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difficult terrain, 3 inches per level isnt it?

I just assumed the skyshield mechanically lowered itself to the ground.

 Crablezworth wrote:
What does an infantry model need to roll to get up on a skyshield landing pad?

Since it isn't a ruin, it would be the same roll needed to balance him on top of a tree in a forest.

-Matt

MarkyMark wrote:
difficult terrain, 3 inches per level isnt it?

It's not a ruin...


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 Spartan089 wrote:
I just assumed the skyshield mechanically lowered itself to the ground.

tee hee


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HawaiiMatt wrote:

 Crablezworth wrote:
What does an infantry model need to roll to get up on a skyshield landing pad?

Since it isn't a ruin, it would be the same roll needed to balance him on top of a tree in a forest.

-Matt

double tee hee



Anyway, yeah, can units melt through the skyshield landing pad? If they don't roll high enough, do they float in mid air? What do they need to roll?

Wraiths also ignore effects of difficult terrain do they just roll their normal 2D6 for charge range. Also they can re-roll that if they've only moved 6" in their movement phase due to being jump infantry

Yeah, the Skyshield is a bit of a mess, ruleswise.

It's difficult terrain, so models just need to roll sufficient distance to reach the top in order to move there. But as to what happens if they don't make it all the way... that's anybody's guess.

We wouldn't normally assume that a model could float an inch above the ground when moving up, say, a rocky outcrop... but the Skyshield is a little unique in being difficult terrain with a large space under it that's just empty air. We have nothing to go on as to just how the studio intended this to work, and the fact that they changed the rules almost immediately after publication suggests that they're not really sure either.

My recommendation would be to just not use Skyshields. They're on my list along with anything with Battlements of 'things not to use until GW decides to write consistent rules for them that actually make sense.'

When I put my rule lawyer hat on, I'm going to say that according to the rules, this is 100% legit. However, this violates the Douchebag Clause and makes the game un-fun.

I can definitely see what GW wanted to do with having the Skyshield Pad, but they didn't consider all angles when it comes to implementation. Oh well.

 NEWater wrote:
When I put my rule lawyer hat on, I'm going to say that according to the rules, this is 100% legit. However, this violates the Douchebag Clause and makes the game un-fun.

What are you talking about?

 insaniak wrote:

 NEWater wrote:
When I put my rule lawyer hat on, I'm going to say that according to the rules, this is 100% legit. However, this violates the Douchebag Clause and makes the game un-fun.

What are you talking about?

Rephrase:

While stacking the Pad full of models and preventing other models from assaulting anything on the pad may be a legit move if one strictly follows the rules to the letter, it's a douche move.

It's already been established that stacking the pad doesn't stop the models from being assaulted.

The sky shield landing pad, iirc, is it grants a 4+ invulnerably to anyone behind the walls and it does not discriminate on the type of unit. IE tanks would get it. However, the topic of actually assaulting it. I would say for wraith and such, that they are treated as being in base to base contact despite not being able to physically place the model on the walls of the landing pad. In this case "lazy model" syndrome would kick in, leaving the wraith on the ground floor of the skypad or where they fit, and rolling the combat accordingly. Then placing the wraith there once the space opens up.

why would you need 3"?

it is not a building nor a ruin so it doesn't have levels, and since all you need is difficult then you just simply move on and off as if it were level to the ground.

 cormadepanda wrote:
The sky shield landing pad, iirc, is it grants a 4+ invulnerably to anyone behind the walls and it does not discriminate on the type of unit. IE tanks would get it. However, the topic of actually assaulting it. I would say for wraith and such, that they are treated as being in base to base contact despite not being able to physically place the model on the walls of the landing pad. In this case "lazy model" syndrome would kick in, leaving the wraith on the ground floor of the skypad or where they fit, and rolling the combat accordingly. Then placing the wraith there once the space opens up.

Right but only ruins and barricades fudge the requirement for base to base close combat, the skyshield doesn't.


So, again, anyone know what an infantry model would have to roll on a difficult terrain test to move on top of a skyshield landing pad? Yeah....

40k-noob wrote:
why would you need 3"?

it is not a building nor a ruin so it doesn't have levels, and since all you need is difficult then you just simply move on and off as if it were level to the ground.

If you're trying to move from the table to a point 3 inches away, you need to be able to move at least 3 inches.

 insaniak wrote:

40k-noob wrote:
why would you need 3"?

it is not a building nor a ruin so it doesn't have levels, and since all you need is difficult then you just simply move on and off as if it were level to the ground.

If you're trying to move from the table to a point 3 inches away, you need to be able to move at least 3 inches.

so i go back to my original question then? how does a tank get up to the skyshield pad then?

 Crablezworth wrote:

 cormadepanda wrote:
The sky shield landing pad, iirc, is it grants a 4+ invulnerably to anyone behind the walls and it does not discriminate on the type of unit. IE tanks would get it. However, the topic of actually assaulting it. I would say for wraith and such, that they are treated as being in base to base contact despite not being able to physically place the model on the walls of the landing pad. In this case "lazy model" syndrome would kick in, leaving the wraith on the ground floor of the skypad or where they fit, and rolling the combat accordingly. Then placing the wraith there once the space opens up.

Right but only ruins and barricades fudge the requirement for base to base close combat, the skyshield doesn't.


So, again, anyone know what an infantry model would have to roll on a difficult terrain test to move on top of a skyshield landing pad? Yeah....

4" or more. Up and over any side of it. You can also move through the middle of it as all you need to move up is the 4" roll, it doesn't restrict you to go up the side of it.

Easy enough for infantry models to do on a move, even realistically probably assaulting with the extra d6 and taking the two lowest.


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40k-noob wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

40k-noob wrote:
why would you need 3"?

it is not a building nor a ruin so it doesn't have levels, and since all you need is difficult then you just simply move on and off as if it were level to the ground.

If you're trying to move from the table to a point 3 inches away, you need to be able to move at least 3 inches.

so i go back to my original question then? how does a tank get up to the skyshield pad then?

The rules say they can with a difficult terrain test, or for a vehicle a dangerous terrain test to see if it becomes immobilized by trying to get up onto it.

if immobilized, where does it become immobilized at?

in midair?

40k-noob wrote:
if immobilized, where does it become immobilized at?

in midair?

Yep, then falls to the ground at the point it tried to go up onto the shield.

Crablezworth wrote:Right but only ruins and barricades fudge the requirement for base to base close combat, the skyshield doesn't.

Wobbly Model does the same thing for other terrain.

40k-noob wrote:if immobilized, where does it become immobilized at?
in midair?

It would be immobilised at the point it enters the terrain, as normal. So that would be on the table, level with the outermost edge of the terrain.

Wobbly model doesn't let you float in mid air.

WMS doesn't let you place a model somewhere it couldn't otherwise go, but it is intended to allow you to position a model somewhere it should be able to stand but can't... And because of the bizarre rules given to the skyshield, the empty space under it is not actually empty space... It's difficult terrain, and so models should be able to stand on it.

Which is silly, but no more so than the rest of the skyshield's rules.

If gw do ever bother to faq it, I would expect that they'll just treat out as a ruin for the purpose of assaulting models on it.

Wouldn't only the legs be actual terrain to go through though, instead of the empty air beneath the rest.

As said, it's not a ruin so wouldn't you need to move through to the actual terrain to get up there?

 insaniak wrote:
WMS doesn't let you place a model somewhere it couldn't otherwise go, but it is intended to allow you to position a model somewhere it should be able to stand but can't... And because of the bizarre rules given to the skyshield, the empty space under it is not actually empty space... It's difficult terrain, and so models should be able to stand on it.

Which is silly, but no more so than the rest of the skyshield's rules.

If gw do ever bother to faq it, I would expect that they'll just treat out as a ruin for the purpose of assaulting models on it.

but WMS does let you put a figure in the space between two of his models against the wall, with the rear of your model on the wall, so your model falls inward onto his models Ergo you made it up to assault him.

The area under the shield is just open terrain and empty space, the difficult test is to get up onto the platform. Or through the platform really, the top is an area of open terrain, not impassible terrain, so you can go through it.

I would like to see the rule that lets tanks move vertically off the battlefield and into a new level of open terrain.

40k-noob wrote:
I would like to see the rule that lets tanks move vertically off the battlefield and into a new level of open terrain.

very narrative and cinematic

oh and the actual rule is pg 115. "to move onto or off of the landing pad counts as moving through difficult terrain." can a tank move through difficult terrain? yep. there ya go.

It's not a ruin, don't pay attention to those rules for this discussion.

That rules doesn't govern vertical movement nor regular movement either. It just says that vehicles are not slowed but do risk being immobilized.

Again, what rule lets a tank move vertically off the table?

40k-noob wrote:
That rules doesn't govern vertical movement nor regular movement either. It just says that vehicles are not slowed but do risk being immobilized.

Again, what rule lets a tank move vertically off the table?

sure it does. you are moving onto the skyshield right? So as a vehicle you move to the point you want to ascend, you make your dangerous terrain test, then move onto the skyshield and finish moving not being slowed by the difficult terrain.

"onto" as in vertically up 3.5" to get on the skyshield.

sirlynchmob wrote:

40k-noob wrote:
That rules doesn't govern vertical movement nor regular movement either. It just says that vehicles are not slowed but do risk being immobilized.

Again, what rule lets a tank move vertically off the table?

sure it does. you are moving onto the skyshield right? So as a vehicle you move to the point you want to ascend, you make your dangerous terrain test, then move onto the skyshield and finish moving not being slowed by the difficult terrain.

"onto" as in vertically up 3.5" to get on the skyshield.

Now you are just filling in the blanks.

There are no rules for vertical movement except for buildings or ruins, and the pad isn't either of those.

40k-noob wrote:

sirlynchmob wrote:

40k-noob wrote:
That rules doesn't govern vertical movement nor regular movement either. It just says that vehicles are not slowed but do risk being immobilized.

Again, what rule lets a tank move vertically off the table?

sure it does. you are moving onto the skyshield right? So as a vehicle you move to the point you want to ascend, you make your dangerous terrain test, then move onto the skyshield and finish moving not being slowed by the difficult terrain.

"onto" as in vertically up 3.5" to get on the skyshield.

Now you are just filling in the blanks.

There are no rules for vertical movement except for buildings or ruins, and the pad isn't either of those.

well if you want to think that way and look for something that says any model can move vertically, then no model, unit, vehicle, nor anything in the game can vertically to get onto the sky shield. Not even jump units, they can move over terrain and land on impassible terrain. Or if the rule I quoted allows for models to move vertically onto it, then it allows tanks as well.

 insaniak wrote:
WMS doesn't let you place a model somewhere it couldn't otherwise go, but it is intended to allow you to position a model somewhere it should be able to stand but can't... And because of the bizarre rules given to the skyshield, the empty space under it is not actually empty space... It's difficult terrain, and so models should be able to stand on it.

Which is silly, but no more so than the rest of the skyshield's rules.

If gw do ever bother to faq it, I would expect that they'll just treat out as a ruin for the purpose of assaulting models on it.

The empty space isn't empty space? What?

Good to know, I'll start getting my heavy weapons ujp into higher vantage points in mid air, there's some thick moisture up there no doubt.