we swans have been gifted with some great huge-based models.) Battle engines are balanced fine and might even be a very little bit below the average power curve but they are reasonably durable and most bring a big gun without taxing your caster's focus like a jack would. In fact many people play battle engines as if they were replacing a jack in their lists. I don't, I replace a ranged unit.
The vessel of judgement is one of the better battle engines since it brings a big gun, can boost at will, and has a lot of utility from miracles.
The celestial fulcrum is a good ranged piece in circle but it goes against a lot of traditional circle paradigms since it can never be stealth, can't hide in a forest, and can't be teleported all over with shifting stones.
The wraith engine is the only strictly melee battle engine and has the problems one would expect from an expensive and large dedicated melee model that cannot boost would. If it gets where it wants to go it will give you results, but cryx has very few defensive spells to make that happen so it becomes unwieldy but not outright bad.

Colossals are also balanced well and solve some problems for casters that run short on focus. They are so tough that they typically don't die to a buffed heavy charging and that alone has reshaped the game a bit, everyone needs better ways to crack armor now, which as it happens, colossals have as well. Gargantuans don't solve the same problems for hordes as their warmachine counterparts but you still get the high proportional dmage output for the points and you still get the toughest models in your faction.
The kraken is a solid hybrid melee/ranged jack with some good extra rules and since it runs on corpses instead of souls it doesn't compete for resources the way a lot of cryx things tend to. It also has the biggest gun in faction by a large margin.
The woldwrath is one of the better gargantuans at first blush and also carries the biggest gun in it's faction, but it spreads the love with a terrific utility animus and some big knockdown shenanigans in melee. The downside is that only animi can buff it and only stones can heal it.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/12/05 18:17:12


   
Made in us
The Conquerer






Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

The Woldwrath is definitly usable. I have no experience against the Cryx one but I imagine they are all usable, just like everything else.

Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines

Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! 
   
Made in it
Regular Dakkanaut






Thanks everyone shared infos, especially you Dais, neat and concise descriptions here. Right what I was looking for.

Anyone wanting to share more (especially field experience ande synergies) will be welcom. Not limited to the ones I've asked about. In fact I'm curious to know if they're used regularly.

@frozenmilk: I like their look too, especially the Colossal (best looking one along Khador's). what I don't like very much is the faction in general.

   
Made in us
Nihilistic Necron Lord






The Circle Battle Engine is Really Good.

 
   
Made in gb
Bane Lord Tartar Sauce





Oxford, Great Britain

 Dais wrote:
The wraith engine is the only strictly melee battle engine and has the problems one would expect from an expensive and large dedicated melee model that cannot boost would. If it gets where it wants to go it will give you results, but cryx has very few defensive spells to make that happen so it becomes unwieldy but not outright bad.


You are so right about this. Admittedly I've only played mine a couple of times but for 9 points I can have this really unwieldy thing or another excellent unit. Or even a seether something which is slightly more survivable (only slightly) yet I can have plenty of fun with.

The Kraken though, that has some interesting synergies. This I'm still playing around with at my local before I bring it to a tournament but some of the stuff you can do is excellent.

Skarre2 has been my favourite so far. Black spot gives a much needed boost to the amount of shooting you can do. Two 4" shots a turn at those stealthy low ARM troops won't leave much for the enemy to use. But that's the minimum you can get. Put black spot on an average unit without stealth and you could get a maximum of 6 hellblaster shots. Not much is going to stand up to that. And then add in the ARM buff of Death Ward for extra protection, Seas of Fate allowing you to boost after the roll saving focus for when you really need it and finally Skarre's feat. You can't use it on the Kraken itself (errata :( ) but stopping those big threats (jacks/beasts) from making attacks will save the Kraken's arse for at least one turn.

Two other casters deserve notice for the Kraken, The Witch Coven and Scaverous. Scaverous isn't a great caster when compared to the rest of the Cryx lineup* but he can definitely help out the Kraken with Death Ward (+ARM), Icy Grip (-DEF), Feast of Worms (-ARM) for protection, extra chance to hit and extra hitting power. Unfortunately you will have an issue between fuelling the Kraken and casting those spells. The Witch Coven on the other hand will have plenty of focus on hand to pass around. The main reason to pair up with the Kraken is Infernal Machine and their Feat. Infernal Machine will help the relatively low MAT and get the threat of melee up to 14". Not many of the Gargossols are beating that. Then the feat will stop any real retaliation against your army very easily.

Just a word on Mortenebra and the Kraken. I personally play Morty with aggressive jack attacks and plenty of movement around the board. The Kraken would take apart the way I love to use her list and thus I can't use the Cryx jack caster with their colossal. This is weird to some others upon the boards I frequent but I've tuned up her list to fit me very well.

*But outside of Cryx is bloody great.
   
Made in us
Druid Warder




SLC UT

The Celestial Fulcrum is good. It has very strong infnatry-sweeping that isn't contingent on your opponent's stuff being alive or stopped not being immune to spells. It is actually pretty resistant to Legion shooting due to its immunity to Fire, and takes any ARM buff fairly nicely. As a note, it CAN gain Stealth. The prohibition against Stealth is on Colossals and Gargantuans specifically, not huge based models in general.

The Woldwrath the OP noted he doesn't want due to aesthetics, and while I like it, I don't htink it's going to weaken things much not ot have it.

The Kraken is actually really solid with a vareity of Cryx warcasters. The ones i see it most with are either Skarre, the Witch Coven, Asphyxious3, and either Denegrah fairly nicely. Things that make it faster, more accurrate, or give it more attacks, basically.

The Wraith Engine I admit I havent' seen a lot of since it came out. Mostly with Skarre1 I think.

And stuff.
   
Made in us
Paingiver







The oddest thing I noticed about the Kraken is that the casters that seem to offer it the most still have at least one trick or spell restricted from it. That might be responsible for it not being as openly embraced as some of the other colossals.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/12/06 05:36:36


   
Made in us
Nihilistic Necron Lord






Also, I've enjoyed the use of the Wraith Engine with pAsphyxious. Works well with his Feat to Debuff a swath of dudes and then reap in their Souls.

 
   
Made in gb
Man O' War






Earth

You can work battle engines and collosals into lists so you can use them regularly

Khador 75p
Menoth 35p
Circle 25p
Legion 25p 
   
Made in it
Regular Dakkanaut






Thanks, I'll put Kraken and Fulcrum in the buy list, so I'll be able to try both a Battle Engine and a Colossal.
In the background (I want to tune my two main factions first) I'll start to plan a 25ish Menoth force with Vessel.

On Woldwrath look, how much I would liked it if model look like this image:


   
Made in us
Big Fat Gospel of Menoth





The other side of the internet

Gabbi wrote:
Thanks, I'll put Kraken and Fulcrum in the buy list, so I'll be able to try both a Battle Engine and a Colossal.
In the background (I want to tune my two main factions first) I'll start to plan a 25ish Menoth force with Vessel.

On Woldwrath look, how much I would liked it if model look like this image:



But it looks exactly like that image...

(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

RAGE

Be sure to use logic! Avoid fallacies whenever possible.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies 
   
Made in gb
Alguacile Paramedic



cwmbran , wales

No the pose in that image is loads better than the tennis ball with arms we actually got

 
   
Made in us
Nihilistic Necron Lord






It's not a hard model to repose.

 
   
Made in us
Paingiver







Davvvid16 wrote:
No the pose in that image is loads better than the tennis ball with arms we actually got


Someone else was thinking the same thing. The repose isn't easy but it can be done. It looks even easier if you allow one arm to be readying an attack.
http://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?130208-Gorilla-WoldWrath-WIP

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/12/06 15:06:27


   
Made in it
Regular Dakkanaut






Nice. Will think about it...

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






Misery. Missouri. Who can tell the difference.

I have found the Kracken to be lack luster performer. However, the person that has it tries to use it as a melee monster and ignores that it much more of a moblie fire support base with its main gun. If you were going against a bunch of one point models the h2h would be great but it is a glass hammer. It is good when charging but when it is charged by something dedicated like a behemoth with full focus it will fall and fall hard.

You might feel like since it is a big powerful mini but hold it back and allow your jacks and units to do the lifting. Your enemy will either ignore the Kracken or drop everything into it which is what will most likely happen. I normally ignore it or take a quick pot shot so I can range its charge range from me. This way I know when it is close enough to send a jack or two in to finish it off.

251 point Khador Army
245 points Ret Army

Warmachine League Record: 85 Wins 29 Losses
A proud member of the "I won with Zerkova" club with and without Sylss.

 
   
Made in gb
Man O' War






Earth

Did someone say fulcrum?!, it is without a doubt the most epic model I have ever seen, hopefully I can't get one for my new circle army

Khador 75p
Menoth 35p
Circle 25p
Legion 25p 
   
Made in us
The Conquerer






Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

 Pipboy101 wrote:
I have found the Kracken to be lack luster performer. However, the person that has it tries to use it as a melee monster and ignores that it much more of a moblie fire support base with its main gun. If you were going against a bunch of one point models the h2h would be great but it is a glass hammer. It is good when charging but when it is charged by something dedicated like a behemoth with full focus it will fall and fall hard.


Heck, even a unit of Heavy Infantry, especially anything with Weapon Master, can do a number on it.

Colossals really should be treated like a heavy jack/warbeast that has a few more hit boxes and greater damage output.

Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines

Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! 
   
Made in us
Wraith





Just don't bring up the Skorne BE around a die hard Skorne player. They're kinda touchy about how bad it sucks.
   
Made in gb
Man O' War






Earth

12thRonin wrote:
Just don't bring up the Skorne BE around a die hard Skorne player. They're kinda touchy about how bad it sucks.


Does it? ive heard it's preety good

Khador 75p
Menoth 35p
Circle 25p
Legion 25p 
   
Made in gb
Bane Lord Tartar Sauce





Oxford, Great Britain

It's not great but I have seen it used a couple of times.

By my mate who deliberately goes out to play the supposedly underpower stuff.
   
Made in gb
Soul Token




West Yorkshire, England

 YELLOWBLADES wrote:
Does it? ive heard it's preety good


The problems are that it's very easy to neutralise by just ignoring it until you can throw something at it that can one-round it. There are things it can do, but there's almost always something for the same points that can do the job better. The Titans can boost more easily, have many more attacks, gain battlegroup and warbeast effects (like Paingivers), and are another transfer target.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/12/07 22:58:38


"The 75mm gun is firing. The 37mm gun is firing, but is traversed round the wrong way. The Browning is jammed. I am saying "Driver, advance." and the driver, who can't hear me, is reversing. And as I look over the top of the turret and see twelve enemy tanks fifty yards away, someone hands me a cheese sandwich." 
   
Made in it
Regular Dakkanaut






I've recently tried the Celestial Fulcrum and liked it a lot. it's a quite straightforward piece to use, and privides some ranged support to Circle (I know there are better ones, but until now (just ordered blood trackers) I owned none). What i liked most it's all three attacks are somewhat capable to hit minis behind other ones. So, since I've proxy-ed it, I was thinking about purchasing the model. It takes the place of a beast (point wise) costing about twice (price wise: suggested retail is around 80€ but I can easily find it for 20 less), it doesn't need to be leeched but it provides Fury just in case your 'lock needs it (and it can always use it to boost its own attacks). To the other hand, I've found it a bit easy to kill: huge base, ridicolous DEF and high but not so high ARM makes quite easy to put 20 damages on it.,,

so what's your thoughts? any idea to make it a bit more resilient?

as a side note, it should also be quite easy and quick to paint (apart the three druids, I should be able to paint it to a nice level with just drybrushing).

P.S. sorry for the necro-thread but I thought would be better continuing here than opening a new one...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/05 21:03:06


   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Circle has the best Hordes Battle Engine, and it is not only playable its sometimes preferred

Cygnar has both the best Battle Engine and the best Colossal and again, is often preferred to other options

Skorne has the best Gargantuan, but they dont actually have a Battle Engine, just a Skorne theme'd paper weight


6+ = 6/36 | Reroll 1s = 7/36 | Reroll Misses = 11/36 ||||||| 5+ = 12/36 | Reroll 1s 14/36 | Reroll Misses = 20/36 ||||||| 4+ = 18/36 | Reroll 1s 21/36 | Reroll Misses = 27/36
3+ = 24/36 | Reroll 1s 28/36 | Reroll Misses = 32/36 ||||||| 2+ = 30/36 | Reroll 1s 35/36 ||||||| Highest of 2d6 = 4.47
 
   
Made in us
Paingiver







I'm not sure anything will save a battle engine from the attention of a heavy melee hitter or focused ranged fire, but you can use the new gobber tinker to repair it and set back small incremental damage.

   
Made in gb
Soul Token




West Yorkshire, England

 Gabbi wrote:
so what's your thoughts? any idea to make it a bit more resilient?

as a side note, it should also be quite easy and quick to paint (apart the three druids, I should be able to paint it to a nice level with just drybrushing).

P.S. sorry for the necro-thread but I thought would be better continuing here than opening a new one...


eBaldur can give it +3 armour, and eKreuger can use his feat to buy a turn of shooting. And don't forget about the smoke cloud that the fireball leaves--it can be worth firing it at things out of range (or at a fireproof druid) just to leave a big cloud denying LoS. Putting Shifting Stones between it and whatever was about to charge it can be a good delaying tactic.

Of course, sometimes it's good that the enemy is attacking your big impressive model, it lets the real threat get in undetected.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/07 21:18:46


"The 75mm gun is firing. The 37mm gun is firing, but is traversed round the wrong way. The Browning is jammed. I am saying "Driver, advance." and the driver, who can't hear me, is reversing. And as I look over the top of the turret and see twelve enemy tanks fifty yards away, someone hands me a cheese sandwich." 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Talamare wrote:
Circle has the best Hordes Battle Engine, and it is not only playable its sometimes preferred

Cygnar has both the best Battle Engine and the best Colossal and again, is often preferred to other options

Skorne has the best Gargantuan, but they dont actually have a Battle Engine, just a Skorne theme'd paper weight


I'll disagree. The Storm Strider is good, but the Vessel of Judgment is pretty easily the best battle engine. It has a bunch of utility and boosts that are virtually free, the opportunity cost on 1hp is negligible.
   
 
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