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Recently playing against my brother his Lone Wolf FNP'd a wound from Staff of Despair[S8/AP1; vs Ld not T]. At the time it had altogether slipped our minds that you can't FNP a hit that would cause Instant Death, even if you have Eternal Warrior. However my question is whether it counts as an ID attack since its vs Ld or is the determination for ID separate from determining the wound.

If you wound against leadership than instant death is calculated against leadership.

Please cite your source pyrian. The instant death rules make no mention of this, neither do the rules for the abyssal staff.
"If a model suffers a unsaved wound from an attack that has a strength value of double its toughness value or greater (after modifiers), it is reduced to 0 wounds and removed as a casualty."
That is the only requirement for instant death.

Neronoxx wrote:
Please cite your source pyrian. The instant death rules make no mention of this, neither do the rules for the abyssal staff.
"If a model suffers a unsaved wound from an attack that has a strength value of double its toughness value or greater (after modifiers), it is reduced to 0 wounds and removed as a casualty."
That is the only requirement for instant death.

Q: When using an abyssal staff, do you use the target’s Toughness or
Leadership for the purposes of working out if Instant Death applies?
(p84)
A: You use the target’s Leadership.

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2570047a_Necrons_v1.1.pdf

Edit: Ninja'ed

So for the abyssal staff this is true. Do we have any other instances of this ruling?

Neronoxx wrote:
So for the abyssal staff this is true. Do we have any other instances of this ruling?

Yes - pretty much every LD based wound mechanic (I know DE have one as well) has been FAQed the same.

rigeld2 wrote:

Neronoxx wrote:
So for the abyssal staff this is true. Do we have any other instances of this ruling?

Yes - pretty much every LD based wound mechanic (I know DE have one as well) has been FAQed the same.

DE one:

Q: When using Asdrubael Vect’s Obsidian Orbs or the Orbs of Despair,
do you use the target’s Toughness or Leadership for the purposes of
working out if Instant Death applies? (p55)
A: You use the target’s Leadership.

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2570041a_Dark_Eldar_v1.1.pdf

rigeld2 wrote:

Neronoxx wrote:
So for the abyssal staff this is true. Do we have any other instances of this ruling?

Yes - pretty much every LD based wound mechanic (I know DE have one as well) has been FAQed the same.

The problem is that unless every single LD based wounding mechanic has been FAQed, people will question the ones that haven't been updated. Imotek's lighting hitting flyer's is a perfect example of this.

I can't think of any others outside the Staff and the Orbs.

 undertow wrote:
The problem is that unless every single LD based wounding mechanic has been FAQed...

They actually have. It ought to be a general by now, given that they've been FAQ'ing this exact issue repeatedly since 3rd edition's Assassin codex' FAQ.

 undertow wrote:
...people will question the ones that haven't been updated.

There comes a point when precedent should just be accepted.

The callidus assassin from the grey knights codex has one too, the 'neural shredder'.

"Q: When using a Callidus Assassin’s Neural Shredder, do you use the targets Toughness or Leadership for the purposes of working out if Instant Death applies? (p53)
A: You use the target’s Leadership."

For completeness' sake:

Q: When using a Callidus Assassin’s Neural Shredder, do you use the
targets Toughness or Leadership for the purposes of working out if
Instant Death applies? (p53)
A: You use the target’s Leadership.

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2570043a_Grey_Knights_v1.1.pdf

 undertow wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

Neronoxx wrote:
So for the abyssal staff this is true. Do we have any other instances of this ruling?

Yes - pretty much every LD based wound mechanic (I know DE have one as well) has been FAQed the same.

The problem is that unless every single LD based wounding mechanic has been FAQed, people will question the ones that haven't been updated. Imotek's lighting hitting flyer's is a perfect example of this.

Imotek's lightening doesn't hit against Ld Its just straight Str8.

I think he was trying to make a connection between conflicting rules wherein the RAW says one thing and the FAQ gives exceptions or more RAW. For Imotekh's Lightning its about hitting Flyers but the point is moot since the ability auto-hits (I'm assuming the confusion was over not having Skyfire lol. Its a lightning bolt, of course it would have 'skyfire'. Where do you think it came from ) So far the FAQ has not changed Imotekh's ability to fry flyers which unlike most ground vehicles have crap armor which is supposed to be compensated by being Flyers in the first place.

 Grey Templar wrote:

 undertow wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

Neronoxx wrote:
So for the abyssal staff this is true. Do we have any other instances of this ruling?

Yes - pretty much every LD based wound mechanic (I know DE have one as well) has been FAQed the same.

The problem is that unless every single LD based wounding mechanic has been FAQed, people will question the ones that haven't been updated. Imotek's lighting hitting flyer's is a perfect example of this.

Imotek's lightening doesn't hit against Ld Its just straight Str8.

Considering flyers dont have leadership or toughness thats not the comparison undertow is making...though I'd think using Bjorn's invunerable save FAQ as a better example for using FAQ precedent to similar rules. Imotek lightning hitting flyers is a conflict between two FAQ answers not that Imotek's rule needs an FAQ.

He has conflicting FAQ answers? I realize this is off topic so I'll put in in spoilers.


Either way my original question has been answered. Is the ID effect determined by Leadership or Toughness for the purposes of the Abyssal Staff: Leadership.