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 Testify wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:
I don't care for what GW says unless they come up with an actual listing of what their "average customer" buys in order to achieve the 1500$ goal.

$1500 a year is $28, or £17 a week. That's a box set every fortnight, without taking into account paints and supplies. Seems reasonable to me at face value.

And who's actually buying a box set every week then? I am fairly certain there are some people that go out and start at 1500+ points, but most people will start at 500-1000. Furthermore, if the "average" customer bought one box a week, when would he start painting? And what kind of army would need to be so big despite IG?

Furthermore, how does GW keep track of their "average customer"? Do they ask him if he bought stuff somewhere else? I play at two GW stores and 1 FLGS, how do they keep track of me then? Do they keep track of every "timmy" buying something at their store? I don't think a lot of people even use the GW online store. It does not make any sense to me. Why order at their online store, where you could keep track of purchases, when you can get the very same thing at a MUCH lower pricewhen buying from another retailer?

1500$ a year, aka 125$ a month is a whole lot and not even close to what you would actually need to pay if you started an army. Most armies are way cheaper, even if you bought everything at GW (ehem) including colors and brushes (with the latter being a pretty damn bad idea, but alas).

This threads been mint, it reminds me of the good old days in the OT forum, where we men could debate robustly and somewhat insulting witty retorts were lauded as mature and richly satisfying.

 Testify wrote:

azreal13 wrote:
Real world?!

I've been signed off work with a chronic, incurable disease for the last 5 months, trying to make things work on benefits. Don't sit there accusing me of not living in the real world when your own knowledge (as, if I piece together from some of your other posts correctly, an early twenties stoner who possibly still lives at home, job or no job) of real world economics is breath takingly poor.

An increase in the cost of raw materials does not translate to the same increase in price of the finished goods.

Inflation is the measure of price increases down to such things as price increases of fuel etc and increases out of line with inflation, special circumstances notwithstanding, is nearly always for profit.

I pay my own way in the world but that's by the by.

By your logic, Games Workshop should increase the price by a huge amount. Not the 5/10% that the popular boxes go up by, but by 50% a year, or hell a month. Greed, right?

In fact I just checked. Guardsmen haven't gone up in the past year. So your narrative of huge price increases is looking a bit rickity.

Unlike supermarkets GW doesn't have gradual price increase but does them all in one jump, just because their price hasn't increased relatively recently doesn't mean inflation doesn't effect them,

oh. hello thread. :evil:

I like Testify, he's consistent.

anyway, the breakdown isnt just "omg plastic is made from crude oil" it's not always the case.

Furthermore, the breakdown is more likely, retooling, distribution, merchandising, whatever-the-feth-else, pod costs, units of and retraining of FTE's in -- design, marketing, concept development, production etc --
all of the above could explain a minute increase in cost, but not by 10-15% annually.

also, corporations as they look these days, is all about increasing shareholder revenue.

'tis just the way it is.

(also, if plastic costs merit the increase in cost seen at GW, how come paintball and airsoft marker ammo is still, cheaper than ever?)

H.B.M.C. wrote:
LOL! Plastic prices. Yeah. 'Cause plastic is the most espensive part of the process. HAHAHAHAH!

I don't think "plastic and gas prices" are the reason the new LOTR minis have such high prices.

True. But frankly it doesn't bother me. If I think something is too expensive, I won't buy it. GW don't want to price their customers out of the stores, and so far they don't seem to be doing that. 40k is alive and healthy, and Fantasy is...surviving.

There is a higher demand for The Hobbit so they're bound to be more expensive.

H.B.M.C. wrote:
*falls off chair laughing*

Yep. That's it. GW uses such high quality plastic (FinePlastic?) that their prices go up and up and up!!!

Priceless!

Finecast is crap. Good job no one mentioned finecast, eh?

azreal13 wrote:Oh I give up.

It's like trying to teach astrophysics to a cat.

Funnily enough...

MeanGreenStompa wrote:

Other than aesthetic, define quality and why these other companies are 'far lower'. I have heard this argument before and it always seems to boil down to 'well I don't think they look as nice'.

You don't think that aesthetics are important in a hobby based around collecting minatures that look pretty?

Fair enough

Sigvatr wrote:
And who's actually buying a box set every week then? I am fairly certain there are some people that go out and start at 1500+ points, but most people will start at 500-1000. Furthermore, if the "average" customer bought one box a week, when would he start painting? And what kind of army would need to be so big despite IG?

Furthermore, how does GW keep track of their "average customer"? Do they ask him if he bought stuff somewhere else? I play at two GW stores and 1 FLGS, how do they keep track of me then? Do they keep track of every "timmy" buying something at their store? I don't think a lot of people even use the GW online store. It does not make any sense to me. Why order at their online store, where you could keep track of purchases, when you can get the very same thing at a MUCH lower pricewhen buying from another retailer?

1500$ a year, aka 125$ a month is a whole lot and not even close to what you would actually need to pay if you started an army. Most armies are way cheaper, even if you bought everything at GW (ehem) including colors and brushes (with the latter being a pretty damn bad idea, but alas).

When I had the time to game I was buying a box every fortnight, roughly. You can easily sustain this for a year or so for most armies, add in an extensive pain range, paint brushes, occasional large purchases...and yeah, easily.

And my friends bought far more than I did. I had at least 3 friends who bought a box every weak easily. I have one or two that have been doing so for at least 5 years. Does it really annoy you that people enjoy collecting and painting 40k without actively despising the company that provides them with these models?

 xcasex wrote:


(also, if plastic costs merit the increase in cost seen at GW, how come paintball and airsoft marker ammo is still, cheaper than ever?)

Plastic isn't the only cost GW faces, most likely rent and wages for B&M store staff are a fairly high expense for GW which paintball manufacturers don't have to deal with

This threads been mint, it reminds me of the good old days in the OT forum, where we men could debate robustly and somewhat insulting witty retorts were lauded as mature and richly satisfying.

 Testify wrote:

MeanGreenStompa wrote:

Other than aesthetic, define quality and why these other companies are 'far lower'. I have heard this argument before and it always seems to boil down to 'well I don't think they look as nice'.

You don't think that aesthetics are important in a hobby based around collecting minatures that look pretty?

Fair enough

I'm suggesting, by throwing that fairly obvious disclaimer in there, that aesthetics are a personal preference and therefore not a viable excuse for you to use to cite price being higher. Mantic's new ogres look a hundredfold better than GW's fatsos but will likely be about half the price. They still required designing, artwork, meetings to agree them, sculpting greens and casting prototypes. The Look is not a viable argument. You suggested that the GW minis are 'better' and therefore require a higher price, I want you to tell me what it is that makes them better other than you personally prefer the way they look.

Try again, after thinking about it some more.

Good fething grief...

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:

 Testify wrote:

MeanGreenStompa wrote:

Other than aesthetic, define quality and why these other companies are 'far lower'. I have heard this argument before and it always seems to boil down to 'well I don't think they look as nice'.

You don't think that aesthetics are important in a hobby based around collecting minatures that look pretty?

Fair enough

I'm suggesting, by throwing that fairly obvious disclaimer in there, that aesthetics are a personal preference and therefore not a viable excuse for you to use to cite price being higher. Mantic's new ogres look a hundredfold better than GW's fatsos but will likely be about half the price. They still required designing, artwork, meetings to agree them, sculpting greens and casting prototypes. The Look is not a viable argument. You suggested that the GW minis are 'better' and therefore require a higher price, I want you to tell me what it is that makes them better other than you personally prefer the way they look.

Try again, after thinking about it some more.

Good fething grief...

The fact that GW sell 100 times more than they do is proof that they look nicer. You are clearly in the minority, though obviously it is subjective.

 Sigvatr wrote:
1500$ a year, aka 125$ a month is a whole lot and not even close to what you would actually need to pay if you started an army. Most armies are way cheaper, even if you bought everything at GW (ehem) including colors and brushes (with the latter being a pretty damn bad idea, but alas).

Even paying Australian retail, $1500 is extremely excessive even for a Warhammer Fantasy army. I mean, going with an expensive army like Vampire Counts, Vampire Counts, I could bash together a 2000pt army for less than $800au retail, which includes a large block of 50 skeletons, 20 Ghouls, and about 40 zombies to raise.

Even if you add to that paints, brushes, supplies like sand, flock, clippers, etc, some terrain and a battlemat, I wouldn't come close to paying $1500au at retail to get a large army, the supplies to build and paint it, and terrain and a battlemat (which not everyone is going to buy) to play on.

$1500 is extremely excessive.

 Hlaine Larkin mk2 wrote:

 xcasex wrote:


(also, if plastic costs merit the increase in cost seen at GW, how come paintball and airsoft marker ammo is still, cheaper than ever?)

Plastic isn't the only cost GW faces, most likely rent and wages for B&M store staff are a fairly high expense for GW which paintball manufacturers don't have to deal with

They're cutting personnel from shops, and given the current climate with retail units lying empty all over the country, I assure you commercial rents are by and large falling, not increasing.

 mattyrm wrote:
This threads been mint, it reminds me of the good old days in the OT forum, where we men could debate robustly and somewhat insulting witty retorts were lauded as mature and richly satisfying.

Incidentally, the OT misses you. Most of the moderates have left so it tends to be the extremes who post, and extremes by their nature refuse to see the other side of the argument.

 Testify wrote:
Finecast is crap. Good job no one mentioned finecast, eh?

Artful dodge. You didn't answer the point though (and I didn't mention FineCost either).

Exactly MGS, people may buy the kings of war elves or dwarves but I won't because I really don't like the aesthetics of the models in comparison to GW's but Scribor's or wargames factory's models are just fine to me personally.
Every person has their own willingness to pay for a product