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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/23 18:49:21
Subject: Juvenat and the Inquisition - Can Juvenat be given on the sly
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Slippery Scout Biker
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Howdy again Dakka! I'm back with another (hopefully not dumb) question for you all!
So I am running a DW campaign, and I'm trying to come up with some side characters/ NPCS for them to interact with once this goes into a larger and broader campaign (Once we all get more familiar with the rules). One of the characters my fiancee wrote up to help was an amazing Inquisitor. The Inquisitor she came up with is a bit of Granny Weatherwax (from Discworld) and a bit of Master of Disguise. Her thoughts on this somewhat cantankerous inquisitor, is that she would not undergo juvenat treatments due to mistrust or unconventional beliefs (I'll live my Emperor alotted years and no more).
Now, due to the nature of the Inquisition and the conclave of equals, unless you're a lord. Would this Inquisitor, provided she's doing quite well/bringing the light to the dark places/purging the xenos etc.., would she be getting undue pressure, say from the Inquisitor that mentored her, or other Lords to undergo juvenat? She has undergone some minor mechanical augmetics to keep up, despite her advancing age (the polysanguine and autosanguine talents, I figured some self repairing nanites might keep a 75 year old Inquisitor pretty spry). Due to the normal backstabbing and tab keeping from one Inquisitor to the next, would there be an issue where her mentor orders her acolytes to 'slip her just enough juvenat' so she wouldn't be suspicious? Would this go against Inquisitorial authority, since she's not being policed by the agency for taint or heresy.
I guess the way I'm viewing the Inquisition is very much like this scene from Game of Thrones:
So, is this sort of inter-office manipulation something we could/would expect to see from the Inquisition?
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Get out of those metal bawkses for the Emprah!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/23 19:12:26
Subject: Juvenat and the Inquisition - Can Juvenat be given on the sly
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Renegade Inquisitor de Marche
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It's a treatment so unless the Inquisitor is unusually dense I doubt it'd be possible...
That said if she was already having medical treatments it might be possible since she wouldn't have much knowledge of what was being done to her.
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Dakka Bingo! By Ouze
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"almost as good as winning free cake at the tea drinking contest for an Englishman." -Reds8n
Seal up your lips and give no words but mum.
Equip, Reload. Do violence.
Watch for Gerry. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/23 20:02:04
Subject: Juvenat and the Inquisition - Can Juvenat be given on the sly
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Hallowed Canoness
Ireland
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One thing about 40k as a setting is that there are very few things that seem to be "set in stone". Juvenat treatments are amongst them - I think not even GW ever truly defined what they are (beyond "it's a bunch of drugs"), and I assume every second novel writer or RPG designer has his or her very own opinion on how it "should" work like.
My own thoughts on the subject are that, yes, it basically is just a bunch of drugs, but the amount and frequency with how they are administered determine their efficiency. It's why I think that those canisters that you sometimes see strapped to influential people pumping stuff into their bodies might be some sort of "portable rejuvenation injector" - perhaps because the drug loses its potency the longer you take it, or perhaps because said influential people are unwittingly "overdoing" it in the paranoid pursuit of eternal life.
This also means that you could very well have small doses of these drugs have a small effect in terms of revitalising the imbiber's body, if you as the GM want it so.
As for the power-play involved - that's the beauty about the Inquisition. There are no actual rules. It would be up to the individual Acolyte to decide whether to disclose this plot to their Inquisitor, or go along with it, be it because they wish to "score points" with the elder, more influential Inquisitor, or because they wish their master a better chance for survival, even if said master doesn't know what's best for them herself. The Acolyte is literally between "a rock and a hard place", as certainly nobody would come to his rescue if his Inquisitor uncovers the truth and simply decides to off him for betrayal.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/23 20:21:24
Subject: Juvenat and the Inquisition - Can Juvenat be given on the sly
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Journeyman Inquisitor with Visions of the Warp
York/London(for weekends) oh for the glory of the british rail industry
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From the fluff about inquisitors, most take decades to actually be fully trained, so longevity treatments are needed to extend their usefulness. The deamonhunter codex said it takes a century of service before an inquisitor can start training new inquisitors
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Relictors: 1500pts
its safe to say that relictors are the greatest army a man , nay human can own.
I'm cancelling you out of shame like my subscription to White Dwarf. - Mark Corrigan: Peep Show
Avatar 720 wrote:Eau de Ulthwé - The new fragrance; by Eldrad.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/24 09:02:29
Subject: Juvenat and the Inquisition - Can Juvenat be given on the sly
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Potent Possessed Daemonvessel
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Thing is, she would be unlikely to reach any level of significant influence in the Inqusition given the relatively short life-span of a regular human. Just the basic training would probably put her well into middle-aged.
Perhaps she can receive the life-extending treatments, but forgo the purely cosmetic procedures?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/24 14:37:05
Subject: Juvenat and the Inquisition - Can Juvenat be given on the sly
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Hallowed Canoness
Ireland
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Omegus wrote:Perhaps she can receive the life-extending treatments, but forgo the purely cosmetic procedures?
I'm not sure there would be a difference between the two - unless we're talking mechanical augmentations, Tech-Priest-style?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/24 15:39:35
Subject: Juvenat and the Inquisition - Can Juvenat be given on the sly
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Potent Possessed Daemonvessel
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Why not? Like stated earlier in this thread, these treatments aren't clearly defined, so longevity treatments without cosmetic touch-ups are certainly within the realm of possibility.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/24 16:27:08
Subject: Juvenat and the Inquisition - Can Juvenat be given on the sly
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Hallowed Canoness
Ireland
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Hmm. Possible, sure. I was just thinking of how much sense it would make. Stopping the body from aging should logically also stop wrinkles 'n stuff, as it is "somewhat" connected.
That said, I'm sure one can come up with some sort of explanation of why it isn't so - I guess it's just that I'd not expect this and it might cause some eyebrows to go up in confusion.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/24 17:41:20
Subject: Juvenat and the Inquisition - Can Juvenat be given on the sly
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Potent Possessed Daemonvessel
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Medically, that's not at all the case. Getting a heart or liver transplant when yours starts failing doesn't suddenly give you a face lift or boob job. Skin is its own organ, and ages at its own rate.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/12/24 17:42:30
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/24 18:08:54
Subject: Juvenat and the Inquisition - Can Juvenat be given on the sly
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Hallowed Canoness
Ireland
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Medically, getting a heart or liver transplant also does not stop the body from aging anyways. We were discussing rejuvenation treatments.
I can see where you're coming from when you are now suggesting some sort of "internal makeover" that sees more and more body parts of the character surrogated by organic or mechanical replacements, but I'd assume that the majority of readers would think this is different from rejuvenation, so perhaps just explain what you mean in a little more detail next time to avoid confusion.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/24 18:24:30
Subject: Juvenat and the Inquisition - Can Juvenat be given on the sly
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Potent Possessed Daemonvessel
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Whatever verbiage you want to use is fine, I am just suggesting a work-around for the Inquisitor character that can still suffer some of the features of the aging process without succumbing to that whole unfortunate death side effect.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/24 18:49:22
Subject: Re:Juvenat and the Inquisition - Can Juvenat be given on the sly
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The Conquerer
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
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It would be possable to give the drugs without the person's knowledge. however it wouldn't work forever.
Once the person reached 100ish years old it would be obvious something was going on.
Juvenat treatments prolong your life and reverse aging, both of which will happen at a normal rate to a human.
Even with the person in question having excellent medical care available they wouldn't live much past 150 and they would still show normal signs of aging.
So such a trick might work for 20 years or so but once the person was 80-90 the deception would fall apart.
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Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/24 18:50:04
Subject: Juvenat and the Inquisition - Can Juvenat be given on the sly
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Mighty Vampire Count
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Mayvbe an Inquisitor harvests organs from members of her retinue that fail her............
Her health being far more important to the Imperium than a failed servant of Him.................
or not
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I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/528517.page
A Bloody Road - my Warhammer Fantasy Fiction |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/24 20:04:29
Subject: Juvenat and the Inquisition - Can Juvenat be given on the sly
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Veteran Inquisitorial Tyranid Xenokiller
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They do show an inquisitor in the DH corebook that is about 300 years old, and his picture shows a man of perhaps (a healthy) 60-70 years.
I always saw it as a do-it-all treatment: You get a Juvenat treatment, you get younger, not just your inner organs, but your mind is sharper, you look younger, and you got more energy, despite being technically over 100, you can easely pass for 30-40 years old, perhaps younger if you hae a top of the line contact in the Ad Mec and you got a best quality treatment.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/25 14:54:24
Subject: Juvenat and the Inquisition - Can Juvenat be given on the sly
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Journeyman Inquisitor with Visions of the Warp
York/London(for weekends) oh for the glory of the british rail industry
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Omegus wrote:Whatever verbiage you want to use is fine, I am just suggesting a work-around for the Inquisitor character that can still suffer some of the features of the aging process without succumbing to that whole unfortunate death side effect.
Or have it so that the aging is actually a cosmetic effect. She creates the image of weakness to give her the upperhand in her endevours.
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Relictors: 1500pts
its safe to say that relictors are the greatest army a man , nay human can own.
I'm cancelling you out of shame like my subscription to White Dwarf. - Mark Corrigan: Peep Show
Avatar 720 wrote:Eau de Ulthwé - The new fragrance; by Eldrad.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/26 11:49:18
Subject: Juvenat and the Inquisition - Can Juvenat be given on the sly
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Fixture of Dakka
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I think there's different degrees of juvenat. There's the normal one, but then there's the one that comes up when people start getting closer to marine age, where in some of the earlier pieces of fluff it pretty much wiped someones personality and they had to go through an extensive course of being 'reminded' who they were.
Sometimes it didn't go according to plan.....
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/26 16:18:04
Subject: Juvenat and the Inquisition - Can Juvenat be given on the sly
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Confessor Of Sins
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Compel wrote:I think there's different degrees of juvenat. There's the normal one, but then there's the one that comes up when people start getting closer to marine age.
Marine age? Very few marines will get anywhere near the age that Inquisitors and other Imperial peers can reach. Very few marines will even reach the age where an un-juvenat treated human (with decent health care) would die a natural death. The oldest active Ultramarine is Chaplain Cassius at under 400, and he calls his Chapter Master "Young Calgar". Anyone older among them is sleeping as a Dreadnought, only brought awake for great need. In contrast "normal" humans with access to all the finest treatments can easily reach 700 and over.
The Blood Angels and Space Wolves can live longer, maybe because of some alteration in their unstable geneseed. And even among them the centuries-old marines are rare occurences as battle attrtion takes a steady toll. Someone like Commander Dante (commanding the Blood Angels for over a thousand years) is a once-in-a-millenium freak whose recruitment and rise is a legend lost in time even among his own.
As for the OP, I'd think most Inquisitor creeds would flat-out require their members to undergo the juvenat treatments to better serve the Emperor. An inquisitor who doesn't show up might not have the time to get in trouble for it though - the wheels of bureaucrazy are slow and you can die in a thousand horrible ways as an inquisitor.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/26 17:59:01
Subject: Re:Juvenat and the Inquisition - Can Juvenat be given on the sly
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Hallowed Canoness
Ireland
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I think with many Marines it's more or less an issue of dying in combat rather than reaching their maximum lifespan. However, ever since GW posted that line about standard Marine maximum lifespan being three times that of a normal human being, I've come to theorise that perhaps it's the very same juvenation treatment that powerful Imperial officials receive - just as a default part of their lives rather than something optional, either already built into their bodies thanks to the genetic makeover, or as part of their lifelong dependency on regular metabolism-stabilising drug treatments. And thus perhaps to a lesser efficiency than those few humans who keep their bodies hooked up to drug dispensers 24/7.
I mean, wouldn't it make sense that it's the same tech, at least in principle?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/12/26 18:00:22
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/26 18:02:25
Subject: Re:Juvenat and the Inquisition - Can Juvenat be given on the sly
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The Conquerer
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
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Could be.
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Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/26 20:42:58
Subject: Juvenat and the Inquisition - Can Juvenat be given on the sly
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Ghost of Greed and Contempt
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I think I read somewhere that some Juvenat treatments only stop the ageing process - rather than reversing it. So possibly if she let herself get all old and crinkly, then took the drugs, she'd still look old, but would live much longer...
But so far as someone doing it to a person on the sly? I'd say that would be very difficult - I always thought Juvenat treatmets were actual surgery, rather than drugs - and I think you'd notice if you suddenly stopped ageing.
Just my personal thoughts on the idea, but I'm sure it's something you could work in somehow.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/26 21:50:30
Subject: Re:Juvenat and the Inquisition - Can Juvenat be given on the sly
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Slippery Scout Biker
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Wow! I leave the thread for a few days and it lights up! Thank you all for the input and insight into the subject.
The main reason I had the confusion on the subject of juvenat is I have heard of two different types of it. One being the chemical augmentation and the other being a flash cloning of various organs and implantation. I was thinking even if it is a two part treatment, if the Inquisitor Lord wanted to be sly about it he would have just left it to the chemicals (at least for now). Now, Inquisitor Esmera has already had some mechanical augmentations, so if juvenat is somewhat invasive an acolyte can at least explain it as being a side effect of the maintenance of the mechanical components. I had considered having the Kill Team's apothecary finding hints as to the acolyte's double loyalty, and seeing what would happen from there.
The Inquisitor for this campaign is already rather up there in her years (around 76). As for the extent of the juvenat she's been undergoing, if it's merely an effect of halting the aging process that would be perfect, or even if it was a slow reversal of the aging process. I wouldn't want the Inquisitor to be getting suspicious, or at least incredibly suspicious. The thoughts you all have been portraying, for the majority, have at least fell within this scope which is reassuring. I wouldn't think the process had gone on long enough for there to be no doubt as to juvenat at least as of yet.
And don't know how to quote when editing:
But Bluntman DC, essentially this is an Inquisitorial type that's using her looks cantankerousness to put people off their guard or to become instantly ignored as she plays the situation. She is a member of the Ordo Xenos, probably keen on going undercover to unveil xenos smuggling/trading rings as well as beginning to uncover bits about the Violet Hand (the pro-Tau Imperial group). She uses a variety of disguises to move through the subsector, actually rarely using throne agents or acolytes in her direct agents
Thanks again!
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/12/26 21:59:02
Get out of those metal bawkses for the Emprah!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/27 05:45:04
Subject: Juvenat and the Inquisition - Can Juvenat be given on the sly
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Confessor Of Sins
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Dark Apostle 666 wrote:I think I read somewhere that some Juvenat treatments only stop the ageing process - rather than reversing it. So possibly if she let herself get all old and crinkly, then took the drugs, she'd still look old, but would live much longer... But so far as someone doing it to a person on the sly? I'd say that would be very difficult - I always thought Juvenat treatmets were actual surgery, rather than drugs - and I think you'd notice if you suddenly stopped ageing.
I'm sure part of the treatments would also reverse signs of aging - for example, our hair goes white because as we grow older we can't break down hydrogen peroxide as efficiently (it's a byproduct of us breathing oxygen).
As for surgery or not, some treatments probably do require it. If you're older when you get access or have been severely wounded since the last treatment it might be necessary to surgically remove, replace or alter tissue to ensure everything works. Still, I'd imagine one who gets on the juvenat train young would do fine with "only" genetherapy and drugs. Removing hereditary disease markers, immunity to cancer, fixing up parts of the body known to fail naturally with time... All of it would most certainly require visits to improbably hightech medical facilities so treatments can be performed in the safest manner. AdMech Magis Biologis are probably directly involved at least in mapping out your treatment needs.
So no, I don't think you'd administer it on the sly. Service on some standard bionics should be easy for a servitor to carry out but scanning your entire body and genome for defects to cure and then measuring out the cure efficiently can't be left to a tissue sample and a syringe.
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