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They can on the top end, but it is unlikely that is the norm. A Russ regiment could have few as 35 or as many as 250. Very few I guess ever stay at Full numbers for their regiment with combat losses and such.

As for the Size of a regiment l it is as follows.( from page 9 for the 5th ed IG codex)

1 regiment is 3 to 20 companies.
1 Company is 3 to 6 platoons

Heavy units such as the russ count as a a squadron (platoon) 3 being the max size of a Squad. So 9 to a "company" And we know 20 Companies are the upper limit in a single regiment. So a large tank Regiment would be roughly 180 Leman Russ tanks or about 1200 crew.

We also know from the same book it is rare for a full Tank regiment to be deployed as a single unit, much less multiple tank Regiments.

Geez, the Leman russ must have crapped in someone's cereal this morning. Too many people who really have issues with the design of this fictional toy tank.

One of the reasons I got into the Imperial Guard is because I loved the retro look of the tanks. Who cares if its realistic or not? Half the way this game plays is totally unrealistic.

Some of us care man. its a hobby, people Normally care about hobbies. its about 50/50 on the IG tanks from what i can tell, many who play IG do not use the standard models ( I shall not be). And the Russ is not retro, its down right archaic that does not match the rest of the Ig look in the lest.

I'm pretty sure leman russ saved a bunch of guardsmen during the first war of armageddon so they named thier tank after him to honor him.

TheCustomLime wrote:
The Regal Dorn Battle Tank? The Ferrus Manus Battle Tank?

The Vulkan Batle Tank would be way cooler.

 Color Sgt. Kell wrote:
I'm pretty sure leman russ saved a bunch of guardsmen during the first war of armageddon so they named thier tank after him to honor him.

Nope. The first War for Armageddon was fought between Angron and a World Eater Army against the Imperial Guard, Space Wolves and Grey Knights. After the Grey Knights banished Angron, the Inquisition rolled up and herded every single human on the planet into concentration camps and purged the entire population. They would be expunged of Chaos taint and new people would be brought in to populate the world.

The guy you are thinking of is Logan Grimnar, the Space Wolves chapter master. He was outraged at the Inquisitions actions and publicly revealed their crimes. See Logan is one of the people who thinks that killing everyone you just saved rather defeats the purpose. The Wolves and the Inquisition haven't been on good terms since the incident.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Legion of Flame wrote:

TheCustomLime wrote:
The Regal Dorn Battle Tank? The Ferrus Manus Battle Tank?

The Vulkan Batle Tank would be way cooler.

Replace all hellhounds with Vulkan Flame Tanks.

Most tanks in 40k would be useless, if real, they are based on early tanks from WW1 (and some from WW2). There is so many things in 40K which is debatable in a real setting (spacemarins on bikes, drop pods, boarding torpedoes etcetera).

The Leman Rus is awesome becaus my commisar says so, anything else is heresy!

I personally don't mind the look of the Leman Russ. I've always liked the look of the treads on it. And I don't really care what anyone else thinks about it, to me it's a cool looking tank. The tanks I can't stand are the Space Marine tanks. Talk about boring looking tanks..they fit the bill there.

Oddly those are based off a more modern design then the Russ, but APC's not tanks.

Hmm maybe they use the leman russ because most people in the far future of the 41st millennium use energy weapons so a "modern" tank designed to stop Kinetic Energy weapons wouldnt do diddly dam squat agianst them. Heck the basic lasgun would turn a Modern MBT into a slag heap after a few shots (or 1 at full power). And has anyone ever thought that maybe the leman russ doesn't actually have riveted armor and the Adeptus mechanicus have no idea what they are and just weld them on because they are shown in the stc.

TheCustomLime wrote:
The Regal Dorn Battle Tank? The Ferrus Manus Battle Tank?

Ferrus Deus would be an awesome name for a tank and fitting, too.

Ninjacommando wrote:
Hmm maybe they use the leman russ because most people in the far future of the 41st millennium use energy weapons so a "modern" tank designed to stop Kinetic Energy weapons wouldnt do diddly dam squat agianst them. Heck the basic lasgun would turn a Modern MBT into a slag heap after a few shots (or 1 at full power). And has anyone ever thought that maybe the leman russ doesn't actually have riveted armor and the Adeptus mechanicus have no idea what they are and just weld them on because they are shown in the stc.

That would be armor dependent . Really if you do not want to get hit making it tall, wide with nice barn sized flat sides is not the way to go.

Ninjacommando wrote:
Hmm maybe they use the leman russ because most people in the far future of the 41st millennium use energy weapons so a "modern" tank designed to stop Kinetic Energy weapons wouldnt do diddly dam squat agianst them. Heck the basic lasgun would turn a Modern MBT into a slag heap after a few shots (or 1 at full power). And has anyone ever thought that maybe the leman russ doesn't actually have riveted armor and the Adeptus mechanicus have no idea what they are and just weld them on because they are shown in the stc.

People in the far future use normal kinetic weapons as well. And no, lasguns aren't remotely that powerful. From what we can see in the fluff, most basic 40k weapons aren't much different from equivalent modern day weapons.

 KingDeath wrote:

Ninjacommando wrote:
Hmm maybe they use the leman russ because most people in the far future of the 41st millennium use energy weapons so a "modern" tank designed to stop Kinetic Energy weapons wouldnt do diddly dam squat agianst them. Heck the basic lasgun would turn a Modern MBT into a slag heap after a few shots (or 1 at full power). And has anyone ever thought that maybe the leman russ doesn't actually have riveted armor and the Adeptus mechanicus have no idea what they are and just weld them on because they are shown in the stc.

People in the far future use normal kinetic weapons as well. And no, lasguns aren't remotely that powerful. From what we can see in the fluff, most basic 40k weapons aren't much different from equivalent modern day weapons.

I was under the impression that modern day anti-tank are roughly equivilent to auto-cannons, but things like Lascannons and especially Meltaguns are far in advance of "modern" weapons. But yes there's no way a lasgun could even blow up a car let alone an A1 Abrams.

It is worth considering that modern armour designs are entirely focused, at least in the west, on stopping kinetic weapons; look at how vulnerable the Abrams is to HEAT rounds to see that; can stop SABOT without any trouble, 50 year old RPG-7V can reliably disable it.

A lot can be explained away by armour advances in regards to the Russ, but the rivets and profile can not.

Doesn't matter what you make it out of, a big profile is never an advantage to a tank, and riveted armour will be unnecessarily vulnerable to kinetic force. It won't matter much with a directed energy weapon, and a lot of other imperial tanks appear to have "layered" armour, such as the baneblade, where the rivets appear only on supplementary armoured plates on top of the superstructure, representing what is likely an ablative layer of armour for protection against DEWs, with an armoured superstructure underneath with more focus on kinetic protection.

But then the Baneblade isn't actually a horribly designed tank, excessive and not well suited to the real world's armoured warfare, but fits 40k well. Take off the secondary weapons and scale it down, and it isn't much different than a T-90 in terms of layout. The Russ just doesn't make much sense; it's a big riveted box. If you ignore FW (which is a good idea), you can explain away the armour as being better, as in BL books it is often referred to as plasteel, ceramite or other forms of 40k armour, not "steel", but the layout and preference for rivets is still stupid.

If anything, I view the Russ as a relic from when 40k was completely seperated from reality; the Imperial Guard in particular has become more grounded in actual fact, and dare I say, science, than RT era stuff; the designs of vehicles are logic and functional, the weapons are largely within the realm of reason and plausibility, but the Russ is a leftover from a sillier age, but has become too iconic to change. People are still angry about the squat removal, a secondary faction with ridiculous models, horrible backstory and no real game or universe niche, and only existed for a very short periood of time, imagine if GW tried to redesign the Russ into something more realistic? Some people would be happy, just like how some people were happy the Squats and other more fantasy-esque elements were removed as 40k matured, but it would alienate a lot of old Guard players, and 40k players in general, as the Russ, as it stands, is a key part of the "identity" of 40k, aside from the baneblade, it's probably the single most recognized Imperial Guard unit in the game.

Guardsmen, Chimeras, Basilisks and Commissars you can tweak, alter, and occassionally radically redesign, but the Russ, that'd be hard.

The Mars Pattern at least does away with that awful looking pillbox for the Lascannon/Bolter and extends the main body some to make some sloped frontal armor. The treads and sides are still the problem.

 KingDeath wrote:

Ninjacommando wrote:
Hmm maybe they use the leman russ because most people in the far future of the 41st millennium use energy weapons so a "modern" tank designed to stop Kinetic Energy weapons wouldnt do diddly dam squat agianst them. Heck the basic lasgun would turn a Modern MBT into a slag heap after a few shots (or 1 at full power). And has anyone ever thought that maybe the leman russ doesn't actually have riveted armor and the Adeptus mechanicus have no idea what they are and just weld them on because they are shown in the stc.

People in the far future use normal kinetic weapons as well. And no, lasguns aren't remotely that powerful. From what we can see in the fluff, most basic 40k weapons aren't much different from equivalent modern day weapons.

Calculations from the books. Here are the ones taken from factpile

Eisenhorn Omnibus, page 483:
“I fired my laspistol, powering shot after shot at him, driving him backwards. His gold-chest battle suit, which gave his shrivelled frame the bulk and frame and proportions of a Space Marine, absorbed or deflected the impacts, but the sheer force knocked him back several paces.”

A) The man in the suit is a withered old Witch Hunter, who whilst receiving the benefit of the suits augmented strength, is relatively perhaps not the best candidate to wear Astartes gear in comparison to half a ton of naked Space Marine. Kind of obvious, but you need it spelled out for you.

B) Assuming that the old man weighs somewhere in the average 100kg range – for someone capable of wearing a two and a half meter tall suit without collapsing under their own weight – then coupled with the added tonnage of the suit itself, the Las-Pistol is capable of physically forcing (as the quote implies) 1.1 tons of mass at a distance of three meters; assuming of course that we’re talking about Space Marine sized paces.

Which means that a mass-less, photon based beam form the standard Imperial sidearm is capable of exerting 3300 newtons of force; in comparison a .50 caliber sniper rifle round generates only 20.59 newtons, it takes 700 newtons to lift a man off his feet and throw him, and the Gauss Cannon (the heaviest infantry operated anti-vehicle projectile weapon in the UNSC) is only responsible for less than a thousand newtons.

C) Last, and most importantly, he survived. Said beams, regardless of their imparted force and energy, were being deflected harmlessly off his suit; which when you think about the Las-Pistols ability to flash boil meter long Fish submerged in cold sea water, is incredibly impressive.

———-

“Uriel turned to the sheltering Ultramarines and shouted, ‘Follow me!’ – A lasbolt struck him square in the chest. Uriel staggered, but did not fall, the eagle at the centre of his breastplate running molten. Chaplain Clausel rose to his feet.’

This is the only mention of Lasgun melting I could find, which is bizarre because the actual impact only melts the Eagle emblem itself, and nothing else (the rest of the time it only scores, or blackens the paint).

First of all, laser weapons (as I’ve demonstrated) generate a lot of elastic force upon impact, thousands of newtons in fact from a Las-Pistol alone, so this shouldn’t come as a surprise that it causes him to stagger.

Secondly, we have no idea what the Emblem itself is made of, therefore we can almost any material density from silicon to industrial steel and still not ascertain an accurate answer. However, let’s assume that the Emblem is made of Iron and has a rectangular dimension of 30 cm x100 cm x1 cm for a total volume of 3000 cm^3; then at a density of 7.874 gram per cubic centimeter, the Emblem would have a mass of approximately 23.622 kg. The energy required to melt iron (heat it from 150K to melting point and then add latent heat of fusion) is roughly 1.28 MJ/kg, therefore the energy required to melt the entire emblem would be equal to 30.236 megajoules. Of course this is merely a low end that doesn’t take into account ablation, chemical impurities and other factors that would decrease the overall value.

Now that is a spicy meatball. In comparison, here are the listed energy ratings of the following weapons and rounds per use:

M1911A1 .45 ACP: 0.47 kilojoules
AK-47 (7.62x39mm): 2.01 kilojoules
BR55HB SR Battle Rifle (Halo): 4.05 kilojoules
Barrett M82 (.50 BMG): 20.1 kilojoules
Agrpinaa pattern militia autogun (40K): 33.6 kilojoules
M67 grenade: 600 kilojoules

Of course, one should note that the damage mechanism between laser, kinetic and explosive weaponry is not uniform. Therefore a high megajoule laser, whilst capable of cremating a human alive, will not necessarily penetrate tank armor (although it would turn large portions to slag) due to the noted inefficiencies in both kinetic impacts and thermal heating. Laser weapons such as the Lasgun usually generate brief high-energy pulses in large quantities, so a single megajoule delivered as a laser pulse is roughly the same energy as 200g of high explosive, and has the same basic effect on a target.

all from L-W from factpile

Cant find the one about the lasgun at full power/hot shot but it is even worse.

 Hunterindarkness wrote:
from what i can tell, many who play IG do not use the standard models

That surprises me, personally, as in the nigh-on 18 years I've played 40k I've not seen anyone use any model other than the Leman Russ tank to represent it, especially in local gaming groups I've been members of. Maybe it's a preference thing between EU & America?

 Hunterindarkness wrote:
its down right archaic that does not match the rest of the Ig look in the lest.

I'd argue differently, personally. A lot of the imagery of the Imperium is in bleak, straight gothic & baroque lines and a lot of things in the Imperium reflects that - take Imperial Navy ships as an example, not the graceful lines of Eldar craft for them but harsh, angular lines and square shapes. The Leman Russ follows that imagery by having sharp, angular lines, being square/box shaped. It's one of those things, in the same way the Thunderbolt is full of harsh angles and sharp lines, as is the Marauder, the Chimera chassis, the Vulture, the Valkyrie with its box shaped hull, the sharp lines of Cadian flak & carapace armour, of the Kasrkin hellgun energy/back packs, the Sentinel's body, the Aquila lander, the Arvis lighter - IG & IN are full of the sharp angular lines which make up the imagery of the Imperium, just the Leman Russ is one of the biggest, obvious examples of it.

 Arcsquad12 wrote:
The Mars Pattern at least does away with that awful looking pillbox for the Lascannon/Bolter and extends the main body some to make some sloped frontal armor. The treads and sides are still the problem.

That is something I really don't like on the standard plastic version. Have to say the FW Ryza pattern Leman Russ with vanquisher turret and that co-axial heavy stubber is gorgeous. Absolutely love it.

Interestingly enough. Leman Russ and Land Raider provided inspirations to many Scifi games. especially since THQ released GW-Licensed 40koW, the all-enclosed bogie tracks AFB designs became more common than before.

 Hunterindarkness wrote:
They can on the top end, but it is unlikely that is the norm. A Russ regiment could have few as 35 or as many as 250. Very few I guess ever stay at Full numbers for their regiment with combat losses and such.

As for the Size of a regiment l it is as follows.( from page 9 for the 5th ed IG codex)

1 regiment is 3 to 20 companies.
1 Company is 3 to 6 platoons

Heavy units such as the russ count as a a squadron (platoon) 3 being the max size of a Squad. So 9 to a "company" And we know 20 Companies are the upper limit in a single regiment. So a large tank Regiment would be roughly 180 Leman Russ tanks or about 1200 crew.

We also know from the same book it is rare for a full Tank regiment to be deployed as a single unit, much less multiple tank Regiments.

So the IG organizational hierachy is much simpler than either US Army or British ones? that means. lingo likes "Division, Subdivision, Brigade, Corps" as anything larger than 'regiment' doesn't exists by 41st millenium?

 Lone Cat wrote:


So the IG organizational hierachy is much simpler than either US Army or British ones? that means. lingo likes "Division, Subdivision, Brigade, Corps" as anything larger than 'regiment' doesn't exists by 41st millenium?

Not in the Guard no. The Regiment is a self contained unit for the most part, once it leaves home it never goes back. They only have the three, but it is not as Organized as modern units in many ways. They are what ever the world who created them can afford to send.

Other formations do exist but GW doesn't bother to mention them that often.

In Imperial Armour III the Guard portion of the Taros Invasion Force was the 4621st Imperial Guard Army, which was comprised of two Corps of five Regiments each. The 17th Tallarn Desert Raider Regiment was given a detailed breakdown and consisted of 4 Brigades of 8-9 Companies each.

In Imperial Armour V the Guard portion of the Vraks invasion force was the 88th Imperial Guard (Kreig) Siege Army, which consisted of 8 Korps (each of 3-5 Regiments)

How old are those however? As far as I know the 5e IG codex is the word on IG information. I really do not trust many other books as like everything else 40k it contradicts the hell out of itself.

Older than the 5e Codex certainly, but since page 7 of said Codex mentions twice that "army groups" are comprised of multiple regiments but fails to go into any explicit detail I see nothing wrong with using the Imperial Armour book to fill in the blanks.

Page 24 of the Codex mentions "Chenkov's armoured brigades"

Yes, they are names. The codex however makes it clear no matter what the name or how they were structured elsewhere, when they become IG they conform to the IG structure. So yes you can call them whatever, but the name "brigade" is just that , a name and not a structure of command.

When you have a conflict, go with the prime source of info. In this case that is the current Codex. Making anything that contradicts it the "false" information.

The prime source would be Imperial armour volume 1 then, because it has recently been writen for 6th edition which would make the 5ed codex the false information

So the 5e IG codex is no longer the official codex of IG? or is the Imperial Armour volume 1 a supplemental book?

Edit: what I am finding Imperial Armour volume 1 is from 2003...so its older.

Imperial Armour Volume 1 Second Edition: IMPERIAL GUARD came out last month so its "fluff" would be the most current about the imperial Guard.

Only if it was the official IG codex. Unless it replaces the 5th edition IG codex it is simply more contractions that are all to common with 40k. And in that case you go with the official Codex of the army.

 Hunterindarkness wrote:
Only if it was the official IG codex. Unless it replaces the 5th edition IG codex it is simply more contractions that are all to common with 40k. And in that case you go with the official Codex of the army.

You'll find they're often not contradictions, though. More often the codex is simply silent on an issue, or only addresses it very briefly, while another source fills in more detail.

While that is true in some cases, not all. I find far to many contradiction in 40k for my taste, but eh ya pick one as correct and ignore the rest. In the case above however FW are not the prime rule book but supplemental rule books( If I recall it even states for you to make sure the other guys is ok with you using FW rules and such). So yeah, in a conflict they are over ruled. Some folks might like the FW stuff better however and ignore the prime source.