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Seems that I'm hearing that Apoc vehicles are being used in standard games. True, in the front of every rule book, the statement that "the rules are just guidlines" is there. All other rules are supposed to be settled with in-house rules.

I'd like to get some opinions on allowing a single super-heavy or titan on each side of a standard 40K game. Points will most likely be 3k plus.

Thoughts?

If you're using Super Heavies, it simply isn't a standard game of 40k

A Baneblade, for reference, is ~the same amount of firepower and toughness as 3x LRBTs, which is ~the same price.

No, Any baneblade has unequal firepower to any amount of LRMBT's. It does not stop firing any guns until you get the destroy gun result or kill it three times over what is needed to kill a LRMBT.

I am a guard player. I love tanks. I play armoured battlegroup, and love the hell out of it. But I would still argue that any of those main guns are not suited for regular games of 40k.

You want to allow me a superheavy that fills 3 heavy slots? Sure. Shadowsword. First turn. Strength D on your warlord. I get first blood and slay the warlord. Chimeras shove forward with vets and command squads. Go.

Second turn. Vendettas come in to take away whatever could kill the shadowsword. You haven't killed the shadowsword. Strength D kills whatever threatened to take out the shadowsword. You no longer have a viable way to win. You just lost on turn 2. Congratulations on letting someone take a 450 point super heavy.

In many ways, it depends on the superheavy in question. Certainly, there should be no Strength D weapons in a "normal" 40K game. A Malcador or Macharius wouldn't bother me, but a normal Baneblade might be pushing it (although, I would think 3 Leman Russes would be more effective).

In 5th ed (I think) super heavies were a separate detachment. Basically (using 6th ed terminology) it would use up your entire second FOC at 2k points.

 Happyjew wrote:
In 5th ed (I think) super heavies were a separate detachment. Basically (using 6th ed terminology) it would use up your entire second FOC at 2k points.

Super Heavies were never part of the 5th ed FOC. They wer ein the Apocalypse rules, never the core rules.

Now, in my ignorance, I realize that you stated both sides have access to them, and at 3k+ points.
I can begin to see how this all might even out, but I would argue that some regulations be put in place:

-Obvious, but must be said; both sides must agree to the use of super heavies
-1 structure point = 1 heavy support slot. Support slots cannot be used from another detachment's heavy supports, so maximum of 3 structure points on any model.
+I argue this because facing anything more than a warhound titan can be somewhat insurmountable for any army, and it often comes down to "who goes first?"
-Gargantuan Creatures: 3 wounds = 1 heavy support slot. Same rules as above apply.
+Not familiar with gargantuan creature wound values, but this seemed fair off the top of my head. Correct me if wrong.
-No strength D. If you really want to field a model with strength D, simplify it to S10 AP1 with armorbane.
-3k+ point level games only.

Just off the top of my head, but seems like a simple set of rules, trying not to allow anything super weird.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Or, just play Spearhead if you want rules set up. Actually, that would be much easier as they allow for some pretty insanely large games with one FOC

 curran12 wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:
In 5th ed (I think) super heavies were a separate detachment. Basically (using 6th ed terminology) it would use up your entire second FOC at 2k points.

Super Heavies were never part of the 5th ed FOC. They wer ein the Apocalypse rules, never the core rules.

One of the battle missions (heresy, I know) was a 1500 point army vs 3 baneblades. However, I do recall a rule staying that super heavies were a separate detachment (most likely one of the forge world books (at an open bar so I cannot check)).

If you're playing at 3k+ anyway you're already at Apoc levels, so superheavies are fine as long as everyone knows about it. Doesn't it become Apoc at the 3k mark?

You can play games at absurdly large point levels now with double primary detachments + allies. 3k is just the reccomended minimum level to play apoc at.

Pretty sure forge world had only made the super heavies for very large games that you made special scenarios.

None of the army lists provided by forge world allow the use of super heavies in them as far as I am aware.

iN A INTERVEIW ABOUT 6TH THEY SAID REASON YOU GET MORE foc AT 2K IS THEY THOUGHT 2K IS APOC GAME IN 6TH.

 curran12 wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:
In 5th ed (I think) super heavies were a separate detachment. Basically (using 6th ed terminology) it would use up your entire second FOC at 2k points.

Super Heavies were never part of the 5th ed FOC. They wer ein the Apocalypse rules, never the core rules.

One mision from coolest Battle missions, and Spearhead, also the Age of Darkness Battles (30k or HH).

captain-crud wrote:
iN A INTERVEIW ABOUT 6TH THEY SAID REASON YOU GET MORE foc AT 2K IS THEY THOUGHT 2K IS APOC GAME IN 6TH.

Why are you capping? Good lord calm yourself. What interview? Where? Links and the normal internet protocol is needed ya?

in the Spearhead exapnsion you coudl take a single super-heavy in your 40k army.

I think it had to start in reserve or soemthign though.

Nenya97 wrote:
No, Any baneblade has unequal firepower to any amount of LRMBT's. It does not stop firing any guns until you get the destroy gun result or kill it three times over what is needed to kill a LRMBT.

I am a guard player. I love tanks. I play armoured battlegroup, and love the hell out of it. But I would still argue that any of those main guns are not suited for regular games of 40k.

You want to allow me a superheavy that fills 3 heavy slots? Sure. Shadowsword. First turn. Strength D on your warlord. I get first blood and slay the warlord. Chimeras shove forward with vets and command squads. Go.

Second turn. Vendettas come in to take away whatever could kill the shadowsword. You haven't killed the shadowsword. Strength D kills whatever threatened to take out the shadowsword. You no longer have a viable way to win. You just lost on turn 2. Congratulations on letting someone take a 450 point super heavy.

Enemy seizes the initiative. Drop Pod Sternguard makes a mockery of your Shadowsword. Woop.

Bonecrusher 6 wrote:
Seems that I'm hearing that Apoc vehicles are being used in standard games. True, in the front of every rule book, the statement that "the rules are just guidlines" is there. All other rules are supposed to be settled with in-house rules.

I'd like to get some opinions on allowing a single super-heavy or titan on each side of a standard 40K game. Points will most likely be 3k plus.

Thoughts?

A 3K game isnt standard 40k... Thats apoc...

If you and your friends want to use a titan go for it, but its never gonna fly in a real tournament that I know of.

I'd happily trade my 3 LR tanks to be able to take a StormLord instead.

S10 AP1 10" ordinance blast that ignores cover saves, 2 lascannons, 2 twin linked heavy flamers/heavy bolters and the hull TL heavy bolter @ 475 points seems perfectly fine in a 2000 point game. ;P

**EDIT** I meant StormSword, not StormLord, doh!

Where did you StromLord get a S10 AP1 cannon?

I think the Baneblade cannon is Ap2.
The StormLord has a Vulcan Megabolter.

 Praxiss wrote:
Where did you StromLord get a S10 AP1 cannon?

I think the Baneblade cannon is Ap2.
The StormLord has a Vulcan Megabolter.

My bad, I meant the StormSword, stupid GW and their tank names! This one - http://www.oocities.org/shinjukumouichido/stormsword.pdf

If you will allow me too i will....... Try getting close to my tank when its protected by Vanguard......

Nenya97 wrote:

You want to allow me a superheavy that fills 3 heavy slots? Sure. Shadowsword. First turn. Strength D on your warlord. I get first blood and slay the warlord. Chimeras shove forward with vets and command squads. Go.

I am not sure how many shots you get with your Shadowsword, But i guarantee that a warlord titan would still be standing after you shoot it with your (i am guessing at the ammout of shots) 2 STR D shots. Unless your talking about a warhound titan... You would still have to bring down 2 void shields, then 3 structure points.


How many STR D shots can any IG tank put out?

Now that I am reading this... I feel like an idiot... I am sure you meant warlord as in your HQ warlord. *facepalm*

Thanks, ya'll. The superheavy seemed to be a bit much for less than a 2K point game, but 3K sounded about right. I've not played since 2nd ed. and am just now getting back into it.

While not in a "Standard" game, using IA5: Siege of Vraks Part 1's rules for Death Korps of Krieg Siege Regiment, you could bring a Super Heavy Detachment including models up to the Reaver Titan Maniple. All Super Heavy Detachments had a 1-3 limit on models (ie, 1-3 taken from Baneblade, Shadowsword, etc..., 1-3 Macharius vehicles, 1-3 Reavers, etc...).