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So, I heard about a guy (a real WAAC type) going to ground as he charged with a useless combat unit, so that he could soak up overwatch.

while I want to say that this isn't possible, I see nothing that specifically limits it from happening, as the overwatch rules show that it is treated just as shooting normally.

So, can I assault to soak up hits, go to ground and let something else charge freely?

Yup, totally allowed. Go to ground on page 18 even specifically mentions your charge failing automatically if you GtG from Overwatch fire.

Can you also charge knowing you can't reach to soak up the over watch fire?

No to the second one - forbidden in the Declare Charge section on page 20. You can't declare a charge that can't reach the target or a charge on a target you can't see.

Spetulhu wrote:
Yup, totally allowed. Go to ground on page 18 even specifically mentions your charge failing automatically if you GtG from Overwatch fire.

This. It's explicitly allowed.

stokecity_m wrote:Can you also charge knowing you can't reach to soak up the over watch fire?

Spetulhu wrote:No to the second one - forbidden in the Declare Charge section on page 20. You can't declare a charge that can't reach the target or a charge on a target you can't see.

Spetulhu is correct, and further, Overwatch is not automatic, it is always the defenders choice whether or not to Overwatch at a charging unit, so if your enemy charges you with an insignificant unit 12 inches away and you expect him to use this go to ground tactic, you can just choose not to shoot him, hope he fails his charge distance, and wait for the real threat.

note: That then leads into the fact, there is somewhat of a debate over whether the unit being charged becomes locked straight away when something charges it or is still free to shoot until all charges are complete. Which unfortunately, both sides have valid cases so basically you just have to resolve with any gaming group among yourselves.

 Drunkspleen wrote:


Spetulhu is correct, and further, Overwatch is not automatic, it is always the defenders choice whether or not to Overwatch at a charging unit, so if your enemy charges you with an insignificant unit 12 inches away and you expect him to use this go to ground tactic, you can just choose not to shoot him, hope he fails his charge distance, and wait for the real threat.

Chicken! 40k style... you dont want to blink first...

Yup, though Overwatch can't cause Pinning or Morale checks (boo) you can still go to ground against it.

My philosophy regarding those trying Overwatch denial tricks is that Overwatch causes so little damage anyway, that unless the unit has some sort of special rule to Overwatch at full BS or some such, that the benefits of the extra effort are pretty much not worth the return.

Jefffar wrote:
Yup, though Overwatch can't cause Pinning or Morale checks (boo) you can still go to ground against it.

My philosophy regarding those trying Overwatch denial tricks is that Overwatch causes so little damage anyway, that unless the unit has some sort of special rule to Overwatch at full BS or some such, that the benefits of the extra effort are pretty much not worth the return.

As an ork player, I totally disagree with Overwatch causing little damage. I can see lots of overwatch denial tactics being used with orks.

I've taken down a Master of the Forge, a C'tan, Necron Overlord and lychguard, and Cotez with overwatch.

It's something that really can cause a lot of damage with some luck. So it's something that's definately worth denying so a good unit can actually get into CC with all the vitals intact.

Yeah that's the nasty thing about overwatch, sure "on average" it won't do a whole lot, but then there's the rare occasion where your opponent pulls a bucket load of 6s out of his ass and you really feel the pain.

Like when I charged a unit of 15 spinegants with 7 Ymgarls (and picked +1 Toughness for this round). He needed 6s to hit and 6s to wound and I had to fail 4+ saves.

I lost 5 Ymgarls to overwatch. I've also lost MCs to Overwatch from full health. I'd rather not worry about it and soak up overwatch on a unit I don't care about.

Overwatch can also remove just one or two models that are closest in the charging unit, forcing them to need to roll just a little higher to reach assault. It's only when my opponent has a bunch of template weapons (or Prescience) that I start to worry about the casualties themselves.

Overwatch is like rolling double six and a bullseye with a SAG. It almost never has a major effect but when it does DAAAAYMN that was awesome.

Also, you can only declare overwatch once per turn? even if the charge failed/went to ground? I did not know this...hmm...i thought you had to get into contact to begin with to prevent that second group from getting overwatched

Not to mention that any characters that shot will get precision shots. Those are very possible to hurt the charging unit.

Flamers of Tzeentch can wipe out whole heavy infantry units with overwatch--and they're a unit that you want to take out quickly and in assault if possible.

So overwatch denial is important in some cases.

(I realize going to ground isn't going to help you against Tzeentch Flamer fire. But it could happen that you want to try to force the Daemon player to use up his overwatch on a particular unit, and then if he doesn't, you can abort the charge by going to ground--like to leave room for a different, closer unit to charge instead for example. So it's a rule worth knowing.)

GTG isn't going to help versus Flamers... They are really nasty.

 Savageconvoy wrote:
Not to mention that any characters that shot will get precision shots. Those are very possible to hurt the charging unit.

Snap shots can never be precision shots, unfortunately.

Huh. I have never noticed that very last line.

I only discovered it myself fairly recently, it was disappointing for sure

Jefffar wrote:
...Overwatch causes so little damage anyway, ... ...the benefits of the extra effort are pretty much not worth the return.

You bring some badass assault units, I will bring a few large squads of flamers, you charge me, let's see what's left after the charge.

 nolzur wrote:

Jefffar wrote:
...Overwatch causes so little damage anyway, ... ...the benefits of the extra effort are pretty much not worth the return.

You bring some badass assault units, I will bring a few large squads of flamers, you charge me, let's see what's left after the charge.

If you are gonna quote me, include the disclaimer I made about making exceptions for certain units.

Um... correct me if I am wrong, but it was my understanding that this overwatch denial jargon was a null point....
You declare all your legal charges that you are going to make, then your opponent decides on which units they are going to overwatch against, then you resolve overwatch, then you roll for distance.

After your opponent has overwatched, you cannot declare anymore charges.

Nope. You declare and complete charges one at a time.

 Happyjew wrote:
Nope. You declare and complete charges one at a time.

This. You declare and move each charger in sequence. Once you make engage the enemy with one unit, they're no longer able to Overwatch any subsequent charging units.

 Mannahnin wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:
Nope. You declare and complete charges one at a time.

This. You declare and move each charger in sequence. Once you make engage the enemy with one unit, they're no longer able to Overwatch any subsequent charging units.

And this point should just be redirected to the 10+ page thread on when you are engaged. It's no longer about going to ground vs overwatch.

-Matt

Fair enough; although I find that argument as absurd as people trying to claim in 4th or 5th ed that casualty removal can only happen from shooting.

 Drunkspleen wrote:

stokecity_m wrote:

note: That then leads into the fact, there is somewhat of a debate over whether the unit being charged becomes locked straight away when something charges it or is still free to shoot until all charges are complete. Which unfortunately, both sides have valid cases so basically you just have to resolve with any gaming group among yourselves.

How do people feel about that here? Is there a Dakka consensus on that one?

 KamikazeCanuck wrote:

 Drunkspleen wrote:

stokecity_m wrote:

note: That then leads into the fact, there is somewhat of a debate over whether the unit being charged becomes locked straight away when something charges it or is still free to shoot until all charges are complete. Which unfortunately, both sides have valid cases so basically you just have to resolve with any gaming group among yourselves.

How do people feel about that here? Is there a Dakka consensus on that one?

I don't think there is one. I think the majority is on the side of if you get based by charge one you can't overwatch the second one. There are however decent arguments on both sides. (and more than a few stupid ones)