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As much as people always say "it's too soon to talk about gun control", this seems like a good article on the subject:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2012/12/14/nine-facts-about-guns-and-mass-shootings-in-the-united-states/

The fact that you are:
1) Associating the shooter as an "animal" is despicable. He was a human being, same as you or I. .

the shooter was not the same as me...

I live here in CT. Very very sad. But all reports released by the State police so far say "Newton police asked for assistance and upon state police arriving they entered the school"... Why wait for state police? Get in their and do something, i don't understand.

Sad fact is you can't treat maniacs, and your not gonna abolish guns or peoples rights to get them. Even if you did, I could drive to Hartford Ct and still buy a gun right off the street. Perhaps tougher gun laws is the start, ZERO tolerance. Perhaps identify that "US Marshals will be distributed through random schools". Like they did with random planes. You know you see a police officer carrying a gun and society see's and accepts it. There is a town in Texas,North Dakota, and I think UTAH that has open carry of hand guns. Everyone see's it and accepts it. That town in Texas has the lowest Gun related crimes in the country. Perhaps we train some teachers, let them go through those extensive back ground checks and investigations as a police officer. It would seem weird at first but people would accept it as the norm sooner of later.

And before someone tells me "promoting more good guys to have guns would only lead to more shootings". Please provide any creditable study of any kind that would back the statement.

I feel terrible for what has happened, went and grabbed my 11 year out of school early. The Middle school had over 20 parents grabbing their kids and hugging them on the way out.

Forgiveness and tolerance is good to believe in, but sometimes laws and stiffer punishments need to be instituted to set examples.

In defense of your more good guys with guns points, if you look at one of the points in d-usa's link, more guns does not mean more shootings... Israel and Switzerland are proof...

Tsilber wrote:
the shooter was not the same as me...

I live here in CT. Very very sad. But all reports released by the State police so far say "Newton police asked for assistance and upon state police arriving they entered the school"... Why wait for state police? Get in their and do something, i don't understand.

Unless we know exactly what was going on when Newton PD got there, we can't really judge them for not going in right away.

Wow. That is completely fethed up. I'm shocked.

 d3m01iti0n wrote:
You guys still arguing about gun control?!? STFU already. A gun is directed by a PERSON. Complain about the PERSON.

Back to the real issues.

Dude! A lunatic picks up a gun and kills a whole kindergarden class, and you say that no, no, it wouldn't be a smart idea to deny lunatics access to guns?
I mean, you don't have to ban guns or anything, but please make a fething law that requires people to do a mental test before they buy an assault rifle for gods sake! It works really well in Europe!

D-Usa/Tsilber:

If I had to speculate, it was likely because the State Police operate a specialist unit with more experience than Newton's police in situations like this.

 MrMerlin wrote:

Dude! A lunatic picks up a gun and kills a whole kindergarden class, and you say that no, no, it wouldn't be a smart idea to deny lunatics access to guns?
I mean, you don't have to ban guns or anything, but please make a fething law that requires people to do a mental test before they buy an assault rifle for gods sake! It works really well in Europe!

Define "assault rifle."

Apparently some guy posted on 4chan that he was going to kill himself in Connecticut today and that it'd "make the news".

Link is not safe for anywhere:

 Seaward wrote:

 MrMerlin wrote:

Dude! A lunatic picks up a gun and kills a whole kindergarden class, and you say that no, no, it wouldn't be a smart idea to deny lunatics access to guns?
I mean, you don't have to ban guns or anything, but please make a fething law that requires people to do a mental test before they buy an assault rifle for gods sake! It works really well in Europe!

Define "assault rifle."

Clearly it looks like one:



Although I know (and you know) that it shoots just as fast (or slow) as any other semi-automatic rifle, and the true definition of an assault rifle (ability to fire a burst or fully automatic) doesn't matter when the gun is scary looking.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kanluwen wrote:
D-Usa/Tsilber:

If I had to speculate, it was likely because the State Police operate a specialist unit with more experience than Newton's police in situations like this.

That's my thought as well. I don't know if there was still shooting going on when Newton PD got there or not.

Hrm... this makes me wonder... Ohio's gun laws are pretty lax...

I have a feeling that as actual behavioral experts look into the shooter's life, it'll come out that he had psychopathic or sociopathic tendencies, just like the little gakpile that shot-up Columbine HS.
Sure both boyz had been hienously tomented by bullies, but the ringleader was a borderline sociopath who had little to no empathy. There's only 1 solution for that type of crazy, and that's to put such an individual down like a rabid animal because you can't learn a concience; you're either born with one or your not.

Most mass shooters who are mentally ill such as severly depressed or just angry at an individual/group tend to act out against what's specifically peeved them off, or else just take their own life in a less destructive & catastrophic way.
Someone though who goes after the most vulnerable & innocent such as young children, especially after they've killed their intended target/s tend to just be screwed up fethers who can't be helped and need to be locked away in a deep dark place for scociety's protection.



A sad & tragic day for those poor families, an entire community and anyone who can empathise with such young & truely innocent victims.

'May God stand between you and harm, in all the empty places you much walk'
- Ancient Egyptian blessing

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Apparently some guy posted on 4chan that he was going to kill himself in Connecticut today and that it'd "make the news".

Link is not safe for anywhere:

Spoiler:

http://i.imgur.com/l9ru5.jpg

Holy

That's pretty scary.

I wouldn't be against legislation adding mental health evals to gun purchasing stuff.

 d-usa wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
D-Usa/Tsilber:

If I had to speculate, it was likely because the State Police operate a specialist unit with more experience than Newton's police in situations like this.

That's my thought as well. I don't know if there was still shooting going on when Newton PD got there or not.

Just saw this on the news:

Police did not discharge their weapons at any time when responding at the school, police spokesman Lt. Paul Vance told CNN's Wolf Blitzer. However, he could not confirm whether the suspected shooter - who died at the scene - killed himself, saying that would have to be determined by the medical examiner.

Which makes me think that there was no shots being fired when Newton PD got there, and that they might not have known if he was still in there setting up a trap or if he is holding kids hostage. Which would explain the wait for State Police or tactical units.

So it seems like he had a Glock, Sig Sauer and a .223 Bushmaster... my guess is all were legally purchased.

No, i think i will judge the police officers of Newton. The police department gets a call from the school. "Lots of Gun shots fired, kids are hit". Off duty and on duty police officers respond immediately according to state police briefing. They then waited for state police and entered the school.

Kids are being shot, you swore an oath. GTF in the school immediately upon arrival, maybe, MAYBE wait for 1 cop for back up.

I can name 18 parents that would of ran into that school without guns to try to do something...


EDIT: i just saw the above post by d-usa, talking about what Paul Vance said. That is not what he said the first 2 times he did a briefing, an i was watching the briefing live.

The thing about "good" guys is who are the "good" guys? A good guy can snap sometimes too. He finds his wife in bed with his best friends and kills them both?

I'm not against guns or gun laws either. But crime and mental illness have underlying issues that need to be dealt with more than gun laws.

 KalashnikovMarine wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Apparently some guy posted on 4chan that he was going to kill himself in Connecticut today and that it'd "make the news".

Link is not safe for anywhere:

Spoiler:

http://i.imgur.com/l9ru5.jpg

Holy

That's pretty scary.

I'm calling hoax on that.

1) There is no URL in the screenshot.
2) This was posted on Wednesday, and if I know 4chan it would have dropped off well before Friday.
3) I admit that I don't know that much about 4chan, but the quote/reference number asking the OP "where?" doesn't point back to the OP.
4) There are so many "Ima kill everyone" threads on 4chan, what is the chance that somebody just screenshots them all before they drop off?

Of course I could be wrong, but I find it more likely that 4chan is twisted enough to joke about somebody posting that instead of this being real...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Tsilber wrote:
No, i think i will judge the police officers of Newton. The police department gets a call from the school. "Lots of Gun shots fired, kids are hit". Off duty and on duty police officers respond immediately according to state police briefing. They then waited for state police and entered the school.

Kids are being shot, you swore an oath. GTF in the school immediately upon arrival, maybe, MAYBE wait for 1 cop for back up.

I can name 18 parents that would of ran into that school without guns to try to do something...

And I can tell you the name of 18 more victims.

I understand your rage. I used to work for the Fire Department. We would get the same kind of people yelling at us if we don't run into a burning building right away. But making more victims is not going to help anybody, so no Rambo style tactics.

 CDK wrote:
The thing about "good" guys is who are the "good" guys? A good guy can snap sometimes too. He finds his wife in bed with his best friends and kills them both?

I'm not against guns or gun laws either. But crime and mental illness have underlying issues that need to be dealt with more than gun laws.

but the pro's severely out weighs the cons. in 1998 i got my pistol permit, i had to do everything but give a DNA sample. I do not mind doing it and glad they have that kind of check. I go through the same check every 5 years. I admit i do not carry everywhere. But I had front row tickets to hobbit at 12:01 this morning, right by an emergency exit. Better believe i had my gun on me after the batman tragedy earlier this year.

It's a hoax...
1) Lack of url is telling
2) If it was posted on Wednesday, and on /b/ it would be gone 15 minutes later
3) It does reference back to the to OP normally, this image doesn't reference back to a post in the image
4) Highly likely

 Seaward wrote:

 MrMerlin wrote:

Dude! A lunatic picks up a gun and kills a whole kindergarden class, and you say that no, no, it wouldn't be a smart idea to deny lunatics access to guns?
I mean, you don't have to ban guns or anything, but please make a fething law that requires people to do a mental test before they buy an assault rifle for gods sake! It works really well in Europe!

Define "assault rifle."

In this case, feel free to exchange the term with any ballistic instrument which has the capacity to kill and yound many that can be purchased by nearly anyone.
Really, what's the big deal with preventing psychos to buy guns?

 MrMerlin wrote:

 Seaward wrote:

 MrMerlin wrote:

Dude! A lunatic picks up a gun and kills a whole kindergarden class, and you say that no, no, it wouldn't be a smart idea to deny lunatics access to guns?
I mean, you don't have to ban guns or anything, but please make a fething law that requires people to do a mental test before they buy an assault rifle for gods sake! It works really well in Europe!

Define "assault rifle."

In this case, feel free to exchange the term with any ballistic instrument which has the capacity to kill and yound many that can be purchased by nearly anyone.

So any gun that holds more than a few bullets?

d-USA said :

 MrMerlin wrote:

 Seaward wrote:

 MrMerlin wrote:

Dude! A lunatic picks up a gun and kills a whole kindergarden class, and you say that no, no, it wouldn't be a smart idea to deny lunatics access to guns?
I mean, you don't have to ban guns or anything, but please make a fething law that requires people to do a mental test before they buy an assault rifle for gods sake! It works really well in Europe!

Define "assault rifle."

In this case, feel free to exchange the term with any ballistic instrument which has the capacity to kill and yound many that can be purchased by nearly anyone.
Really, what's the big deal with preventing psychos to buy guns?

How do you know they'er psychos to begin with? That's the problem... there's no such thing as Minority Report.

Tsilber wrote:
there is no proof that 18 parents would of been killed. Closing distance on a Gun is considered 21 feet. Even a group of 3-4 has a chance. Now lets say 2 people, carrying guns, bullet proof vest, and trained with guns wearing a badge, has a significant chance.

You might want to go look at the Looking to buy a gun thread here: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/491821.page

We've discussed closing distances and how it's a bad idea.

Also, a year ago a cop fired 13 rounds in 4.3 seconds hitting a suspect 11 times with a pistol... I don't have the training a cop does, but I can hit center mass pretty quickly too...

 MrMerlin wrote:

 Seaward wrote:

 MrMerlin wrote:

Dude! A lunatic picks up a gun and kills a whole kindergarden class, and you say that no, no, it wouldn't be a smart idea to deny lunatics access to guns?
I mean, you don't have to ban guns or anything, but please make a fething law that requires people to do a mental test before they buy an assault rifle for gods sake! It works really well in Europe!

Define "assault rifle."

In this case, feel free to exchange the term with any ballistic instrument which has the capacity to kill and yound many that can be purchased by nearly anyone.
Really, what's the big deal with preventing psychos to buy guns?

Maybe because, it's very difficult if not impossible to tell if someone's a sociopath or has psychopathic tendencies or not? If the shooter just had 'mommy & daddy' issues, odds are he wouldn't have killed a bunch of 4 or 5 year old kids as well...
Just like if a kid is severly bullied and wants to kill their tormentors, they tend to only pick on that one group, (ie: "the jocks" who beat the crap out them on a daily basis), they don't tend go about killing their pre-meditated target/s and then blaze away at random/innocents who are likely wetting themselves in fear.

Saying 'ban guns from crazy peaople' is just as effective as Toronto City Council trying to ban the sale of all bullets within city limits after the Eaton Center mass shooting or the Danzig Streetparty mass shooting.

 d-usa wrote:

 MrMerlin wrote:

 Seaward wrote:

 MrMerlin wrote:

Dude! A lunatic picks up a gun and kills a whole kindergarden class, and you say that no, no, it wouldn't be a smart idea to deny lunatics access to guns?
I mean, you don't have to ban guns or anything, but please make a fething law that requires people to do a mental test before they buy an assault rifle for gods sake! It works really well in Europe!

Define "assault rifle."

In this case, feel free to exchange the term with any ballistic instrument which has the capacity to kill and yound many that can be purchased by nearly anyone.

So any gun that holds more than a few bullets?

Yeah maybe that's not an assault rifle, but still.... you don't want a nutjob to have easy access to even one of those, do you? Because of the amount of lunatics who go on killing sprees wit guns they just bought a few days ago for exactly that.....
Again, I'm in no way saying america should ban guns, just make them harder to get for mass murderers (in germany, the majority of killing sprees are commited with axes, knifes, swords and such, because we have laws that require thorough mental checks for going-to-be gun owners. We don't have near as many causalities here....

Now theyre saying the 20 year old brother was the shooter, and the 24 year old was the one they found hiding in the woods. Who fething knows.

 Alfndrate wrote:

Tsilber wrote:
there is no proof that 18 parents would of been killed. Closing distance on a Gun is considered 21 feet. Even a group of 3-4 has a chance. Now lets say 2 people, carrying guns, bullet proof vest, and trained with guns wearing a badge, has a significant chance.

You might want to go look at the Looking to buy a gun thread here: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/491821.page

We've discussed closing distances and how it's a bad idea.

Also, a year ago a cop fired 13 rounds in 4.3 seconds hitting a suspect 11 times with a pistol... I don't have the training a cop does, but I can hit center mass pretty quickly too...

Im not sure what your saying about the gun firing fast, but my argument was cops should of entered the school prior to waiting for state police.

But in Ct permit class's and police class's (which i've done both of). Statistics show a person getting within 21 feet of a person with a gun has a high rate of survival, of coarse using some sort of cover and charging the suspect not trying to run away.


But this is getting off base now, my pain is for those family members. I went to grab my daughter as i said earlier from her middle school on the oppisite side of the state. I like to think i know how those other parents are going through, but i can not imagine how terrible it is driving to that location wondering if your child is alive. I can;t imagine the pain for those who don't get to hug their children.

Experiment 626 wrote:


Saying 'ban guns from crazy peaople' is just as effective as Toronto City Council trying to ban the sale of all bullets within city limits after the Eaton Center mass shooting or the Danzig Streetparty mass shooting.

Yet banning guns from crazy people seems to work really well in Europe....

Im gonna drop out this discussion. Again i take no offense to what anyone said, and mean no offense with anything i said. Thank you all for your input and constructive comments and criticism on my comments.

you know Miyamoto Musashi said " do not turn you back on the various ways of this world"

but how can you not lose a little faith in humanity after seeing something like this.