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Despite having millions of projects on the go as it is, hobby butterfly syndrome seems to spreading like a virus through me, and I keep looking at picking up either the Guard or Cron codex.

I'm inclined to say Crons, as they've just been updated, though I can't see Guard getting attention any time soon.

Wotcha reckon Dakka?

If you're just looking at the Codexes, why not pick up both?


We really need more information, like what are you looking for in an Army, what has driven to decide between those two, etc etc.

Honestly, cost. I have a lot of financial fun with very little disposable income so hobby purchases are real luxuries.

So that's one of the factors in edging towards Crons as I don't have to worry so much about large blobs of infantry, or expensive tanks. Unless I can do a small elite company that is.

I like guard, as I want to do a PDF to compliment my marines, and paint them up in the uniform colours of my wifes military marching band.

Either way I think I'd be looking at doing either a cron wing, or a valk-wing force, all eggs in one basket, very fluffy and fun to collect / paint. I'm not a competitive player so much, though being able to win is still a factor of course haha.

So I guess , having thought about it, it comes down to:

- lowest number of models on the table to keep it cheap
- Customisation options
- Fun to play / collect/ paint

Of course I am open to suggestions outside of these points though

Hmmm, if i were you, then you'd be me and i'd use YOUR body to get to the top!......

*ahem* sorry Kitch my inner Ace Ventura took over there for a sec! my personal recommendation would be for you to play Crons, great models, smallish force if you want to build it in such a way, not to mention new codex and they are damn nasty on the table! plus I can happily help you out paint wise if you want to throw ideas around??

:-)

 nerdfest09 wrote:
Hmmm, if i were you, then you'd be me and i'd use YOUR body to get to the top!......

You can't stop me no matter WHO are you!!! Ep ep ep ep ep!

 nerdfest09 wrote:
*ahem* sorry Kitch my inner Ace Ventura took over there for a sec! my personal recommendation would be for you to play Crons, great models, smallish force if you want to build it in such a way, not to mention new codex and they are damn nasty on the table! plus I can happily help you out paint wise if you want to throw ideas around??

:-)

All good man lol

Originally I was thinking that I'd do the crons in black and white, as per the robots from iRobot. All I know is I don't want them to be metallic, if I go for them, as I do strongly like the idea of an elite IG air assault / drop force. I think I can get more from the cron wing though, in terms of game efficiency etc, wdyt?

Competitive wise? Necrons seem to be the viable option as all I've heard about them is how much they're nuking any army they come up against.

Fun wise? I'd say Guard but that's because none of my mates play Necrons and I haven't come up against them and personally I like the variation of Guard whether it's a mech army, footslogging or aircraft and doesn't even scratch the surface of the different types of IG there are. Steel Legion, Death Korps of Krieg and Valhallans are my top three favourites.

Competitive wise, necrons are good, with a couple of broken spam lists. But even just getting a variety of units works well.

However, aside from a couple of specific spam lists, IG is still the most powerful codex out there. They also tend to have more variety in their list building.

Guard would probably be best if you don't have much money to throw round, since you can simply take them as an allied force and that will keep the model count down and allow you to use them almost immediately in larger battles. you really only need 15 guardsmen to have a legal allied detachment (Command squad + Veteran squad) and the command squad has some pretty awesome options you can take to personalise them, and there are a good number of really fun modelling options.

Necrons it will be like starting a new army, so you will need a larger initial outlay to get a legal force, and you wont really be able to use them in larger battles, at least initially.

Both guard and Necrons are very powerful codices atm, there isn't really much to seperate them, but in the long run (allied detachments aside) you will find fielding a necron army to be cheaper

If money is an issue IG is right out. Even a "budget" army can cost several hundred dollars.

Pick the one you like the look of the most, you're the one that will have to paint and model all the little buggers.

Ok, Guard question (I'm not ignoring those that are saying dont go Guard, taking it all on board, just want to check everything off).

I'm envisioning 3 or so Valks flying in, dropping troops off. These troops will be squads of maybe 10 guardsmen, with as many plasma guns as possible. Is there anyone that I can choose to lead these guys that will give them rerolls to hit (for gets hot!) or to armour saves (for failed gets hot!)?

I'd have a clean slate if I collected crons, though I have a very particular image of how I'd want the guard to work, so bare with me while I figure out if its feasible.

 kitch102 wrote:
Ok, Guard question (I'm not ignoring those that are saying dont go Guard, taking it all on board, just want to check everything off).

I'm envisioning 3 or so Valks flying in, dropping troops off. These troops will be squads of maybe 10 guardsmen, with as many plasma guns as possible. Is there anyone that I can choose to lead these guys that will give them rerolls to hit (for gets hot!) or to armour saves (for failed gets hot!)?

I'd have a clean slate if I collected crons, though I have a very particular image of how I'd want the guard to work, so bare with me while I figure out if its feasible.

We have an order called "bring it down" which allows us to twin link our shots vs. MC's and vehicles. However, it requires a LD check to be passed, and the CCS has to be very close (usually within 12") to pull it off. You could also take a divination enabled allied pysker. But both of these are bad ideas. Why?

We're IG. Our stuff is dirt cheap. That vet squad you're trying to make twin linked falling out of the vendetta? With 3 plasmas, it's only 115pts. We're better off spamming more cheap squads of them (since most will just die horribly anyways, ESPECIALLY if they're jumping out of valkyries/vendettas into enemy) than trying to take fewer squads and make them better, since the armor they can take won't do them any good. Don't sweat overheats, that's why we bring so many plasma guns. Don't worry about rerolls, since with 3 plasmas we have enough shots to guarantee hits with the vet's BS 4. Don't worry about armor saves, because these are guardsmen, they're wearing cut up boxes for armor. These are not space marines, you can't take one unit and expect it to get it's job done. In IG land, we take multiples of everything, because the first unit will die, horribly. The second will whiff, then die, horribly. The third however will be safe because the first two squads used up all the failure in the air, and will accomplish it's job.

The thing you need to remember about IG (and something that most people struggle with when picking up IG as a second army) is that while other armies need generalized units that can handle multiple jobs, IG can get their units for so cheaply that we can specialize at will. Instead of trying to keep one unit of 10 guardsmen alive, we just take 2 more squads, and overwhelm your target capability. That's just how IG rolls really.

That said and done, airborne guard is very effective and the basic idea you seem to have in mind would make a strong core theme to a list.

You can play around with some to hit rolls if you use orders from a company command squad. Note though, you can do mroe than make weapons twin linked. You can also force cover saves to be rerolled for example. It would however mean that you do have to keep your squads close to the ccs as the range is only 12". Still, it's an extra squad where you can load up on plasma aswell if you would want to.

That sounds awesome, though it's not the die hard, grizzled, never say die elites that I envisioned... I'm looking for a kill team I think, like the squad in aliens, facing down hordes of ravenous creatures up close and personal, spattered in the gore and ichor of their enemies as they trample onwards.

Yeah, I think that reads as "looking for: Imperial Guard. Must be Space Marines".

Lol.

The crons aren't a second favourite, it's more a case of which one first than anything I think lol

Not sure for re-roll to hits, but you can take 10 men Veteran squad, give every squad 3 plasma guns and strap carapace armor on those squads, you won't re-roll armor saves, but you'll save on a 4+ instead of a 5+, even better AP 5 weapons magically stop raping your squads (if you ever fought Tau, being able to actually roll for your armor save is great).

Yep, Tau's my main opponent! So that's good to know...

What's the transport capacity of a Valkyrie? Or any codex based Guard flyer for that matter, in case there are others?

Eeeeeeeerm I think the Vendetta can carry 6 models and the Valk can carry 10, don't quote me, I play the Death Korps.

Stormtroopers are a good choice for you, they come with Carapace, deep strike and can take 2 plasma guns.

Bit hefty on points though aren't they? I heard the standard vets were a lot more cost effective for the same gear?

They do have AP 3 lasguns tho.

Personally I use the even more expensive Krieg version that can't Deepstrike, made a mess of Kharn and his Zerkers with their guns and demo charges, but that is beside the point.

Ok, that's pretty sexy... FW only rules?

Stormtroopers are a Codex unit, cheaper than the DKoK Grenadiers, can deepstrike, can't take a demo charge, can take plasma, both have carapace and hotshot lasguns.

Hotshots will punch a nice hole through most Tau stuff, by the way, obviously there's cover involved, but still.

If you're looking for re-rolls to hit / twin-linking, look at the Necron Triarch Stalker. When its weapons hit (not necessarily wound), every other weapon in the Necron army gets twin-linking to hit the same target. But as cool as that may sound, its not exactly needed, since many of the "bread and butter" Necron weapons are already twin-linked: Annihilation Barge, Night Scythe, and Doom Scythe to name a few. Plus all the Tesla weapons on a 6 cause 2 extra hits.

 Bobthehero wrote:
Eeeeeeeerm I think the Vendetta can carry 6 models and the Valk can carry 10, don't quote me, I play the Death Korps.

Stormtroopers are a good choice for you, they come with Carapace, deep strike and can take 2 plasma guns.

Both can carry 10 models.

Veterans are like stormtroopers without deepstrike, with one extra special weapon, and they can score. They're far cheaper too (pointswise).

I love guard, think it's the most fun I've had with the hobby. That said, if you have any financial issues, guard will be too expensive for you.

I'd go Guard. I occasionally run Guard with SM, and it is a ton of fun. Guard are one of the most flexible and customizable forces in the game.

When I ever I see people talking about V-Guard Stormtrooper strikes, I think of this:

That's what I'm talking about

Vets have 3 special weapons, can take carapace armor (+4) and can score. A 3 plasma squad with carapace would only be 145pts, so if you were dead set on having better armor it's not the worst way to spend your points, although it would be the first thing I would cut should I decide I want more stuff. If I'm taking a doctrine though, I'd take demolitions. Melta bombs on all 10 vets AND I get a demo charge? For 30 POINTS???!?!?!? Yes please!

If you're looking for elite infantry in guard, that would be stormtroopers. AP 3 lasguns, can reroll their deepstrike, have carapace, krak grenades, AP 3 laspistols, and can also outflank (with a transport) or even get pinning if for some reason you thought that was important. Most people use them as suicide squads, but Ailaros has made good use of 10 man squads that are actually designed to live past the turn they deepstrike and function pretty much how paratroopers would in real life.

How many men are in the 145 point vet squad? I'm guessing 10?

Any chance of a link to an example of how Aliaros uses his Storm Troopers?

Look at his blog in his signature, read a bunch of them, very fun and everytime I see them i wish my Grenadiers could deep strike as well :(

Guard. Because valk wing is really fun to play.

As a Necron player I say you play Guard. I'm tired of seeing everyone with their cron army, *sniff, I miss being a special snowflake!

Lol, I think you're safe for now KP! Went in to my flgs yesterday, I haven't bought anything yet though pretty sure my mind has been made up after discussing tactics with the blueshirt that has pretty much exactly the same force that I'm aiming for!