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2012/12/20 16:04:56
Subject: Would gun laws alone deter you from living in a certain place?
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Fixture of Dakka
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reds8n wrote: AustonT wrote:reds8n wrote:
Plus of course the figures quoted for the USA must be wwaayy off or otherwise the sheer number of times a firearm saves someone in the USA presented on this board over and over again are completely inaccurate.
Care to expand, using numbers?
It's in the Conn. shooting thread.
Apparently civilian owned guns prevent somewhere from 100,000 to 2.5 million muggings/rapes/home invasions/murders/etc etc per year.
Which if we then factor the crimes that are commited and if the higher end figures are true, is getting near Mega-City One figures.
You've failed to mention how that number is inaccurate.
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 Avatar 720 wrote:You see, to Auston, everyone is a Death Star; there's only one way you can take it and that's through a small gap at the back.
Come check out my Blood Angels,Crimson Fists, and coming soon Eldar
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/391013.page
I have conceded that the Eldar page I started in P&M is their legitimate home. Free Candy! Updated 10/19.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/391553.page
Powder Burns wrote:what they need to make is a fullsize leatherman, like 14" long folded, with a bone saw, notches for bowstring, signaling flare, electrical hand crank generator, bolt cutters..
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2012/12/20 16:05:53
Subject: Re:Would gun laws alone deter you from living in a certain place?
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5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)
Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!
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 mega_bassist wrote:Well, I live in Illinios, so it doesn't get much worse (at least in our country)! I would've moved to Missouri already if I wasn't tied down to IL for personal reasons. But, no, I would never move to a state/country where the gun laws are more strict.
Come on over brother!
But you don't have to move... you can store your weapons with me  .
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Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
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2012/12/20 16:10:12
Subject: Would gun laws alone deter you from living in a certain place?
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[DCM]
Et In Arcadia Ego
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AustonT wrote:reds8n wrote: AustonT wrote:reds8n wrote:
Plus of course the figures quoted for the USA must be wwaayy off or otherwise the sheer number of times a firearm saves someone in the USA presented on this board over and over again are completely inaccurate.
Care to expand, using numbers?
It's in the Conn. shooting thread.
Apparently civilian owned guns prevent somewhere from 100,000 to 2.5 million muggings/rapes/home invasions/murders/etc etc per year.
Which if we then factor the crimes that are commited and if the higher end figures are true, is getting near Mega-City One figures.
You've failed to mention how that number is inaccurate.
Mathematics.
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The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
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2012/12/20 16:16:30
Subject: Re:Would gun laws alone deter you from living in a certain place?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
St. Louis, Missouri
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 whembly wrote: mega_bassist wrote:Well, I live in Illinios, so it doesn't get much worse (at least in our country)! I would've moved to Missouri already if I wasn't tied down to IL for personal reasons. But, no, I would never move to a state/country where the gun laws are more strict.
Come on over brother!
But you don't have to move... you can store your weapons with me .
Hahaha, I see what you're up to 
I work north of STL, and I'm here often enough, trust me! Anywho, I'm excited that IL is finally getting concealed carry license!
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2012/12/20 16:35:58
Subject: Would gun laws alone deter you from living in a certain place?
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Fixture of Dakka
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 reds8n wrote: AustonT wrote:reds8n wrote: AustonT wrote:reds8n wrote:
Plus of course the figures quoted for the USA must be wwaayy off or otherwise the sheer number of times a firearm saves someone in the USA presented on this board over and over again are completely inaccurate.
Care to expand, using numbers?
It's in the Conn. shooting thread.
Apparently civilian owned guns prevent somewhere from 100,000 to 2.5 million muggings/rapes/home invasions/murders/etc etc per year.
Which if we then factor the crimes that are commited and if the higher end figures are true, is getting near Mega-City One figures.
You've failed to mention how that number is inaccurate.
Mathematics.
That's remarkably useless, thanks for that.
WHAT numbers are these "mathematics" based on. Hense why I asked to to expand with numbers in my original response.
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Avatar 720 wrote:You see, to Auston, everyone is a Death Star; there's only one way you can take it and that's through a small gap at the back.
Come check out my Blood Angels,Crimson Fists, and coming soon Eldar
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/391013.page
I have conceded that the Eldar page I started in P&M is their legitimate home. Free Candy! Updated 10/19.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/391553.page
Powder Burns wrote:what they need to make is a fullsize leatherman, like 14" long folded, with a bone saw, notches for bowstring, signaling flare, electrical hand crank generator, bolt cutters..
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2012/12/20 16:42:10
Subject: Re:Would gun laws alone deter you from living in a certain place?
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[DCM]
Et In Arcadia Ego
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The article cites the recorded crimes.
Apparently there are an extra 100,00 to 2.5 million events that require the sue of a gun to resolve but would not be included in the figures in the article
So either the violent crime rate is higher than the one in the article, or the number of extra events is incorrectly recorded.
One would assume/hope it's the latter.
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The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
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2012/12/20 16:51:57
Subject: Would gun laws alone deter you from living in a certain place?
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Jovial Plaguebearer of Nurgle
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 SilverMK2 wrote: Soladrin wrote:I'm gonna state the opposite, so my anwser to this is still yes.
I wouldn't move to a place with your gun laws.
I would agree. I am all for being able to shoot (and would love to be able to do so in the UK), but almost completely unregulated sale and use of guns? No thanks. You have to pass tests to prove you can drive a car before you can go out on the roads on your own, why don't you need to do the same things if you want to have/use a gun?
An initial test/course teaching gun safety in use, storage and maintainence, psychological evaluation, criminal background check and so on, as well as ensuring each person has a gun safe for their weapons and ammo, then on completion (assuming you pass), you get a gun licence, against which your purchases are registered, and which you need to provide to prove you are able to buy guns and ammo at your local gun store (same as if want to rent a car you need to present your driving licence) allowing them to check that a) you have one and b) it is valid and c) to register your purchases against you.
Close loopholes like gun show sales and other "private" sales and ensure that all sales are recorded (so if you sell a gun it is registered with the central agency that you have sold it and who to) and you will have a system with very little impact on the vast majority of gun owners but with a little more safety built in.
Throw in a short re-evaluation course every 5-10 years and manditory reporting by the health services of any mental problems to the gun regulation authority and I think that will really help for the minimum of hassle.
Love this post it is dead on.
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 Heralds of Rot CSM 4000 pts
"In short there is no Order only Chaos eternal so lament and be quelled with fear if you serve the False Emperor or accept the gifts bestowed by the pantheon of the four gods and rejoice as the galaxy burns." - Unknown Wordbearer |
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2012/12/20 16:54:56
Subject: Would gun laws alone deter you from living in a certain place?
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[DCM]
The Main Man
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Actually, in the US as far as I know flamethrowers aren't banned. They might be illegal in some states, but not all.
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2012/12/20 17:58:42
Subject: Re:Would gun laws alone deter you from living in a certain place?
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Fixture of Dakka
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reds8n wrote:The article cites the recorded crimes.
Apparently there are an extra 100,00 to 2.5 million events that require the sue of a gun to resolve but would not be included in the figures in the article
So either the violent crime rate is higher than the one in the article, or the number of extra events is incorrectly recorded.
One would assume/hope it's the latter.
I'm going to go ahead and assume you are referring to an article you failed to post a link to since neither the BBC or Mail article include data from the US.
So since you continue to evade the question I'll go ahead and assume that you don't actually know the answer it just sounds better to say things like.
reds8n wrote: the sheer number of times a firearm saves someone in the USA presented on this board over and over again are completely inaccurate.
I'll just go ahead and give you the answer.
https://www.ncjrs.gov/App/publications/Abstract.aspx?id=162693 wrote:
The most technically sound estimates presented in Table 2 are those based on the shorter one-year recall period that rely on Rs' first-hand accounts of their own experiences (person-based estimates). These estimates appear in the first two columns. They indicate that each year in the U.S. there are about 2.2 to 2.5 million DGUs of all types by civilians against humans, with about 1.5 to 1.9 million of the incidents involving use of handguns.
Are these estimates plausible? Could it really be true that Americans use guns for self-protection as often as 2.1 to 2.5 million times a year? The estimate may seem remarkable in comparison to expectations based on conventional wisdom, but it is not implausibly large in comparison to various gun-related phenomena. There are probably over 220 million guns in private hands in the U.S., [57] implying that only about 1% of them are used for defensive purposes in any one year--not an impossibly high fraction. In a December 1993 Gallup survey, 49% of U.S. households reported owning a gun, and 31% of adults reported personally owning one. [58] These figures indicate that there are about 47.6 million households with a gun, with perhaps 93 million, or 49% of the adult U.S. population living in households with guns, and about 59.1 million adults personally owning a gun. Again, it hardly seems implausible that 3% (2.5 million/93 million) of the people with immediate access to a gun could have used one defensively in a given year
How could such a serious thing happen so often without becoming common knowledge? This phenomenon, regardless of how widespread it really is, is largely an invisible one as far as governmental statistics are concerned. Neither the defender/victim nor the criminal ordinarily has much incentive to report this sort of event to the police, and either or both often have strong reasons not to do so. Consequently, many of these incidents never come to the attention of the police, while others may be reported but without victims mentioning their use of a gun. And even when a DGU is reported, it will not necessarily be recorded by the police, who ordinarily do not keep statistics on matters other than DGUs resulting in a death, since police record-keeping is largely confined to information helpful in apprehending perpetrators and making a legal case for convicting them. Because such statistics are not kept, we cannot even be certain that a large number of DGUs are not reported to the police.
It is now clear that virtually none of the victims who use guns defensively tell interviewers about it in the NCVS. Our estimates imply that only about 3% of DGUs among NCVS Rs are reported to interviewers. [62] Based on other comparisons of alternative survey estimates of violent events with NCVS estimates, this high level of under-reporting is eminently plausible. Loftin and Mackenzie reported that rapes might be thirty-three times as frequent as NCVS estimates indicate, while spousal violence could easily be twelve times as high.
Weird right?
Oh right mathematics.
I suppose that if DGUs ONLY occurred during reported violent victimization when that study was produced that would be 2.5:16.8 which is what 14.88%
And lets see the most recent NCVS report 5.8M violent victimization that's 863,000. well within the broad range you seem to think is inaccurate.
I know right? Mathematics. It requires numbers.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/12/20 17:59:43
Avatar 720 wrote:You see, to Auston, everyone is a Death Star; there's only one way you can take it and that's through a small gap at the back.
Come check out my Blood Angels,Crimson Fists, and coming soon Eldar
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/391013.page
I have conceded that the Eldar page I started in P&M is their legitimate home. Free Candy! Updated 10/19.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/391553.page
Powder Burns wrote:what they need to make is a fullsize leatherman, like 14" long folded, with a bone saw, notches for bowstring, signaling flare, electrical hand crank generator, bolt cutters..
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2012/12/20 18:19:57
Subject: Re:Would gun laws alone deter you from living in a certain place?
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[DCM]
Et In Arcadia Ego
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From the Daily mail article...
In the UK, there are 2,034 offences per 100,000 people, way ahead of second-placed Austria with a rate of 1,677.
The U.S. has a violence rate of 466 crimes per 100,000 residents, Canada 935, Australia 92 and South Africa 1,609.
and the quote was " or the sheer number of times a firearm saves someone in the USA etc etc "
the first word there being quite key.
carrying on...
from your quote
This phenomenon, regardless of how widespread it really is, is largely an invisible one as far as governmental statistics are concerned. Neither the defender/victim nor the criminal ordinarily has much incentive to report this sort of event to the police, and either or both often have strong reasons not to do so. Consequently, many of these incidents never come to the attention of the police, while others may be reported but without victims mentioning their use of a gun. And even when a DGU is reported, it will not necessarily be recorded by the police, who ordinarily do not keep statistics on matters other than DGUs resulting in a death, since police record-keeping is largely confined to information helpful in apprehending perpetrators and making a legal case for convicting them. Because such statistics are not kept, we cannot even be certain that a large number of DGUs are not reported to the police.
..w hich is exactly what I've been saying. That the figures quoted are either true -- in which case there can't be the X million times per year that people need to draw/shoot/whatever -- or -- the figures for the USA are wrong as apparently there's X million cases per year that apparently go "under the radar" and aren't recorded which the figures do not reflect.
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The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
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2012/12/20 19:08:01
Subject: Re:Would gun laws alone deter you from living in a certain place?
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Imperial Admiral
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Huh. I just found out Diane Feinstein, currently leading the gun control charge, had a concealed carry permit in the mid-nineties when she was worried about threats to her safety.
Ain't no hypocrisy like Congressional hypocrisy.
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2012/12/20 19:11:27
Subject: Re:Would gun laws alone deter you from living in a certain place?
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Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor
Gathering the Informations.
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 Seaward wrote:Huh. I just found out Diane Feinstein, currently leading the gun control charge, had a concealed carry permit in the mid-nineties when she was worried about threats to her safety.
Ain't no hypocrisy like Congressional hypocrisy.
Advocating gun control while owning a gun is not necessarily hypocrisy.
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2012/12/20 19:15:13
Subject: Re:Would gun laws alone deter you from living in a certain place?
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5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)
The Great State of Texas
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 Kanluwen wrote: Seaward wrote:Huh. I just found out Diane Feinstein, currently leading the gun control charge, had a concealed carry permit in the mid-nineties when she was worried about threats to her safety.
Ain't no hypocrisy like Congressional hypocrisy.
Advocating gun control while owning a gun is not necessarily hypocrisy.
And by that you mean its pretty much the definition of it.
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-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
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2012/12/20 19:16:05
Subject: Re:Would gun laws alone deter you from living in a certain place?
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Imperial Admiral
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Kanluwen wrote:Advocating gun control while owning a gun is not necessarily hypocrisy.
Sorry. I should have said, "while having previously stated that she would ban all firearms if she could."
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2012/12/20 19:17:17
Subject: Re:Would gun laws alone deter you from living in a certain place?
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Avatar of the Bloody-Handed God
Inside your mind, corrupting the pathways
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 Frazzled wrote: Kanluwen wrote: Seaward wrote:Huh. I just found out Diane Feinstein, currently leading the gun control charge, had a concealed carry permit in the mid-nineties when she was worried about threats to her safety.
Ain't no hypocrisy like Congressional hypocrisy.
Advocating gun control while owning a gun is not necessarily hypocrisy.
And by that you mean its pretty much the definition of it.
I own a car, I would not be a hypocrite if I suggested that driving tests should be more rigorous before people could go out on the roads.
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2012/12/20 19:22:53
Subject: Re:Would gun laws alone deter you from living in a certain place?
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Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor
Gathering the Informations.
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Seaward wrote: Kanluwen wrote:Advocating gun control while owning a gun is not necessarily hypocrisy.
Sorry. I should have said, "while having previously stated that she would ban all firearms if she could."
Can you source this statement?
I'm genuinely intrigued to see the context of when she made it. I've only been aware of Feinstein as advocating a renewal/broadening of the "assault weapons" ban.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Frazzled wrote: Kanluwen wrote: Seaward wrote:Huh. I just found out Diane Feinstein, currently leading the gun control charge, had a concealed carry permit in the mid-nineties when she was worried about threats to her safety.
Ain't no hypocrisy like Congressional hypocrisy.
Advocating gun control while owning a gun is not necessarily hypocrisy.
And by that you mean its pretty much the definition of it.
Advocating gun control while owning a gun is not necessarily hypocrisy.
Gun control, despite your rather narrow-minded view of the concept, is not simply "Take all the guns!". It covers proposals from more stringent requirements to own a gun to banning guns entirely. Context matters though.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/12/20 19:24:57
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2012/12/20 19:24:36
Subject: Re:Would gun laws alone deter you from living in a certain place?
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5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)
The Great State of Texas
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SilverMK2 wrote: Frazzled wrote: Kanluwen wrote: Seaward wrote:Huh. I just found out Diane Feinstein, currently leading the gun control charge, had a concealed carry permit in the mid-nineties when she was worried about threats to her safety.
Ain't no hypocrisy like Congressional hypocrisy.
Advocating gun control while owning a gun is not necessarily hypocrisy.
And by that you mean its pretty much the definition of it.
I own a car, I would not be a hypocrite if I suggested that driving tests should be more rigorous before people could go out on the roads.
Thats awesome but not an appropriate example. A better example would be that you own a car but have attempted to pass legislation that would prohibit everyeone else from driving a car.
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-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
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2012/12/20 19:25:15
Subject: Re:Would gun laws alone deter you from living in a certain place?
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Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor
Gathering the Informations.
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Frazzled wrote: SilverMK2 wrote: Frazzled wrote: Kanluwen wrote: Seaward wrote:Huh. I just found out Diane Feinstein, currently leading the gun control charge, had a concealed carry permit in the mid-nineties when she was worried about threats to her safety.
Ain't no hypocrisy like Congressional hypocrisy.
Advocating gun control while owning a gun is not necessarily hypocrisy.
And by that you mean its pretty much the definition of it.
I own a car, I would not be a hypocrite if I suggested that driving tests should be more rigorous before people could go out on the roads.
Thats awesome but not an appropriate example. A better example would be that you own a car but have attempted to pass legislation that would prohibit everyeone else from driving a car.
So concealed carry permits now apply to rifles?
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2012/12/20 19:37:05
Subject: Re:Would gun laws alone deter you from living in a certain place?
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5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)
The Great State of Texas
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Kanluwen wrote: Frazzled wrote: SilverMK2 wrote: Frazzled wrote: Kanluwen wrote: Seaward wrote:Huh. I just found out Diane Feinstein, currently leading the gun control charge, had a concealed carry permit in the mid-nineties when she was worried about threats to her safety. Ain't no hypocrisy like Congressional hypocrisy.
Advocating gun control while owning a gun is not necessarily hypocrisy.
And by that you mean its pretty much the definition of it.
I own a car, I would not be a hypocrite if I suggested that driving tests should be more rigorous before people could go out on the roads.
Thats awesome but not an appropriate example. A better example would be that you own a car but have attempted to pass legislation that would prohibit everyeone else from driving a car.
So concealed carry permits now apply to rifles?
Now you're being ignorant. You know the ban applied to pistol magazines as well, and she made statements that she would like to ban all guns.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/12/20 19:37:41
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
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2012/12/20 19:41:12
Subject: Re:Would gun laws alone deter you from living in a certain place?
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Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor
Gathering the Informations.
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Frazzled wrote: Kanluwen wrote: Frazzled wrote: SilverMK2 wrote: Frazzled wrote: Kanluwen wrote: Seaward wrote:Huh. I just found out Diane Feinstein, currently leading the gun control charge, had a concealed carry permit in the mid-nineties when she was worried about threats to her safety.
Ain't no hypocrisy like Congressional hypocrisy.
Advocating gun control while owning a gun is not necessarily hypocrisy.
And by that you mean its pretty much the definition of it.
I own a car, I would not be a hypocrite if I suggested that driving tests should be more rigorous before people could go out on the roads.
Thats awesome but not an appropriate example. A better example would be that you own a car but have attempted to pass legislation that would prohibit everyeone else from driving a car.
So concealed carry permits now apply to rifles?
Now you're being ignorant. You know the ban applied to pistol magazines as well, and she made statements that she would like to ban all guns.
I do not know that "she made statements that she would like to ban all guns". Seaward's post is the first I've heard of that.
The ban applied to "high capacity" pistol magazines, did it not?
That's rhetorical. I know it did. I do also know that it was rather arbitrary on what constituted a "high capacity" magazine.
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2012/12/20 19:42:21
Subject: Re:Would gun laws alone deter you from living in a certain place?
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Fixture of Dakka
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Kanluwen wrote: Seaward wrote: Kanluwen wrote:Advocating gun control while owning a gun is not necessarily hypocrisy.
Sorry. I should have said, "while having previously stated that she would ban all firearms if she could."
Can you source this statement?
I'm genuinely intrigued to see the context of when she made it. I've only been aware of Feinstein as advocating a renewal/broadening of the "assault weapons" ban.
Feinstein said on CBS-TV's 60 Minutes, February 5, 1995, "If I could have gotten 51 votes in the Senate of the United States for an outright ban, picking up every one of them . . . Mr. and Mrs. America, turn 'em all in, I would have done it. I could not do that. The votes weren't here."
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Avatar 720 wrote:You see, to Auston, everyone is a Death Star; there's only one way you can take it and that's through a small gap at the back.
Come check out my Blood Angels,Crimson Fists, and coming soon Eldar
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/391013.page
I have conceded that the Eldar page I started in P&M is their legitimate home. Free Candy! Updated 10/19.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/391553.page
Powder Burns wrote:what they need to make is a fullsize leatherman, like 14" long folded, with a bone saw, notches for bowstring, signaling flare, electrical hand crank generator, bolt cutters..
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2012/12/20 19:44:47
Subject: Would gun laws alone deter you from living in a certain place?
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5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)
The Great State of Texas
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Banning guns addresses a fundamental right
of all Americans to feel safe."
http://quotes.liberty-tree.ca/quote_blog/Dianne.Feinstein.Quote.2C1A
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-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
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2012/12/20 19:53:17
Subject: Re:Would gun laws alone deter you from living in a certain place?
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Old Sourpuss
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Kanluwen wrote: Frazzled wrote: SilverMK2 wrote: Frazzled wrote: Kanluwen wrote: Seaward wrote:Huh. I just found out Diane Feinstein, currently leading the gun control charge, had a concealed carry permit in the mid-nineties when she was worried about threats to her safety.
Ain't no hypocrisy like Congressional hypocrisy.
Advocating gun control while owning a gun is not necessarily hypocrisy.
And by that you mean its pretty much the definition of it.
I own a car, I would not be a hypocrite if I suggested that driving tests should be more rigorous before people could go out on the roads.
Thats awesome but not an appropriate example. A better example would be that you own a car but have attempted to pass legislation that would prohibit everyeone else from driving a car.
So concealed carry permits now apply to rifles?
What can I say, I got big pockets 
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DR:80+S++G+M+B+I+Pwmhd11#++D++A++++/sWD-R++++T(S)DM+
 
Ask me about Brushfire or Endless: Fantasy Tactics |
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2012/12/20 19:53:54
Subject: Re:Would gun laws alone deter you from living in a certain place?
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Imperial Admiral
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AustonT wrote:Feinstein said on CBS-TV's 60 Minutes, February 5, 1995, "If I could have gotten 51 votes in the Senate of the United States for an outright ban, picking up every one of them . . . Mr. and Mrs. America, turn 'em all in, I would have done it. I could not do that. The votes weren't here."
Sounds right to me, I knew it was an old interview.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/12/20 19:54:08
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2012/12/20 19:55:30
Subject: Re:Would gun laws alone deter you from living in a certain place?
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Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor
Gathering the Informations.
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AustonT wrote:Kanluwen wrote: Seaward wrote: Kanluwen wrote:Advocating gun control while owning a gun is not necessarily hypocrisy.
Sorry. I should have said, "while having previously stated that she would ban all firearms if she could."
Can you source this statement?
I'm genuinely intrigued to see the context of when she made it. I've only been aware of Feinstein as advocating a renewal/broadening of the "assault weapons" ban.
Feinstein said on CBS-TV's 60 Minutes, February 5, 1995, "If I could have gotten 51 votes in the Senate of the United States for an outright ban, picking up every one of them . . . Mr. and Mrs. America, turn 'em all in, I would have done it. I could not do that. The votes weren't here."
I'm still very skeptical on this; especially given the ellipses which are used to denote omitted material.
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2012/12/20 19:58:34
Subject: Re:Would gun laws alone deter you from living in a certain place?
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Imperial Admiral
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Kanluwen wrote:
I'm still very skeptical on this; especially given the ellipses which are used to denote omitted material.
Why, out of curiosity? Even if it's taken out of context - I don't think it is, but I honestly can't remember - it's the next step. She knows as well as anyone that the AWB had zero impact on crime, or even gun sales. It's showpiece legislation that accomplishes nothing, and for people who are actually serious about trying to cut down on firearm homicides - which were cutting themselves down just fine before all this - you need to do more to be able to claim some responsibility than banning scary-looking guns.
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2012/12/20 19:59:51
Subject: Would gun laws alone deter you from living in a certain place?
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Old Sourpuss
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Just a cursory search Kan, finding more "valid sources"
http://www.rkba.org/antis/feinstein.60-minutes.5feb95
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DR:80+S++G+M+B+I+Pwmhd11#++D++A++++/sWD-R++++T(S)DM+
Ask me about Brushfire or Endless: Fantasy Tactics |
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2012/12/20 20:08:15
Subject: Re:Would gun laws alone deter you from living in a certain place?
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5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)
The Great State of Texas
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 Alfndrate wrote: Kanluwen wrote: Frazzled wrote: SilverMK2 wrote: Frazzled wrote: Kanluwen wrote: Seaward wrote:Huh. I just found out Diane Feinstein, currently leading the gun control charge, had a concealed carry permit in the mid-nineties when she was worried about threats to her safety.
Ain't no hypocrisy like Congressional hypocrisy.
Advocating gun control while owning a gun is not necessarily hypocrisy.
And by that you mean its pretty much the definition of it.
I own a car, I would not be a hypocrite if I suggested that driving tests should be more rigorous before people could go out on the roads.
Thats awesome but not an appropriate example. A better example would be that you own a car but have attempted to pass legislation that would prohibit everyeone else from driving a car.
So concealed carry permits now apply to rifles?
What can I say, I got big pockets
Some men require bigger pockets than others... 
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-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
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2012/12/20 20:24:38
Subject: Would gun laws alone deter you from living in a certain place?
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Old Sourpuss
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DR:80+S++G+M+B+I+Pwmhd11#++D++A++++/sWD-R++++T(S)DM+
Ask me about Brushfire or Endless: Fantasy Tactics |
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2012/12/20 20:27:31
Subject: Re:Would gun laws alone deter you from living in a certain place?
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Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor
Gathering the Informations.
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Seaward wrote: Kanluwen wrote:
I'm still very skeptical on this; especially given the ellipses which are used to denote omitted material.
Why, out of curiosity? Even if it's taken out of context - I don't think it is, but I honestly can't remember - it's the next step. She knows as well as anyone that the AWB had zero impact on crime, or even gun sales. It's showpiece legislation that accomplishes nothing, and for people who are actually serious about trying to cut down on firearm homicides - which were cutting themselves down just fine before all this - you need to do more to be able to claim some responsibility than banning scary-looking guns.
Honestly?
Because for such an important quote, I cannot find an actual video of that 60 Minutes interview. I just keep finding that quote and "transcripts" of the show. Some of the quotes have ellipses and some do not. Automatically Appended Next Post:
Which brings up another point.
I can find NO mention of that quote prior to the timeframe for the AWB expiring.
Unless I am utterly and completely missing something, it just seems to not exist.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/12/20 20:29:37
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And if you're drinkin' well, you know that you're my friend and I say "I think I'll have myself a beer" 
