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@AustonT: That's what I would have thought too but the Deathwatch core book apparently says the DW was founded much more recently (early M41 at the earliest).

 Manchu wrote:
@AustonT: That's what I would have thought too but the Deathwatch core book apparently says the DW was founded much more recently (early M41 at the earliest).

Early is relative since, as I stated earlier, the Jericho Reach has had a Deathwatch presence since M35, as stated on the deathwatch timeline, Know No Fear

It seems an odd usage to say "centuries ago" when what you really mean is "over five millennia ago."

 Manchu wrote:
It seems an odd usage to say "centuries ago" when what you really mean is "over five millennia ago."

As true as that may be, I'm willing to accept a concrete date over hyperbole.

On the other hand, 50 centuries is technically still "centuries ago" just as it would also be "years ago"

Or "seconds ago." But only a moron talks that way.

Alpharius wrote:

 AustonT wrote:

 Manchu wrote:
We know Ordo Hereticus did not appear until after the Age of Apostasy. Although the exact date of the founding of the GK is unknown, it had to be before the end of Malcador's life since he founded them. But what about the Deathwatch? Were there alien-hunting specialist Inquisitors in the meantime?

I believe that the Deathwatch was founded during the Heresy making it M31, and whilst the primarchs still lived I would imagine that the space marines formed the core of any anti-xenos fighting. Although that is admittedly a guess as I'm not familiar with the Inquistion.

There's nothing that actually says this though, so... where are you getting your guess material from?

Index Astartes II P40
"Since the Dawn of the Imperium two brotherhoods of Space Marines have fought these foes and defeated them. They are the Deathwatch and the Grey Knights."

Manchu wrote:@AustonT: That's what I would have thought too but the Deathwatch core book apparently says the DW was founded much more recently (early M41 at the earliest).

Deathwatch: Know no Fear places the Deathwatch's arrival in Jericho Reach in M35 so that can't possibly be the case. Its on like page three. The IA article also says "thousands of years" so at the very earliest the Deathwatch Dates to M39 and like I said it's more likely it dates to M31.

That certainly makes much more sense to me, intuitively.

 AustonT wrote:

Deathwatch: Know no Fear places the Deathwatch's arrival in Jericho Reach in M35 so that can't possibly be the case. Its on like page three. The IA article also says "thousands of years" so at the very earliest the Deathwatch Dates to M39 and like I said it's more likely it dates to M31.

Wait, how could M39 be the earliest? If IA II says "dawn of the imperium" (which can mean all sorts of things but for now I'll assume M31) and the event in Know No Fear happened in early M35, then wouldn't the deathwatch founding have to have been between M31 and early M35? While I'm more inclined to lean closer to M35, I wouldn't say there's anymore concrete evidence that could truly reduce that range of time.

I think he actually meant, at the latest.

Yeah, latest.

Ah, okay. No problems then.

Wait what. Which part of the imperium "dawned" closer to M35 exactly?

 AustonT wrote:

Alpharius wrote:

 AustonT wrote:

 Manchu wrote:
We know Ordo Hereticus did not appear until after the Age of Apostasy. Although the exact date of the founding of the GK is unknown, it had to be before the end of Malcador's life since he founded them. But what about the Deathwatch? Were there alien-hunting specialist Inquisitors in the meantime?

I believe that the Deathwatch was founded during the Heresy making it M31, and whilst the primarchs still lived I would imagine that the space marines formed the core of any anti-xenos fighting. Although that is admittedly a guess as I'm not familiar with the Inquistion.

There's nothing that actually says this though, so... where are you getting your guess material from?

Index Astartes II P40
"Since the Dawn of the Imperium two brotherhoods of Space Marines have fought these foes and defeated them. They are the Deathwatch and the Grey Knights."

Manchu wrote:@AustonT: That's what I would have thought too but the Deathwatch core book apparently says the DW was founded much more recently (early M41 at the earliest).

Deathwatch: Know no Fear places the Deathwatch's arrival in Jericho Reach in M35 so that can't possibly be the case. Its on like page three. The IA article also says "thousands of years" so at the very earliest the Deathwatch Dates to M39 and like I said it's more likely it dates to M31.

Still unlikely to me, especially as nothing you said actually puts a date on things, other than dates that conveniently enough don't match your theory!

They match my theory just fine. Older fluff was pretty intentionally vague. And the hard dates I got are A: not from GW and B: much newer. They do set an "at least" date which is good enough to disprove this nonsense that DW originated M31. The only way you'll get a hard date of origin will be the Matt Ward Ordos Xenos codex sure to come out sooner or later. Then we'll know.

I think it's more likely that the "from the beginning" theory will be disproven in the course of the Garro series.

The reason I'd push the founding to later than M31 is because the description of the Apocryphon Conclave makes it sound like the Ordo Xenos had already been firmly established for some time when the decision to establish the deathwatch was made.

I don't have any deathwatch book and haven't read any BL books
however I have been messing around with with a deathwatch codex, most of the information I'm getting is from here
http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Deathwatch
the reason I bring it up is because it mentions deathwatch's origins around early M31
this says it was formed from loyalist death guard how arrived to warn of horus being a traitor
I'm not sure if it was mentioned before in the posts, I might have missed it, if so sorry for repeating

 Hive Fleet Lazarus wrote:
I don't have any deathwatch book and haven't read any BL books
however I have been messing around with with a deathwatch codex, most of the information I'm getting is from here
http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Deathwatch
the reason I bring it up is because it mentions deathwatch's origins around early M31
this says it was formed from loyalist death guard how arrived to warn of horus being a traitor
I'm not sure if it was mentioned before in the posts, I might have missed it, if so sorry for repeating

Complete and utter tripe.

jareddm wrote:
Complete and utter tripe.

Pretty much. For all it's faults, Lexicanum is a far, far, far better place to start your research.

That "from the dawn of the Imperium" thing is pretty convincing. It must have been M31.

 Manchu wrote:

jareddm wrote:
Complete and utter tripe.

Pretty much. For all it's faults, Lexicanum is a far, far, far better place to start your research.

Because at least they try to cite.

That and they don't just throw in what our Melissia would call "fan spank" whenever (although it does happen occasionally).

EDIT: I didn't know spank was autofiltered now.

good to know, I'll use them a lot less now, thanks

 KamikazeCanuck wrote:
That "from the dawn of the Imperium" thing is pretty convincing. It must have been M31.

Yeah...no.

From the blurb on HORUS RISING:

Under the benevolent leadership of the Immortal Emperor the Imperium of Man has stretched out across the galaxy. On the eve of victory, the Emperor leaves the front lines, entrusting the great crusade to his favorite son, Horus. Promoted to Warmaster, the idealistic Horus tries to carry out the Emperor'sgrand design, all the while the seeds of heresy and rebellion have been sowed amongst his brothers.

It was pretty much "The Imperium" once the Emperor settled Terra's issues.

That line about Deathwatch and Grey Knights being around since the 'dawn of the Imperium' - more or less the usual flowery hype found in just about every GW article.

Oh, that from the beggining thing was 40K wikia? Nevermind then.

 Manchu wrote:
That and they don't just throw in what our Melissia would call "fan spank" whenever (although it does happen occasionally).

EDIT: I didn't know spank was autofiltered now.

What was labeled "tripe" isn't fan spank, it's the end of Flight of the Eisenstein plus wishful thinking. Nothing indicates what branches of he inquisition they went to if any at all. but the book does strongly imply that they become members of the inquisition. Not enough to say with any certainty.
Arguably anything from a Swallow book is worse thank fan spank. Though I've heard his HH fare is above his usual level.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 KamikazeCanuck wrote:
Oh, that from the beggining thing was 40K wikia? Nevermind then.

No it's from Index Astartes and Chapter Approved. Alpharius just doesn't like it.

It just isn't right.

There were no Grey Knights or Deathwatch at 'The Dawn of The Imperium".

There were Grey Knights sometime in M31, during the Second Founding.

To date, nothing definitively puts the Deathwatch that far back.

Maybe they'll retcon/backdate it to then at some point, but until they do, it appears as if AustonT just doesn't like being wrong.

Dawn's a pretty relative term. I think there's something weird that The Age of Imperium doesn't even begin till after The Emperor's entombment. Maybe that's what they're talking about. I think it's pretty reasonable that special teams of Astartes where assembled to deal with special Xenos problems. In the BRB they mention The Imperium was immediately set upon by aliens looking to take advantage of The Imperium's weakened state. I think The Deathwatch or some sort of proto-deathwatch was around in M31. I just don't think Garro had anything to do with it.

 Alpharius wrote:
It just isn't right.

There were no Grey Knights or Deathwatch at 'The Dawn of The Imperium".

There were Grey Knights sometime in M31, during the Second Founding.

To date, nothing definitively puts the Deathwatch that far back.

Maybe they'll retcon/backdate it to then at some point, but until they do, it appears as if AustonT just doesn't like being wrong.

You have yet to contribute anything that refutes it other than your opinion.

All of what you quoted was straight up fact!

Are you not paying attention?

It doesn't appear that you are, so, I'll remind you this isn't the OT forum and hope for the best!