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I've currently re-read the LOTD (best book in the series btw) and I'm curious about the controversy surrounding the Legion of the Damned. Are they one of the missing chapter, or one of the God-Emperor's Aspects. Just wondering what your views on this is?

They used to be the Fire Hawks.
They got lost in the Warp.
They have gained odd powers but they still fight for the Emperor.

I don't think so
In the book, the size of their fortress-monastery is huge-bigger than any Imperial ship.
I think its all of the SM who died honorably in battle, and vowed to serve the emperor after death-

The Fire Hawks are the largest single group to become Legion of the Damned. However they were not the first, and will certainly not be the last.

That said, if you were to run into a random LotD, odds are it was a Fire Hawk.

I think it is both. The Legionaires are the space marines who died in battle... And it is the God-Emperor who gave them new life. The marines belief in their cause leads to the Emperor to reanimate them so to speak so they can continue to serve when needed, knowingly or not on the part of the assisted.

I would think that all Legion of the Damned are ex-Fire Hawks. After all, the Raptorous Rex, the Fire Hawks' fortress-monastery, was only lost in 963.M41. That's after the second Battle For Armageddon and the Badab War (obviously, because the Fire Hawks were participants in that),

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
I would think that all Legion of the Damned are ex-Fire Hawks. After all, the Raptorous Rex, the Fire Hawks' fortress-monastery, was only lost in 963.M41. That's after the second Battle For Armageddon and the Badab War (obviously, because the Fire Hawks were participants in that),

I have a feeling you meant to say, "I wouldn't think"

In which case, I agree with you.

jareddm wrote:

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
I would think that all Legion of the Damned are ex-Fire Hawks. After all, the Raptorous Rex, the Fire Hawks' fortress-monastery, was only lost in 963.M41. That's after the second Battle For Armageddon and the Badab War (obviously, because the Fire Hawks were participants in that),

I have a feeling you meant to say, "I wouldn't think"

In which case, I agree with you.

Why would he think that? Their fortress monastery was lost only 36 years before present. You think that somehow it was lost, turned to LotD, unlost, and then gained members from other chapters all in that short time span?

 ph34r wrote:

jareddm wrote:

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
I would think that all Legion of the Damned are ex-Fire Hawks. After all, the Raptorous Rex, the Fire Hawks' fortress-monastery, was only lost in 963.M41. That's after the second Battle For Armageddon and the Badab War (obviously, because the Fire Hawks were participants in that),

I have a feeling you meant to say, "I wouldn't think"

In which case, I agree with you.

Why would he think that? Their fortress monastery was lost only 36 years before present. You think that somehow it was lost, turned to LotD, unlost, and then gained members from other chapters all in that short time span?

It depends on the nature of the Legion, if they are the supernatural plague infected yet still mortal marines of their original incarnation then the answer would likely be a fairly definite no. If the Legion is indeed the ghosts of dead marines as some sources claim then the notion of them having gained marines from other chapters within 36 years is very feasible indeed - the legion intervenes in the most dire situations, often that means aiding decimated marines contingents from which they may be able to recruit the dead & dying.

AndrewGPaul's post is ambiguous - he mentions the facts but neglects to mention the point of them, if I were to raise the issue of the Legion of the Damned operating before the Fire Hawks demise I would structure the first part of the post similarly (I *think* there is a 2nd or 3rd edition mention of them in 890.M41) but with "weren't".

Note the Rapturous Rex's loss is only relevant if there is a canon mention of it having survived, the original fluff for them had the Legion of the Damned as being only the Fire Hawks who were aboard the cruiser Absolute, the rest of the Fire Hawks fleet was obliterated.

In the book it says the casket that fell onto the world had honor marking from all the back to the heresy.

jareddm wrote:

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
I would think that all Legion of the Damned are ex-Fire Hawks. After all, the Raptorous Rex, the Fire Hawks' fortress-monastery, was only lost in 963.M41. That's after the second Battle For Armageddon and the Badab War (obviously, because the Fire Hawks were participants in that),

I have a feeling you meant to say, "I wouldn't think"

In which case, I agree with you.

Looks like we're disagreeing, then. As I say, the Legion of the Damned are only 36 years old, in-universe. Not very long, so no need for the original members of the Legion to have been replaced. If you want that to be the case, then on the other hand, there's nothing stating that they haven't gathered new "recruits", but I just don't see any interesting narrative reason for it.

SerQuintus wrote:
If the Legion is indeed the ghosts of dead marines as some sources claim then the notion of them having gained marines from other chapters within 36 years is very feasible indeed

Which sources are these?

as for

Note the Rapturous Rex's loss is only relevant if there is a canon mention of it having survived, the original fluff for them had the Legion of the Damned as being only the Fire Hawks who were aboard the cruiser Absolute, the rest of the Fire Hawks fleet was obliterated.

, The Raptorous Rex was the only ship in their fleet I could remember the name of; the background has been fairly consistent in stating that the entire Chapter fleet (including the Absolute jumped in one group and was never seen again. the final recorded sighting of the Raptorous Rex would be the earliest date for the formation of the Legion of the Damned. Apologies for any lack of clarity.

Mind you, the makeup of the Legion has been subject to changes over the years. Originally they were a single unit of Marines, with no ranks. Then there was the odd vehicle here and there, then Veteran Sergeant Centurius, implied to be the only NCO or officer remaining, then a full army list for a couple of editions - with officers, specialists, dreadnoughts and vehicles - and now back to a Tactical squad equivalent.

Because it makes little sense to me that the concept, Emperor reanimating them based on their will and faith, should have been only occurring for 36 years. It feels like something that could've been happening for millennia. Hell, I'd have figured it would've predated the formation of the Sisters of Battle. It gives the LotD a real history beyond just being, "Fire Hawks, but undead."

In fairness, the warp does funny things with time.
They may be popping out all over the place...

I still have at home somewhere the original white dwarf were the legion of the dammed were first introduced into 40k.

They were the Fire Harks chapter of space marines and they made the jump as a whole chapter into the warp at which point they were trapped and never seen of any more in there original colours. The Great Bell on Terra tolled for there loss but as far as the imperium were concerned they lost.

While trapped in the warp ship after ship were destroyed and the crew infected by the powers of the warp until in the end they were spat out.
Seeing the state there bodies were in,having no formal lines of command and having no hope of returning as a functioning part of the imperium they decided to sell there lives dearly.

They were never ghost's or manifestations of dead space marines it just looked that way when they turned up as described by Ultrsmurf Tigerus in a short story where they turned up to save there asses from getting over run by Ork s.
They attacked without warning with no battle cry s or shouts of anger, they attacked and killed the vast majority of Ork's and then vanished (teleporta) from the field of battle.

This is pretty much everything it said in the original tex all the other stuff has been added on since then. As for there age i am sure i read somewhere they were part of the cursed founding but cant be too sure TBH.

As for the book Legion of the damned by Rob sanders, while still a good read i must say i was quite disappointed by how little it when into the LOTD. It might as well of been named after the Excoriator's as that's all it was about apart from a few bits here and there. IMO he took the idea of the LOTD, there little history and story and changed it all, Not once has it said in any rules or Fluff that they had physic powers or anything like that.

But hay that's two pence worth lol.

On Rob Sander's blog, he said that the title was never supposed to exclusively be about the legion of the damned, but also how the Excoriators see themselves as a damned legion of space marines.

After you said that jareddm it makes a lot of sense after reading the book.

Excuse me, but what about the hundreds of other Astartes who became trapped in the warp?

cranney268 wrote:
As for the book Legion of the damned by Rob sanders, while still a good read i must say i was quite disappointed by how little it when into the LOTD. It might as well of been named after the Excoriator's as that's all it was about apart from a few bits here and there. IMO he took the idea of the LOTD, there little history and story and changed it all, Not once has it said in any rules or Fluff that they had physic powers or anything like that.

It was a good read, but I was kind of disapointed by how little of the LOTD there was... granted you can't really do a novel on ghosts whose appearances are always short... could've done some short stories and just named the novel Excoriators instead

Excuse me, but what about the hundreds of other Astartes who became trapped in the warp?

I had assumed a horrible horrible death.

 Phosis T'Kar Jr wrote:
Excuse me, but what about the hundreds of other Astartes who became trapped in the warp?

Well, when you go into the warp, you tend to die. Pretty badly.

This is (most) of the original fluff. I am at my folks' for Christmas, so I can't scan the original pages, and had to find this on Google.

Thats the one i have at home somewhere.

The legion of the damned was formed from the fire hawk chapter when it was lost to the warp, Or another speculation is that their ship was sabotaged by the assassins of the imprium, since the fire hawks chapter was formed during the cursed founding they suffered from faults. The fire hawks suffered from over zealous pride, out of all the chapters they thought theirs to be superior over all, this is thought to be the leading cause to why they where taken out. they might have believed they where better then the emperor himself.

The chapter made a warp jump but never made it to their destination and was declared lost to the warp after 10 years(time frame might be off?) After wards shadowy warriors started to appear randomly across the galaxy helping the imperium fight losing battles and turn the tide of war.

Most of the legion is made of up the fire hawk chapter and they fight as a single force in utter silence. Since they have eminence warp exposurer one theory is they communicate telepathically. Also since they have been mutated by the warp they are extremely aggressive, kinda like khrone berserks, but it might have been their pride that saved them since they still fight in the name of the emperor. Also the only for see able leader sgt centurius has the power to bring dead space marines back to life. So since the loss of the fire hawk chapter it is speculated that they can and are recruiting from the dead. Making an army of fallen space marines to fight for the emperor even after death.

They are not directly the emperors legion but more a manifestation of his vengeance and anger made physical.

It's more or less a straightforward story. The Fire Hawks became loss in the Warp and when they got spit back out, they were the Legion of the Damned, mutated and warped by the Immaterium.

The Warp does crazy gak and can be justified to doing just about anything in the setting.