Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So I got myself a decent size IG army and while reading the codex I noticed that the different regiments seemed to be based on different armies in the modrnish era.
E.g (this is just IMO) DKOK - WW1 Germany
Praetorians - Colonial armies
Valhallans - Soviet ww2 soldiers

Am I right in believing this?

No, you're completely off the beaten track here.

Catachans aren't based on US Vietnam war troopers at all...
Death Korps of Krieg aren't based on WW1 germany either.

Cadians - World War 2 western allies with modern aesthetics.
Krieg - World War 1 western front.
Catachan - Rambo and Vietnam era US army.
Vostroya - Cossack and 18'th century Imperial Russia.
Valhalla - Soviet Red Army.
Elysia - French elite paratroopers.
Preatoria - British Empire in 19'th century.
Armageddon - World War 2 Panzergrenadiers.
Tallarn - Bedouins.
Mordia - 18'th century Prussian and Napoleonic army.

Cadians are in fact, based on 17th century Zimbabwe tribe warriors . But really, you are right, the regiments all have some sort of historical basis.

SilentApocalypse wrote:
But really, you are right, the regiments all have some sort of historical basis.

All Guard Regiments are based on real Earth army's. That gives player great freedom when creating their own Regiments and worlds ( based on their own country or hometown ).

Elysia - French elite paratroopers.

wait what?

 Galdos wrote:

Elysia - French elite paratroopers.

wait what?

Seconded..

Actually Armageddon Steel Legion, tho known for driving around in APCs ala Panzergrenadiers are visually based off WW2 German Paratroopers.

Krieg greatcoats are definitely more French than German, with the helmets going for a combination of both.

 Galdos wrote:

Elysia - French elite paratroopers.

wait what?

Their uniforms and rifles resemble their modern uniform ( their gun is same like FAMAS, the French paratroopers main weapon ).
And battle at refinery 23 - 30 on Taros is based on actual battle where they have fought - Dien Bien Phu ( where they lost but they were widely known for it ).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

SerQuintus wrote:

Actually Armageddon Steel Legion, tho known for driving around in APCs ala Panzergrenadiers are visually based off WW2 German Paratroopers.

Not correct. Their uniforms are more similar to Panzergrenadiers than Fallschirmjäger, in addition to this Aramgeddon Steel Legion is known as Armor Companies supported by infantry - not paratrooper attacks ( that mainly goes into favor of Panzergrenadiers ).

 Brother Captain Alexander wrote:
Cadians - World War 2 western allies with modern aesthetics.
Krieg - World War 1 western front.
Catachan - Rambo and Vietnam era US army.
Vostroya - Cossack and 18'th century Imperial Russia.
Valhalla - Soviet Red Army.
Elysia - French elite paratroopers.
Preatoria - British Empire in 19'th century.
Armageddon - World War 2 Panzergrenadiers.
Tallarn - Bedouins.
Mordia - 18'th century Prussian and Napoleonic army.

Generally correct though I would throw in some changes

Metal Cadians-WWII Canadians (who yes were called Canadian Shock Troops)
Plastic Cadians-No direct historical link, though the boots are a big british.
Peaetorians-British in Southern Africa, specifically as seen in the historical battles of Rorke's Drift and Isandlwana and the films Zulu and Zulu Dawn. They were even presented in WD as the Battles of Ork's Drift and Big Tuff River.
Tallarn - Bedouins, specifically as seen in the movie Lawrence of Arabia. Actually, they're all pretty much Lawrence, any real Bedouin would have a beard.
Catachan - Much more Rambo than any real jungle army.

I think we should keep in mind most of these armies are 2 steps removed from reality, they are GW's take on Hollywood's take on historical soldiers.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Actually, they're all pretty much Lawrence, any real Bedouin would have a beard.

I'd personally go so far as to suggest Lawrence of Arabia (1917) to the Long Range Desert Group (LRDG) & 'L' Detachment, Special Air Service in the desert circa 1941-1943.

Mordians are U.S. Marine Dress Blue Uniform (with added epaupettes), up to usual painting scheme:

SerQuintus wrote:
Krieg greatcoats are definitely more French than German, with the helmets going for a combination of both.

That's why GW uses the beautiful French word Krieg as the name
Actually, it is of course not a copy of any historical uniform, but mixes French and German WW1 uniform elements, using a mostly German helmet form with a French crest but still keeping a general German WW1/WW2 style favoured by fans.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

Metal Cadians-WWII Canadians (who yes were called Canadian Shock Troops)

I've heard the term shock troop applied to the Canadians - but during the 1st World War not the 2nd, and by the Germans rather than the allies.

Metal Cadians cleary wear modern style body-armour which neither WW1 nor 2 Canadians did. They also certainly don't wear WW1/2 style Tommy Hats.

The name MAY have come from a shortening of Canada, or it may have come from shortening Arcadia: the Cadians were basically the thematic successor to the old plastic IG, whose two main named regiments were Necromundan and Arcadian.

 Kroothawk wrote:

SerQuintus wrote:
Krieg greatcoats are definitely more French than German, with the helmets going for a combination of both.

That's why GW uses the beautiful French word Krieg as the name

Are you saying Valhallans aren't ww2 russians but actually early medieval vikings?

Krieg greatcoats are double-breasted and distinctively pinned back at the knees, as far as I'm aware German greatcoats were single-breasted and never went in for the knee pinning, unlike the French.

Kroothawk wrote:That's why GW uses the beautiful French word Krieg as the name

They use the name Krieg because they aren't terribly creative sometimes, lol.

Death Korrr of Warrr! Though to be fair, the German word for anything sounds cooler than the French word for the same thing.

Armageddon? For a planet that is constantly a battlefield?


But, in the end, the armies aren't any one analogous thing, and that's why people disagree so much. GW isn't trying to make Nazis in Space. They're just trying to play off of themes that the player base will latch onto. Hence why we have Viking Marines, and Mad Max Orks, and Anime Mecha Suit Utilitarians etc. Everything is derivative.

And Creed is a mix between Canadian General Arthur Currie and former Prime Minister Jean Chretien.

 Kroothawk wrote:
Mordians are U.S. Marine Dress Blue Uniform (with added epaupettes), up to usual painting scheme

The uniforms of the Mordian Iron Guard are best described as being a compilation of European (and American) uniforms from 1820-1880. The most popular colour scheme for Mordian's is actually far more reminiscent of the French uniforms circa 1870s (Franco-Prussian War) even down to the gaitered boots. The caps they wear are far more like those worn by the Prussian Landwehr than the broader brimmed US Marine Corps hats & match the colour of the uniform, once again unlike the US Marine Corps white caps.

French uniforms circa Franco-Prussian War

Prussian Landwehr circa 1815


As the Imperial Guard regiments have all been based off of combat uniforms (Valhallans, Praetorians, Tallarn, Death Korp, Steel Legion etc), it's a very safe bet to assume GW were inspired by the finely cut, smartly coloured uniforms of the 19th century.

 Kroothawk wrote:
Actually, it is of course not a copy of any historical uniform, but mixes French and German WW1 uniform elements, using a mostly German helmet form with a French crest but still keeping a general German WW1/WW2 style favoured by fans.

It also combines elements of the uniforms worn by the Belgian & British armies (collar unit identifcation tabs from the Belgians & puttees from the British. Their gasmasks seem to be primarily based upon British designs). The entire uniform is based upon those from 1914-1918, not 1914-1945.

 Kroothawk wrote:
Mordians are U.S. Marine Dress Blue Uniform (with added epaupettes), up to usual painting scheme:

SerQuintus wrote:
Krieg greatcoats are definitely more French than German, with the helmets going for a combination of both.

That's why GW uses the beautiful French word Krieg as the name
Actually, it is of course not a copy of any historical uniform, but mixes French and German WW1 uniform elements, using a mostly German helmet form with a French crest but still keeping a general German WW1/WW2 style favoured by fans.

They're a bit different though mine are painted as US Marines



No brass buttons and the seam is off center.

The Mordians actually seem to be a blend of just dress uniforms in general.

Obviously, the US Marine Corps' dress uniform is the most famous because it's so awesome, and the Marine Corps has been using it for just about ever as a recruiting tool.

But, realistically, there a cues there from the dress uniforms of probably dozens of nations. Again, like everybody else, it's a giant mish-mash of different real world things. Games Workshop was just smart enough to paint their original studio models to evoke the US Marines because they have one of the most famous and easily recognizable dress uniforms ever made.

Brother CaptIn Alexander- you are incorrect. Armageddon Steel Legion take their visual cues from the Fallschirmgajer, mainly in the helmet and the smock. Which were both distinctive articles of the FJ.

chaos0xomega wrote:
Brother CaptIn Alexander- you are incorrect. Armageddon Steel Legion take their visual cues from the Fallschirmgajer, mainly in the helmet and the smock. Which were both distinctive articles of the FJ.

Not to mention their bandolier style ammunition pouches. Just paint their jackets in a camouflage scheme and you're pretty much dead on for Fallschirmjager look alikes.

chaos0xomega wrote:
Brother CaptIn Alexander- you are incorrect. Armageddon Steel Legion take their visual cues from the Fallschirmgajer, mainly in the helmet and the smock. Which were both distinctive articles of the FJ.

Now that you mentioned it you are right, and wrong.
The most correct answer is that they are mix of those two, Fallschirmgajer uniforms and Panzergrenadiers style of fighting ( unless you are suggesting that Luftwaffe had an armored divisions as well ).

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:
Games Workshop was just smart enough to paint their original studio models to evoke the US Marines because they have one of the most famous and easily recognizable dress uniforms ever made.

It's more of a mix of the colours used for uniforms at the time of the Franco-Prussian war and the latter part of c19. To go through the uniform bit by bit; the tunic looks as though it is modelled upon lancer/uhlan tunics but with just a single opening on the right hand side of the torso (reminiscent of the tunics worn by German tankers from the 1930s onwards) and is in the same blue as that of the French infantry. The epaulettes come from French line infantry uniforms of the Franco-Prussian war (1870) whilst the black belt is also from the French uniforms. The trousers are in a similar blue to those worn by some regiments of French line infantry (other regiments had red trousers) & have the same red stripe running the length of the seam. The cuffs are from the French uniforms, whilst the collars are of Prussian origin and are that French blue edged with the red used for the French turnbacks. The piping comes from the Prussian tunics as do the black calf-length boots (which on the models can be painted as being gaitered boots). The cap is similar to the type worn by the Prussian Landwehr for much of c19 and is also derived from the Prussian officers cap from the early part of c20, but is in the same blue as the French tunics yet retaining the red band.

Therefore from my estimation the uniform is from the 1850s onwards & derived from the colours of the two armies engaged in the Franco-Prussian War of 1870-1871, especially as all official GW Imperial Guard uniforms & colours have derived from historical examples which saw combat.

I know this post is nit-picking but the Mordian Iron Guard are nothing to do with that US Marine Corps dress uniform. BUT! you can do a lot of what I've done there using the American Union regiments from 1861-1865, particularly in terms of uniform colours (the uniforms & colours worn between 1861-1865 were often inspired by European (particularly French) uniforms).

All the IG regiments have their own historical feel to me, so yeah. Mordians look like colonial donkey-caves, Tallarn like WW1 Arabian warriors, Cadians like WW2 soldiers of some sort etc.

 Brother Captain Alexander wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
Brother CaptIn Alexander- you are incorrect. Armageddon Steel Legion take their visual cues from the Fallschirmgajer, mainly in the helmet and the smock. Which were both distinctive articles of the FJ.

Now that you mentioned it you are right, and wrong.
The most correct answer is that they are mix of those two, Fallschirmgajer uniforms and Panzergrenadiers style of fighting ( unless you are suggesting that Luftwaffe had an armored divisions as well ).

Read what myself and chaos0xomega said. I never said the Steel Legion actually were paratroopers, I said they drove around in APCs but were visually based off Fallschirmjager. chaos0xomega also specified visually in his post. You're arguing people are wrong about something they never disagreed with you about. Tho now you mention it the Luftwaffe DID have a paratrooper armoured division, tho I imagine the infantry were likely conscripts in spare army uniforms like the other Luftwaffe field divisions.

 Sparks_Havelock wrote:

d'Oh! I forgot about the Franco-Prussian war, note the Prussian officer on the horse:

 ExNoctemNacimur wrote:
All the IG regiments have their own historical feel to me, so yeah. Mordians look like colonial donkey-caves, Tallarn like WW1 Arabian warriors, Cadians like WW2 soldiers of some sort etc.

Cadians never struck me as WW2 Allied analogues. Their uniforms are quite different from that of any allied soldier. They are more like typical Sci-Fi troops, resembling the Mobile Infantry.

 Brother Captain Alexander wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
Brother CaptIn Alexander- you are incorrect. Armageddon Steel Legion take their visual cues from the Fallschirmgajer, mainly in the helmet and the smock. Which were both distinctive articles of the FJ.

Now that you mentioned it you are right, and wrong.
The most correct answer is that they are mix of those two, Fallschirmgajer uniforms and Panzergrenadiers style of fighting ( unless you are suggesting that Luftwaffe had an armored divisions as well ).

Ever hear of 1. Fallschirmpanzerdivision 'Hermann Goering'?

Also, FJ units were heavily motorized, they had more trucks than most Heer units (including the mechanized ones) although obviously they would dismount before combqt unlike the mechanized units.

TheCustomLime wrote:

 ExNoctemNacimur wrote:
All the IG regiments have their own historical feel to me, so yeah. Mordians look like colonial donkey-caves, Tallarn like WW1 Arabian warriors, Cadians like WW2 soldiers of some sort etc.

Cadians never struck me as WW2 Allied analogues. Their uniforms are quite different from that of any allied soldier. They are more like typical Sci-Fi troops, resembling the Mobile Infantry.

The original metal models actually predate the Starship Troopers movie.

I always thought that they, especially the helmets, were based (loosely) on the Colonial Marines from Aliens. But again, it's the evoked response they are looking for, by enmeshing lots of different images. Ultimately the Cadians are/were designed to be the "generic" troop type for the game, to appeal across the broadest range of Sci-Fi thematic elements for "regular" human infantry. GW has provided the other ranges to grab onto more specific segments of the market who might like a different look for their infantry. I always laugh when people say that the Space Marines get too many models in 40k. Combined, the IGuard have 12 different ranges: Cadian (x2), Catachan (x2), Mordian, Tallarn, Valhallan (the original 5 2nd Edition sets), Praetorians and Steel Legion (late 2nd Edition additions), Tanith, Vostroyan (later metal additions), Elysian, Death Korps, Traitors (Forge World). Then there are the specialist troops like the Attillan Rough Riders too.

It's the same thing with the Mordians. They borrow image elements from a ton of different historical sources. The paint scheme was definitely chosen because of its similarity (not exact copy, where I think some people are getting confused) to the Marine Corps uniforms. You know why we know this is true? Because so many people assume they are US Marines because they know more or less what the uniform looks like. Obviously, anyone who was a Marine, or looks at the two side by side, knows that the uniform isn't a Marine Corps one. But Games Workshop is all about evoked sets and associations. The scheme might closely resemble another historical uniform that shares color schemes, but that's not why that scheme was chosen as the studio model.

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:

TheCustomLime wrote:

 ExNoctemNacimur wrote:
All the IG regiments have their own historical feel to me, so yeah. Mordians look like colonial donkey-caves, Tallarn like WW1 Arabian warriors, Cadians like WW2 soldiers of some sort etc.

Cadians never struck me as WW2 Allied analogues. Their uniforms are quite different from that of any allied soldier. They are more like typical Sci-Fi troops, resembling the Mobile Infantry.

Spoiler:

The original metal models actually predate the Starship Troopers movie.

I always thought that they, especially the helmets, were based (loosely) on the Colonial Marines from Aliens. But again, it's the evoked response they are looking for, by enmeshing lots of different images. Ultimately the Cadians are/were designed to be the "generic" troop type for the game, to appeal across the broadest range of Sci-Fi thematic elements for "regular" human infantry. GW has provided the other ranges to grab onto more specific segments of the market who might like a different look for their infantry. I always laugh when people say that the Space Marines get too many models in 40k. Combined, the IGuard have 12 different ranges: Cadian (x2), Catachan (x2), Mordian, Tallarn, Valhallan (the original 5 2nd Edition sets), Praetorians and Steel Legion (late 2nd Edition additions), Tanith, Vostroyan (later metal additions), Elysian, Death Korps, Traitors (Forge World). Then there are the specialist troops like the Attillan Rough Riders too.

It's the same thing with the Mordians. They borrow image elements from a ton of different historical sources. The paint scheme was definitely chosen because of its similarity (not exact copy, where I think some people are getting confused) to the Marine Corps uniforms. You know why we know this is true? Because so many people assume they are US Marines because they know more or less what the uniform looks like. Obviously, anyone who was a Marine, or looks at the two side by side, knows that the uniform isn't a Marine Corps one. But Games Workshop is all about evoked sets and associations. The scheme might closely resemble another historical uniform that shares color schemes, but that's not why that scheme was chosen as the studio model.

Space Marines don't get too many models They just get too many Codices but that's neither here nor there. People often deride Guard armies inspired by real life armies as "Wehrmacht Fallschirmjager in Space!" or "Red Army in Space!". But it isn't the army itself that is in space it's their idea that's been transcribed. The Wehrmacht was seen as highly mechanized army (which they weren't) so they were made into 40k's posterboy mech army. Same thing for the Valhallans, but they really aren't like the Red Army. They are what we picture the Red Army to be. Essentially, when you are buying an army you are buying an idea along with the minis. Most people wouldn't stick Steel Legionnaires into Valks, after all.

SerQuintus wrote:

Read what myself and chaos0xomega said. I never said the Steel Legion actually were paratroopers, I said they drove around in APCs but were visually based off Fallschirmjager. chaos0xomega also specified visually in his post. You're arguing people are wrong about something they never disagreed with you about. Tho now you mention it the Luftwaffe DID have a paratrooper armoured division, tho I imagine the infantry were likely conscripts in spare army uniforms like the other Luftwaffe field divisions.

chaos0xomega wrote:

Ever hear of 1. Fallschirmpanzerdivision 'Hermann Goering'?

I was not arguing, I was simply explaining why do I think something is like that. But I see that both of you were right in some matters and thank you for showing me that.
And I saw about that division, it's hard to imagine that paratroopers who fight deep behind enemy lines sometimes and storm the highly unreachable areas deploy with several Panzers ( that is like Royal Navy having several tanks on deck in support of defending the aircraft carrier, at least to me ). But I can see Paratroopers supporting armor companies in war like Germans did on Easter Front on Leningrad front. But Steel Legion is something else, they are usually an armored company so it fells little out of the place to me that they are based on Paratrooper Regiment when they are almost all made up from armored Regiments and fight like Armored Regiment.

 Brother Captain Alexander wrote:

SerQuintus wrote:

Read what myself and chaos0xomega said. I never said the Steel Legion actually were paratroopers, I said they drove around in APCs but were visually based off Fallschirmjager. chaos0xomega also specified visually in his post. You're arguing people are wrong about something they never disagreed with you about. Tho now you mention it the Luftwaffe DID have a paratrooper armoured division, tho I imagine the infantry were likely conscripts in spare army uniforms like the other Luftwaffe field divisions.

Wasn't that the Herman Goering division?

TheCustomLime wrote:Space Marines don't get too many models They just get too many Codices but that's neither here nor there. People often deride Guard armies inspired by real life armies as "Wehrmacht Fallschirmjager in Space!" or "Red Army in Space!". But it isn't the army itself that is in space it's their idea that's been transcribed. The Wehrmacht was seen as highly mechanized army (which they weren't) so they were made into 40k's posterboy mech army. Same thing for the Valhallans, but they really aren't like the Red Army. They are what we picture the Red Army to be. Essentially, when you are buying an army you are buying an idea along with the minis. Most people wouldn't stick Steel Legionnaires into Valks, after all.

I would!

But, then again, I wouldn't run them as actual Steel Legionnaires. The models are just really cool looking.