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Well it is why they were replaced. The Mark VIII was a intrawar tank not a WWI tank however.

Given the WWII feel of the Imperial Guard, the Tiger II or the Panther would be a better base for the Imperial Guard's MBTs.

I am messing around with making a guard army. I used Panzer i's for my Hellhounds. Prob go something like a bulldog for the russ. The scales are never right as ya know GW's scale is just bad.

 Hunterindarkness wrote:
I am messing around with making a guard army. I used Panzer i's for my Hellhounds. Prob go something like a bulldog for the russ. The scales are never right as ya know GW's scale is just bad.

The former is good, since both the Panzer I and the Hellhound are light tanks, but I disagree with the Bulldog. The Leman Russ is an MBT, while the Bulldog is a light tank. A medium or heavy tank would be a better choice IMHO.

I would also like that too, for every Guard Regiment to use it's unique 40k tank variants.

I would immediately start to collect Valhallans with their T-34's

 Brother Captain Alexander wrote:
I would also like that too, for every Guard Regiment to use it's unique 40k tank variants.

I would immediately start to collect Valhallans with their T-34's

Thankfully, there's no need to do the same for the Imperial Navy and Co. The standard models for Imperial and other warships are quite satisfactory. Except for the Tau; personally for some reason I find their warship designs somewhat unsatisfactory.

 Admiral Valerian wrote:

 Hunterindarkness wrote:
I am messing around with making a guard army. I used Panzer i's for my Hellhounds. Prob go something like a bulldog for the russ. The scales are never right as ya know GW's scale is just bad.

The former is good, since both the Panzer I and the Hellhound are light tanks, but I disagree with the Bulldog. The Leman Russ is an MBT, while the Bulldog is a light tank. A medium or heavy tank would be a better choice IMHO.

The bulldog is a medium tank. But mostly its scale isn't to bad for 40k, a heavy tank often are way to large. The bulldog is about 6 or 6.25 inches, which should scale pretty good on the table I think. something like most late WW2 heavy tanks will be larger, well out of scale with 40k, like 8 to 10 inches or so with more modern takes often between 11 and 15 inches.



Not my image but shows the scale.

 Hunterindarkness wrote:

The bulldog is a medium tank.

Er no, it was a light tank - an upgunned replacement for the Chaffee, still had only half the armour of a Sherman.

 Hunterindarkness wrote:

Not my image but shows the scale.

You mean it shows A scale. I'm guessing your talking about 1:35th, its a bit nonsensical to talk about what scale tanks are the right size when you don't give the scale.

a WW2 Leman russ, sans sponsons...

the Char B1 bis, I hate to say it was actually a bit sleeker than the Leman.

and it came in a Vanquisher model too..


a decent scale for alternate models is 1/48th but alot of the details end up being a bit on the small side, especially the main armament.

1/40th or 42nd would be almost perfect, but practically does not exist.

So much anger over a fictional tank.

@ SerQuintus, yes its 1/35th scale. I looked at 1/48th scale which are small, the 1/35 just look big next to the underscaled 40k vees but are right next to the figs.

And then the Tau discover an STC for video players that have Gundam Episodes stored. The end is near...

@topic
The reason why Leman Russ tanks have big cannons is that when the AdMechs (one of the 2 poisons killing the Imperium; the other being the Ecclesiarchy) showed Leman Russ what was stored in the STC, Leman Russ said "I AM INSULTED! The cannon is so small! You have to make the cannon big, like this!"

Proceeds to remove his Artificer Armour and shows his phallus.

A King Tiger to replace the Leman Russ. so you replace a tank that depends on sheer numbers to survive, with one of the worst AFVs in history, the King Tiger was more like a slightly faster basilisk. It could barely carry its own weight due to it using an engine designed for a medium tank. in 40k its like using the engine from a chimera to power a shadowsword. if anything the better tank designs to base the Leman Russ on would be the Soviet built T-55 series designed for all of the crappier members of the Warsaw Pact. Its a rugged design that also relied on numbers to gain superiority on the battlefield over NATO AFVs.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Soo'Vah'Cha wrote:
a WW2 Leman russ, sans sponsons...

the Char B1 bis, I hate to say it was actually a bit sleeker than the Leman.

and it came in a Vanquisher model too..


a decent scale for alternate models is 1/48th but alot of the details end up being a bit on the small side, especially the main armament.

1/40th or 42nd would be almost perfect, but practically does not exist.

also the the first picture is a French Char B1s, whereas the second picture is an American M6 heavy tank from the interwar period.

This would be a better replacement.

Really, GW's explanation for the model is quite weak, as it's supposed to be a Crusade-era rediscovery, from, you know, the peak of the Imperium's power and prowess.

Which is why, in rules and in fluff, it is a rolling death machine.

My group has discussed the Russ to some extent (almost every player at my FLGS has a Guard army, ranging from a few hundred points, to tens of thousands) and the model really is one of the most schizophrenic parts of the Imperial Guard.

Consider, by comparison, the Chimera, Basilisk, Manticore, Hellhound and so on. Save for the stupid rivets on everything, these vehicles and chassis are not impractical or particularly poorly designed. Not "optimized" per se, but science fiction rarely is. They've got low profiles, good slopes on the frontal armour, a clear focus on function, without impractically huge cannons.

In truth, the Chimera is not far removed from the BMP series, which have been a highly successful support vehicle line, and the other guard light vehicles use this well layed out chassis to serve other purposes, with a greater level of standardization than most modern militaries can claim.

Every other vehicle in the Guard armoury makes a fair degree of sense, and sans riveting, they're not really offensive.

Much like how FW redesigned the Lightning to match the navy aesthetic they've established, it would not take much effort to bring the Russ more in line with the rest of established, and more logical, guard aesthetic.

 sierra 1247 wrote:
A King Tiger to replace the Leman Russ. so you replace a tank that depends on sheer numbers to survive, with one of the worst AFVs in history, the King Tiger was more like a slightly faster basilisk. It could barely carry its own weight due to it using an engine designed for a medium tank. in 40k its like using the engine from a chimera to power a shadowsword. if anything the better tank designs to base the Leman Russ on would be the Soviet built T-55 series designed for all of the crappier members of the Warsaw Pact. Its a rugged design that also relied on numbers to gain superiority on the battlefield over NATO AFVs.
.

Well half the problem with the Tiger II was that the production plant was bombed to oblivion and back. If they had the plant intact, they could have fixed up the issues faster than they did. And when it was fixed up, the Tiger II was as fast as any other tank.

That being said, I would have chosen the Panther as a Russ replacement. Faster, more numerous, and still mounting a formidable gun.

 sierra 1247 wrote:
A King Tiger to replace the Leman Russ. so you replace a tank that depends on sheer numbers to survive, with one of the worst AFVs in history, the King Tiger was more like a slightly faster basilisk. It could barely carry its own weight due to it using an engine designed for a medium tank. in 40k its like using the engine from a chimera to power a shadowsword. if anything the better tank designs to base the Leman Russ on would be the Soviet built T-55 series designed for all of the crappier members of the Warsaw Pact. Its a rugged design that also relied on numbers to gain superiority on the battlefield over NATO AFVs.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Soo'Vah'Cha wrote:
a WW2 Leman russ, sans sponsons...

the Char B1 bis, I hate to say it was actually a bit sleeker than the Leman.

and it came in a Vanquisher model too..


a decent scale for alternate models is 1/48th but alot of the details end up being a bit on the small side, especially the main armament.

1/40th or 42nd would be almost perfect, but practically does not exist.

also the the first picture is a French Char B1s, whereas the second picture is an American M6 heavy tank from the interwar period.

I usually never post corrections but know it alls need to be called out..
this is a M6


the second pic was of a failed french heavy tank design the ARL-44

Arcsquad12 wrote:

 sierra 1247 wrote:
A King Tiger to replace the Leman Russ. so you replace a tank that depends on sheer numbers to survive, with one of the worst AFVs in history, the King Tiger was more like a slightly faster basilisk. It could barely carry its own weight due to it using an engine designed for a medium tank. in 40k its like using the engine from a chimera to power a shadowsword. if anything the better tank designs to base the Leman Russ on would be the Soviet built T-55 series designed for all of the crappier members of the Warsaw Pact. Its a rugged design that also relied on numbers to gain superiority on the battlefield over NATO AFVs.
.

Well half the problem with the Tiger II was that the production plant was bombed to oblivion and back. If they had the plant intact, they could have fixed up the issues faster than they did. And when it was fixed up, the Tiger II was as fast as any other tank.

That being said, I would have chosen the Panther as a Russ replacement. Faster, more numerous, and still mounting a formidable gun.

That and also the huge indecisiveness of the Nazi high command, as there were far too many prototype super heavy tanks and such towards the end of the war to feasibly support, thus vital materials were wasted on the prototypes of AFVs that would never see any action (E.100 and Maus) if Germany had any chance of turning the war around in regards to tanks, they should have stuck with the panther and maybe ironed out the problems of the Tiger I, and also that was far too late in the war for it to make any impact in favour for the axis powers (thank you Allied Bomber Command)

Soo'Vah'Cha wrote:

 sierra 1247 wrote:
A King Tiger to replace the Leman Russ. so you replace a tank that depends on sheer numbers to survive, with one of the worst AFVs in history, the King Tiger was more like a slightly faster basilisk. It could barely carry its own weight due to it using an engine designed for a medium tank. in 40k its like using the engine from a chimera to power a shadowsword. if anything the better tank designs to base the Leman Russ on would be the Soviet built T-55 series designed for all of the crappier members of the Warsaw Pact. Its a rugged design that also relied on numbers to gain superiority on the battlefield over NATO AFVs.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Soo'Vah'Cha wrote:
a WW2 Leman russ, sans sponsons...

the Char B1 bis, I hate to say it was actually a bit sleeker than the Leman.

and it came in a Vanquisher model too..


a decent scale for alternate models is 1/48th but alot of the details end up being a bit on the small side, especially the main armament.

1/40th or 42nd would be almost perfect, but practically does not exist.

also the the first picture is a French Char B1s, whereas the second picture is an American M6 heavy tank from the interwar period.

I usually never post corrections but know it alls need to be called out..
this is a M6


the second pic was of a failed french heavy tank design the ARL-44

My mistake there thanks for the correction, the arour plating around the tracks just made me think of the M6.

no problem, itsrefreshing to find someone that admits to a mistake, no harm no foul

and my personal opinion is they should have stuck with the Tiger I so much cool stuff in that design, but my opinion of course.

My opinion is : The Imperium is so large I think the Leman Russ is the most seen tank around the galaxy but there must be a lot of design around the Imperium. From Tiger look a like to T-34 look a like thats why my next IG army wont have any of GW models for tanks but I will use the bits to make them more 40K like. BTW lots of ideas down here for alternatives tank design ! I always tought about the Renault FT-17 but Its hard to find !

 Soo'Vah'Cha wrote:
no problem, itsrefreshing to find someone that admits to a mistake, no harm no foul

and my personal opinion is they should have stuck with the Tiger I so much cool stuff in that design, but my opinion of course.

cheers, and the turrets on the Tiger I was badass although the tank destroyer variant of the Tiger I was just awful. Hetzer all the way .

 sierra 1247 wrote:

 Soo'Vah'Cha wrote:
no problem, itsrefreshing to find someone that admits to a mistake, no harm no foul

and my personal opinion is they should have stuck with the Tiger I so much cool stuff in that design, but my opinion of course.

cheers, and the turrets on the Tiger I was badass although the tank destroyer variant of the Tiger I was just awful. Hetzer all the way .

You dont like the Jadgtiger ? This big useless tank hunter design ?

you could always try the Landkreuzer p. 1500 Monster. When Nazi Germany decides to build a Shadowsword.

Jagdpanther was the sexiest of the ww2 tank destroyers, Hetzer was its cute little sister, jadgtiger was the fat stepsister they used to pull a plow


But back to the Leman Russ tank..I have a distinct suspicion its original use was as some form of agri-tractor, and due to the wonderful inovations and needs of the human race, somebody at some point stuck a turret and guns on it..and it soldiered on for the next thousands of years.

Now its heresy to suggest such an grand defender of the IoM was a lowly plow puller or hauler of hay, its a Tank damnit!

There have been some good ones here. Models are not much higher and in some cases much cheaper then GW Models. I have seen the tiger branded about a bit. The bitch is scale, which you more or less need to eyeball. Some times 1/35 works best, others 1/48th. From what I can ell the best scale is simply to place a mini next to it as we all know how off scale" the vee's GW put out are.

 Soo'Vah'Cha wrote:
Jagdpanther was the sexiest of the ww2 tank destroyers, Hetzer was its cute little sister, jadgtiger was the fat stepsister they used to pull a plow


But back to the Leman Russ tank..I have a distinct suspicion its original use was as some form of agri-tractor, and due to the wonderful inovations and needs of the human race, somebody at some point stuck a turret and guns on it..and it soldiered on for the next thousands of years.

Now its heresy to suggest such an grand defender of the IoM was a lowly plow puller or hauler of hay, its a Tank damnit!

You are so right ! 88mm Pak watch out shermans !

you can use parts from some 1/35th scale tanks, but any medium tanks of the ww2 era forward are going to be alot larger than the LRMBT, and likely border on the size of a landraider (not that, thats a bad thing)

and 1/48th scale the hull and tracks are pretty spot on, I have a 1/48th scale tiger I and it almost exacly the same size hull wise, as a LRMBT, but its gun , and hatches are way to small to be in keeping with the 40k asthetic.

So barring some 1/40th scale models, scratch builing is about the best solution, or even rebuilding 40k models into something more pleasing to the eye (I may try my hand at that sometime soon).

I built a Aliens APC (from the movie ) from scratch (just plastic card and bits) and made sure it was to scale with GW minis, so indulge your creative side and build your own dream Leman Russ tank1

I have started a thread over in the paint section for folks that would like to share what they have used as replacements.

@Soo'fah'cha, Yeah they are all bigger then the Russ, which is not a bad thing as the Russ is well off scale..its freaking tiny. I picked the walker up on a whim for around 8 bucks. I was gonna just build it as a tank but have been thinking I could use some bitz and 40k it well enough. The scale is large for the Russ, but is scaled nicely with the minis.

It could be worse for the leman russ though. it could have been based off the german A7v tank

IIRC from a White Dwarf article, in the Index Astartes timeline when Russ and the Lion were rushing back to the Siege of Terra, Russ kept stopping in various systems to clean house/pee on fire hydrants/whatever. One of those systems was a Forge World that produced tanks for the Imperial Guard. They named the tanks after him as a tribute.