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I was recently told that I was firing my plasmaguns wrong. (Assuming all the models with Plasmaguns in the squad are the same/ same save etc.)

The way I do it:
2x Plasmaguns on my Blood Angel Assault Squad in rapid fire range.
I roll 2 dice to hit for the first Assault Squad guy. Then take saves on any 1 gets hot rolls.
I roll 2 dice to hit for the second Assault Squad guy. Then take saves on any 1 gets hot rolls.

I was told I was doing it wrong and it should ONLY be done this way:
2x Plasmaguns on my Blood Angel Assault Squad in rapid fire range.
Roll 4x dice all at once. Take all the gets hot rolls saves at once.


Lets assume I get 2x get hot's rolls and fail 2x get hot rolls with the 2nd method. Both my Plasmaguners die the guy said. But I like rolling it the 1st method because if for example the 1st guy was the one to roll both the double 1's then he would be the only 1 taking the gets hot rolls. So if I do it the way I was already doing it, you can get a better picture of who takes the rolls for the gets hot.

It even says "For each To Hit roll of 1, the firing model immediately suffers a wound..." I would not be able to tell who the firing model is by his method of firing the plasmaguns.


Am I right or is he right? Any insight on this? I want to do it the right way...

I have always done it separately like you

You have to do it separate because the model that rolls the 1 is the model that must take the wound. You either have to roll it separate or roll different colored dice for the 2 models.

If 1 model rolls 2 1's, it has to take both wounds, you can not allocate the wounds to another model.

yeah. there's no permission for gets hot to change models, technically you need to resolve it with it all identified to the firing model otherwise you aren't necessarily removing the right person.

Even if it's 2 single shots, instead of 2 double shots, you still really are meant to track whose shot is whose.

I do it separately too, it makes more sense to me that way.

As long as you have a way of distinguishing whose dice are whose (such as using two different colored dice) you can roll at the same time to speed up the game (I tend to do this as I have multiple colored dice). If you only have one color, roll them separately.

 BarBoBot wrote:
You have to do it separate because the model that rolls the 1 is the model that must take the wound. You either have to roll it separate or roll different colored dice for the 2 models.

If 1 model rolls 2 1's, it has to take both wounds, you can not allocate the wounds to another model.

Exactly this.

Note though that even though you roll them separately, the shots happen at the same time. You couldn't roll the first guy and then decide whether or not to shoot the second.

I do it at once, but with different colours to be able to determine which marine may or may not suffer the gets hot

In casual games I don't care you just fast roll your dice for all plasma. It's actually less beneficial for you to do so anyway. Like someone said 1 model may be the guy that rolls double 1's and takes 2 wounds, where if you fast roll it you may lose 2 models for 1 mans failure.

Well, "fast rolling" could also be used to avoid taking a wound on a Sergeant or something, though Sergeants should have differently-colored dice anyway thanks to the Precision Shots rule.

syypher wrote:

I was told I was doing it wrong and it should ONLY be done this way:
2x Plasmaguns on my Blood Angel Assault Squad in rapid fire range.
Roll 4x dice all at once. Take all the gets hot rolls saves at once.

Where did this come from?
I don't see any reason to force someone to roll them together. Unless you are super, super slow about it this takes like 3 seconds more on your game.

How I do it with my same coloured dice:

Roll all to-hits (4 dice for 2 rapid firing plasmaguns), taking note of the amount of 1s
Roll to wound etc.
Assign the gets hot wounds randomly (1-3 left guy, 4-6 right guy)
Roll saves separately.

A bit faster than rolling all separately. Also note that if you have different coloured dice you still need to make sure everyone knows who they are for (blues are for left guy, greens for the right guy, blacks for the guy with the mohawk, whites for sarge, yellows for the dude with the big hat...). Sometimes this is easier, sometimes not.

 liturgies of blood wrote:

syypher wrote:

I was told I was doing it wrong and it should ONLY be done this way:
2x Plasmaguns on my Blood Angel Assault Squad in rapid fire range.
Roll 4x dice all at once. Take all the gets hot rolls saves at once.

Where did this come from?
I don't see any reason to force someone to roll them together. Unless you are super, super slow about it this takes like 3 seconds more on your game.

Some guys we were playing at our LFGS told me to do it that way because it was "the right way."

It's really not hard to do separate colors for each shooter. As you are selecting the dice to roll, you place one of the appropriate color next to the shooter. Then once you roll, you know who takes the gets hot, etc. So if blue rolls snake-eyes, he has to take the two saves instead of one of his gets hot being randomly allocated to a different model.

The way that I normally do it whenever I don't have different colored dice is this:

I set the dice down on the table, in the groups that I'll be rolling. For example's sake a ten man marine squad with plasma pistol on sgt, plasma gun, plasma cannon, and 7 bolters at 12".

So I set one aside for the sgt, 2 for the plasma gun, 1 for the plasma cannon overheat, and 14 for the bolters.

Then if I have room I roll them in kind of an arc in front of me, keeping them seperate from each other by not chucking the dice at the table.

So long as I can remember which groups are which, it's pretty easy and I can roll it almost as fast as multiple colors of dice. Granted it's simpler with multiple colors, but just in case I forget them this way works too.

even if the one model gets two get hot rolls.

I would say that suffers = allocates.
pg 15.
he suffers 2 wounds
he takes 2 saves and fails both

You then allocate a wound to that model which leaves 1 wound in the wound pool.

Allocate remaining wound to the closest model until there are no more wounds left.

sirlynchmob wrote:
even if the one model gets two get hot rolls.

I would say that suffers = allocates.
pg 15.
he suffers 2 wounds
he takes 2 saves and fails both

You then allocate a wound to that model which leaves 1 wound in the wound pool.

Allocate remaining wound to the closest model until there are no more wounds left.

So you're saying that Gets Hot! rolls should be allocated beyond the model with the Gets Hot! weapon even onto models with weapons that don't have the rule?

 htj wrote:

sirlynchmob wrote:
even if the one model gets two get hot rolls.

I would say that suffers = allocates.
pg 15.
he suffers 2 wounds
he takes 2 saves and fails both

You then allocate a wound to that model which leaves 1 wound in the wound pool.

Allocate remaining wound to the closest model until there are no more wounds left.

So you're saying that Gets Hot! rolls should be allocated beyond the model with the Gets Hot! weapon even onto models with weapons that don't have the rule?

yep

Thankfully the rules disagree. Gets hot refers to a model. Suffer =/= allocate as allocate is a defined term within the rules.
Many effects that causes wounds that do not allocate wounds use the word suffer and refer to models or specific models.
EG you can't Look out sir perils of the warp.

 liturgies of blood wrote:
Thankfully the rules disagree. Gets hot refers to a model. Suffer =/= allocate as allocate is a defined term within the rules.
Many effects that causes wounds that do not allocate wounds use the word suffer and refer to models or specific models.
EG you can't Look out sir perils of the warp.

where do you find the definition for suffer in the rules? I can't seem to find that page.

and where under gets hot does it say you ignore populating the wound pool?

the model suffers the wounds, then makes his saving throws. that's just another way to say the wounds are allocated to that model so that model will take the saving throws. ie their following the normal shooting wounding procedure.

Cos it doesn't populate a wound pool, where does it say to do that?

Suffer is an english word defined in the dictionary, they use allocate in the rules to denote the method by which wounds are assigned to a unit. In this case the wounds have been assigned to a model already so no allocation happens.

Gets hot says that the firing model immediately suffers a wound. Not that a wound is done to the unit.

Because the rules say "model", not "unit". You can't pass the wound to another model in the unit because the only model in the wound pool is the one model.

 liturgies of blood wrote:
Cos it doesn't populate a wound pool, where does it say to do that?

Suffer is an english word defined in the dictionary, they use allocate in the rules to denote the method by which wounds are assigned to a unit. In this case the wounds have been assigned to a model already so no allocation happens.

Gets hot says that the firing model immediately suffers a wound. Not that a wound is done to the unit.

pg 14 the wound pool. Where does get hot say to skip this step?

pg 15. if the model is reduced to 0 wounds, remove it as a casualty. continue allocating unsaved wounds until there are no more wounds left.
Where does get hot say to skip this part?

suffered is used many times through the brb. It's a process, you start by suffering a wound, then you take saves, then you've either saved the wound ending the suffering, or you've suffered an unsaved wound.

If the model suffers two wounds they go into the wound pool, You allocate wounds one at a time, If the model fails his save and dies, what happens to the other wound? on pg 15 it says to allocate to the closest model. Where does get hot say not to do that?

Get hot just inflicts the wounds on the model to get the suffering process started, after that you follow the rules as laid out on pg 15.

sirlynchmob wrote:

 liturgies of blood wrote:
Cos it doesn't populate a wound pool, where does it say to do that?

Suffer is an english word defined in the dictionary, they use allocate in the rules to denote the method by which wounds are assigned to a unit. In this case the wounds have been assigned to a model already so no allocation happens.

Gets hot says that the firing model immediately suffers a wound. Not that a wound is done to the unit.

pg 14 the wound pool. Where does get hot say to skip this step?

When it says that the model suffers, not the unit.

The wound pool deals with the unit as a whole. If you're asserting the wound pool is used for all wounds, then you're also asserting that Look Out, Sir! can be used for Perils of the Warp, Gets Hot!, Dangerous Terrain tests, etc.

Get hot just inflicts the wounds on the model to get the suffering process started, after that you follow the rules as laid out on pg 15.

Page 15 deals with wounding units, not models.

rigeld2 wrote:

sirlynchmob wrote:

 liturgies of blood wrote:
Cos it doesn't populate a wound pool, where does it say to do that?

Suffer is an english word defined in the dictionary, they use allocate in the rules to denote the method by which wounds are assigned to a unit. In this case the wounds have been assigned to a model already so no allocation happens.

Gets hot says that the firing model immediately suffers a wound. Not that a wound is done to the unit.

pg 14 the wound pool. Where does get hot say to skip this step?

When it says that the model suffers, not the unit.

The wound pool deals with the unit as a whole. If you're asserting the wound pool is used for all wounds, then you're also asserting that Look Out, Sir! can be used for Perils of the Warp, Gets Hot!, Dangerous Terrain tests, etc.

Get hot just inflicts the wounds on the model to get the suffering process started, after that you follow the rules as laid out on pg 15.

Page 15 deals with wounding units, not models.

I would assert that LOS could be used for those, but Perils and get hot got FAQ'd to say they can't. so there you go.

Where does it ever imply that the wound pool is only for the unit as a whole? But even if we ignore the pool, the steps outlined on pg 15 clearly state, you allocate one wound. if the model fails his save, he is removed. then remaining wounds are .allocated to closest models. (still assuming one model got two get hot results.)

Shooting works by choosing the target, which is a unit. Pg 12 talks about shooting at a unit, this then follows through the rest of the shooting phase.
Hence allocation is to a unit. The process for Gets hot is on a per model basis and immediately departs from the process as per page 15 in this regard. So no wound pool is generated, the fact that it has been faq'd to deny LOS! to the wound lends even greater weight to this reading of the rules.

 liturgies of blood wrote:
Shooting works by choosing the target, which is a unit. Pg 12 talks about shooting at a unit, this then follows through the rest of the shooting phase.
Hence allocation is to a unit. The process for Gets hot is on a per model basis and immediately exist from the process as per page 15.

So after the model fails 2 saves then nothing happens? As you've already exited the process and skipped the part to remove models?

No, you just skip the allocation phase as the wound CANNOT be allocated.

Otherwise you wouldn't remove models that loose wounds for difficult terrain, perils, etc etc.

How would you do it with a bigger squad?
10 Flash gitz shooting 20 bullets would take some time. Or even the old Mutant fire arms from the old Lost and the damnd codex.

Even worse, what if a 50man IG blob shoots rapid fire with FRFSRF order and a nurgle sorcerer cast their get hot spell on them?

There is no clear rule, but I think fast rolling is the way to go.