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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/22 02:30:33
Subject: Re:Why Leman Russ?
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Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator
Croatia
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O I agree with you completely...this pic was just to show IMHO most similar tank to Leman Russ...If someone has a better comparisiion, I'm really interested to see it....
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ADB: I showed the Wolves revealing the key weakness at the heart of the World Eaters; showing Angron that his Legion was broken and worthless compared to the others; that he was the one primarch who couldn't trust his own warriors, and that they didn't care if he lived or died; showing that loyalty to brothers and sons is the heart of success for the Legiones Astartes, to the point even Lorgar makes a big deal out of saying the World Eaters and their primarch were massively outclassed by Russ, and Angron was too stupid to see the lesson Russ had sacrificed time, sweat, and blood, to teach. We're talking about a battle the Wolves won, by isolating the enemy general through pack tactics, and threatening to kill him, without a hope of defending himself. It was a balance, 50/50 - Angron overpowered Russ, and the Wolves were losing ground to the World Eaters; but Russ and his warriors had Angron by the balls, and barely broke a sweat. They won, no question. Lorgar even says: "The Wolves won, meathead."
Dorn won’t help you either. He’s too busy being the Emperor’s groundskeeper, hiding behind the palace walls. The Wolf is too busy cutting off heads as our father’s executioner, while the Lion holds on to his secrets, and has no special fondness for you. Who else will come? Not Ferrus, certainly. Nor Corax either. Even as we speak, I suspect he flees for Deliverance. Sanguinius?’ Curze laughed cruelly. ‘The angel is more cursed than I. The Khan? He does not wish to be found. So who is left? No one, Vulkan. None of them will come. You are simply not that important. You are alone.’ Konrad Curze to Vulkan
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/22 03:47:10
Subject: Why Leman Russ?
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Regular Dakkanaut
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pretre wrote: purplefood wrote:Bran Dawri wrote:You mean the Omnissiah, right?
Anyway, to answer the OP's question:
Way back in Rogue Trader, Leman Russ was an Imperial Guard general who had the tank named after him.
When 2nd Editiomn turned him into a Primarch, the background was retconned to Russ discovering the STC in the early days of the Great Crusade, and the Imperial Army naming it the Leman Russ tank in his honour.
This.
I'm amused that it took 2 pages to get the right answer.
He was however never described as a member of the Imperial Army/Guard.
The RT rulebook stated he was appointed as an Adeptus Terra special agent then promoted to Imperial Commander Lucan two year later and being instrumental in Founding Astartes Unit 4 Space Wolves. (Imperial Commander = lesser Lord of Terra, either a planetary governor or a Space Marine Chapter Master, in Leman Russes case both)
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/22 08:16:18
Subject: Re:Why Leman Russ?
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Furious Fire Dragon
In my game room playing Specialist GW games
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This is from White Dwarf 365, june 2010, page 17.
This is what Dave Andrews had to say about the Leman Russ when they came out with the then new Leman Russ Battle Tank kit.
"What's interesting about the tanks of the 41st millenium", Dave says, leaning back in his chair and pointing to a nearby Leman Russ, "is that they're science fiction vehicles, but unlike any you'll see elsewhere. Take the Imperial Guard tanks. In truth they share more in common with a tank from the interwar period of the 20th Century than they do a modern battle tank or anything "futuristic". They have curiously misshapen hulls, riveted armour plates and absolutely no aesthetic concession to the technological advances we have nowadays. Imperial Guard tanks don't even have proper, sloped armour, and that's quite deliberate. Their design spawns from the thought process of what a fundamentally "backwards" tank would look like 38,000 years in the future in a place where technological understanding has collapsed and innovation is outlawed. The Imperium is archaic and backwards, clinging to the remnants of incredible technologies such as plasma cannons and las-weapons. The image is so exciting and unusual because these misunderstood innovations are embedded in fighting vehicles that make a modern tank look like a technical marvel."
Seems to me, all the complaints you have about the tank are designed that way on purpose
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2012/12/22 08:20:38
"Khorne is a noble warrior who respects strength and bravery, who takes no joy in destroying the weak, and considers the helpless unworthy of his wrath. It is said that fate will spare any brave warrior who calls upon Khorne's name and pledges his soul to the blood god. It is also said that Khorne's daemons will hunt down and destroy any warrior who betrays his honour by killing a helpless innocent or murdering in cold blood..."
from the Renegades supplement for Epic Space Marine, page 54-55
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/22 08:31:23
Subject: Why Leman Russ?
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Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot
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Except the fluff disagrees. In fluff its not a backward, under powered and outclassed tank. Its the lord of war, better then any take fielded by powers who understand their own tech. . So more contradictions from GW,I am shocked. They try to make it both effect and backward and it more or less fails.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/12/22 08:40:45
Engine of War wrote:Duct Tape! the Ommnisiahs blessed bindings! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/22 08:38:14
Subject: Re:Why Leman Russ?
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Furious Fire Dragon
In my game room playing Specialist GW games
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Did it occur to you that it is simply propaganda? something the Imperium would need in spades just to convince someone to get in that POS?
Every time I read fluff about the Leman Russ, it always sounds like they are being talked up to be more than they are by some faceless announcer, as if he must convince us of it's superiority in battle (like the Guard talks about EVERYTHING in their army) .
I think the fluff fits it fine.
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"Khorne is a noble warrior who respects strength and bravery, who takes no joy in destroying the weak, and considers the helpless unworthy of his wrath. It is said that fate will spare any brave warrior who calls upon Khorne's name and pledges his soul to the blood god. It is also said that Khorne's daemons will hunt down and destroy any warrior who betrays his honour by killing a helpless innocent or murdering in cold blood..."
from the Renegades supplement for Epic Space Marine, page 54-55
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/22 08:41:15
Subject: Why Leman Russ?
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Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot
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Oh I agree the fluff is fine, the model simply does not match it at all.
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Engine of War wrote:Duct Tape! the Ommnisiahs blessed bindings! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/22 08:43:19
Subject: Why Leman Russ?
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Battleship Captain
Calixis Sector
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Well, the Guard and the Leman Russ have won war after war over ten thousand years.
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"In every age, in every place, the deeds of men remain the same" |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/22 08:46:14
Subject: Why Leman Russ?
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Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot
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which shows us the fluff is wrong or the model is. Its one or the other, I tend to think its the crap model ( which isn't in freaking scale anyhow)
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Engine of War wrote:Duct Tape! the Ommnisiahs blessed bindings! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/22 08:48:19
Subject: Re:Why Leman Russ?
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Furious Fire Dragon
In my game room playing Specialist GW games
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I disagree, I think the tank perfectly matches the fluff, especially in light of the way the studio is designing them. They are supposed to look that way and work that way.
Remember, it isn't just one tank that is winning the wars and becoming the gods of war, its legions of tanks. thousands or maybe even millions of those things. That's what makes them a god of war. The fact that they can be made of pretty much anything, and can withstand so much punishment from the crew. Not that they are super survivable and super teched out.
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"Khorne is a noble warrior who respects strength and bravery, who takes no joy in destroying the weak, and considers the helpless unworthy of his wrath. It is said that fate will spare any brave warrior who calls upon Khorne's name and pledges his soul to the blood god. It is also said that Khorne's daemons will hunt down and destroy any warrior who betrays his honour by killing a helpless innocent or murdering in cold blood..."
from the Renegades supplement for Epic Space Marine, page 54-55
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/22 08:49:35
Subject: Why Leman Russ?
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Battleship Captain
Calixis Sector
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Hunterindarkness wrote: which shows us the fluff is wrong or the model is. Its one or the other, I tend to think its the crap model ( which isn't in freaking scale anyhow) I agree. Its probably the models; the Imperium's war machines are far more effective than they look. Roadkill Zombie wrote:I disagree, I think the tank perfectly matches the fluff, especially in light of the way the studio is designing them. They are supposed to look that way and work that way. Remember, it isn't just one tank that is winning the wars and becoming the gods of war, its legions of tanks. thousands or maybe even millions of those things. That's what makes them a god of war. The fact that they can be made of pretty much anything, and can withstand so much punishment from the crew. Not that they are super survivable and super teched out. That can't be right. Pretty sure Vanquisher-pattern/Conqueror-pattern Leman Russ tanks can rip apart Falcons and Hammerheads with ease.
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2012/12/22 08:51:57
"In every age, in every place, the deeds of men remain the same" |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/22 08:53:17
Subject: Why Leman Russ?
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Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot
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Yep game stats they are the best tank or damned near it. The model does not t match because that thing could not win vs a WW2 Sherman much less a hammer head or a Falcon.
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Engine of War wrote:Duct Tape! the Ommnisiahs blessed bindings! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/22 08:53:23
Subject: Re:Why Leman Russ?
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Furious Fire Dragon
In my game room playing Specialist GW games
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I'm pretty sure it depends on what rules set you are talking about. If it is 4th edition, I challenge you to rip apart a falcon with an Eradicator. In 5th, close to the same...but in 6th, you are probably right.
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"Khorne is a noble warrior who respects strength and bravery, who takes no joy in destroying the weak, and considers the helpless unworthy of his wrath. It is said that fate will spare any brave warrior who calls upon Khorne's name and pledges his soul to the blood god. It is also said that Khorne's daemons will hunt down and destroy any warrior who betrays his honour by killing a helpless innocent or murdering in cold blood..."
from the Renegades supplement for Epic Space Marine, page 54-55
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/22 08:56:42
Subject: Re:Why Leman Russ?
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Battleship Captain
Calixis Sector
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Roadkill Zombie wrote:I'm pretty sure it depends on what rules set you are talking about. If it is 4th edition, I challenge you to rip apart a falcon with an Eradicator. In 5th, close to the same...but in 6th, you are probably right.
I'll defer to your expertise on the TT; my knowledge is focused on BFG and general information. AFAIK, out of all tanks in the game, the Leman Russ and its variants aren't that special, but their overall performance is supposed to be the most balanced/reliable.
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"In every age, in every place, the deeds of men remain the same" |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/22 08:56:52
Subject: Re:Why Leman Russ?
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Furious Fire Dragon
In my game room playing Specialist GW games
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But that isn't how Leman Russ tanks win wars. How many stories have you read where the tanks of the IG survive much of the fighting? Not many of them do.
It's the fact that the guard can field so damn many of them that is making them be the better tank. Sure, one on one the Leman Russ would probably get kicked to the curb if it had a design like that, but imagine 10,000 of them in one battle...while you've got maybe 100. That's how the guard uses Leman Russ tanks. Not as good tanks in any respect, it's just a numbers game to them.
Throw enough tanks at the problem until it goes away.
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"Khorne is a noble warrior who respects strength and bravery, who takes no joy in destroying the weak, and considers the helpless unworthy of his wrath. It is said that fate will spare any brave warrior who calls upon Khorne's name and pledges his soul to the blood god. It is also said that Khorne's daemons will hunt down and destroy any warrior who betrays his honour by killing a helpless innocent or murdering in cold blood..."
from the Renegades supplement for Epic Space Marine, page 54-55
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/22 08:57:06
Subject: Why Leman Russ?
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Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot
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It does not matter the rule set, in any the model should be dead meat vs any of them or all of them. Its a crap design that is past backward.The fluff and the mechanics simple do not match the idea of a "backward" tank. And the sweet gods knows that one is winning nothing...11 MM of steel riveted, wide open flat spaced armor......
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/12/22 08:57:58
Engine of War wrote:Duct Tape! the Ommnisiahs blessed bindings! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/22 08:57:29
Subject: Why Leman Russ?
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Battleship Captain
Calixis Sector
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Hunterindarkness wrote:Yep game stats they are the best tank or damned near it. The model does not t match because that thing could not win vs a WW2 Sherman much less a hammer head or a Falcon.
Actually its more of a British Mk. I fitted with a turret.
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"In every age, in every place, the deeds of men remain the same" |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/22 08:58:36
Subject: Why Leman Russ?
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Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot
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Admiral Valerian wrote: Hunterindarkness wrote:Yep game stats they are the best tank or damned near it. The model does not t match because that thing could not win vs a WW2 Sherman much less a hammer head or a Falcon.
Actually its more of a British Mk. I fitted with a turret.
It is a Mk1 with a turret. I meant the Russ could not take a Sherman.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/12/22 08:59:15
Engine of War wrote:Duct Tape! the Ommnisiahs blessed bindings! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/22 08:58:38
Subject: Why Leman Russ?
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Battleship Captain
Calixis Sector
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Hunterindarkness wrote:It does not matter the rule set, in any the model should be dead meat vs any of them or all of them. Its a crap design that is past backward.The fluff and the mechanics simple do not match the idea of a "backward" tank. And the sweet gods knows that one is winning nothing...11 MM of steel riveted, wide open flat spaced armor...... Ignoring stupid fluff and tech-ignorant authors was the best decision I ever made. I knew it.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/12/22 08:59:12
"In every age, in every place, the deeds of men remain the same" |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/22 09:01:15
Subject: Why Leman Russ?
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Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot
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Sadly in 40k that is all of them or near enough. GW has pretty terrible setting management. You have to pick your source and ignore all others.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/12/22 09:01:44
Engine of War wrote:Duct Tape! the Ommnisiahs blessed bindings! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/22 09:01:40
Subject: Why Leman Russ?
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Rough Rider with Boomstick
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Admiral Valerian wrote:That can't be right. Pretty sure Vanquisher-pattern/Conqueror-pattern Leman Russ tanks can rip apart Falcons and Hammerheads with ease.
That's believable because the Vanquisher has a far longer barrel than the standard Leman Russ, allowing greater travel time for the shell in the barrel which means a greater velocity is reached before it leaves the muzzle, so it hits a lot harder than the LR's standard 'battle cannon'. It's akin to the difference between the Hotchkiss H35 & the Hotchkiss H35/39. The former had a short barrelled 37mm cannon intended for infantry support (firing off HE) whilst the latter had a longer barrelled 37mm cannon intended for taking on tanks.
The Leman Russ reminds me of the Medium MkII tank in service with the British army during the 20s/30s with its ridiculous height and slab-sided hull;
The advantages of the Leman Russ is that it isn't a hard tank to build, so armoured regiments can field loads of them and when they're track-to-track that slab-sided armour doesn't matter, the height also because they're throwing out so much firepower en masse that anyone sticking their head up is going to get it blown apart.
The model is not a truly scaled representation in the same way a Rhino isn't and also in the way Cadian plastics can be as big as plastic Space Marines - just the way they've been sculpted. The more accurately proportioned tanks are generally found on Forgeworld with ones like the beautiful Malcador.
Actually it could. If you consider the weapons the Leman Russ faces & can quite happily take hits from and consider what its battle cannon can do, then the M4 Sherman with it's low velocity 75mm cannon, thin armour & also high profile would have great difficulty.
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This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2012/12/22 09:15:01
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/22 09:02:20
Subject: Why Leman Russ?
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Battleship Captain
Calixis Sector
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Hunterindarkness wrote: Admiral Valerian wrote: Hunterindarkness wrote:It does not matter the rule set, in any the model should be dead meat vs any of them or all of them. Its a crap design that is past backward.The fluff and the mechanics simple do not match the idea of a "backward" tank. And the sweet gods knows that one is winning nothing...11 MM of steel riveted, wide open flat spaced armor...... Ignoring stupid fluff and tech-ignorant authors was the best decision I ever made. Sadly in 40k that is all of them or near enough. GW has pretty terrible setting management. You have to pick your source and ignore all others. Whatever doesn't make sense is ignored or put on the 'later' shelf until it makes sense. EDIT: @Roadkill Zombie What about the Conqueror? From what I know, the Vanquisher is getting rarer and rarer following the loss of the Forge World that produced them, and the Conqueror is supposed to be another high-performance Leman Russ variant.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/12/22 09:04:08
"In every age, in every place, the deeds of men remain the same" |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/22 09:03:43
Subject: Why Leman Russ?
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Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot
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Most tanks from the cold war would be simple as hell for most Imperium worlds to build. They may be backward but most who make tanks could crank them out pretty damned easy.
And no, really go look at the MkI, slap a turret on it.
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Engine of War wrote:Duct Tape! the Ommnisiahs blessed bindings! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/22 09:05:12
Subject: Why Leman Russ?
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Battleship Captain
Calixis Sector
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Hunterindarkness wrote:Most tanks from the cold war would be simple as hell for most Imperium worlds to build. They may be backward but most who make tanks could crank them out pretty damned easy. As I said before, Leopard II tanks (made and upgraded with 40k technology) would definitely equal more butthurt for the Imperium's enemies. And no, really go look at the MkI, slap a turret on it.
I did and I did. EDIT: Fluff-wise, the Leman Russ should handle the Sherman or any of our 'modern' tanks with ease. Model-wise? Whoever tries to make that design work IRL would probably end up a laughingstock.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/12/22 09:08:08
"In every age, in every place, the deeds of men remain the same" |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/22 09:06:10
Subject: Why Leman Russ?
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Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot
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heh was taking to the post above you Admiral, ya somehow got in while I posted.
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Engine of War wrote:Duct Tape! the Ommnisiahs blessed bindings! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/22 09:08:50
Subject: Why Leman Russ?
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Rough Rider with Boomstick
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Yeah, I'd forgotten about the track shape, although it's far more pronounced upon the Malcador than the LR. Best to make sure you have the right image in your head when talking about the looks of something, hey? I blame my hangover.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/12/22 09:09:37
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/22 09:11:18
Subject: Why Leman Russ?
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Battleship Captain
Calixis Sector
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Mk. 1
Looks like a Leman Russ without a turret. Come to think of it, that looks suspiciously like a Land Raider.
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"In every age, in every place, the deeds of men remain the same" |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/22 09:12:26
Subject: Re:Why Leman Russ?
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Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot
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Russ
vs
MKI
There are better images of both but yeah its the same base chassis, GW just sucks at scale.
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2012/12/22 09:17:50
Engine of War wrote:Duct Tape! the Ommnisiahs blessed bindings! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/22 09:13:40
Subject: Why Leman Russ?
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Battleship Captain
Calixis Sector
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What do you know...they look alike (read sarcasm). GW...
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/12/22 09:14:26
"In every age, in every place, the deeds of men remain the same" |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/22 09:18:28
Subject: Why Leman Russ?
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Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot
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Could also be a Mark VIII with a turret..if it was scale. This never existed was made by hollywood.
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Engine of War wrote:Duct Tape! the Ommnisiahs blessed bindings! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/22 09:19:33
Subject: Why Leman Russ?
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Battleship Captain
Calixis Sector
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That thing is a hunk of junk. I'd bet even the crappy tanks used by the IJA during WWII would rip that thing apart.
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"In every age, in every place, the deeds of men remain the same" |
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