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Salutations Dakka,

Tactic question for the big gunz of the orkz. I was thinking of them as a substitute for my regularr boomwagons, but it the tradeoff worth it? The big guns are considerably cheaper in point and have the same Str/Ap/Rng, but lack the number of potential hits and stopping power that the pi-plate has. The only way that I think it beats down the pi-plate is in the AT area as it is a more accurate and more reliable choice for shooting at the enemy vehicular power.

How are the roles/tactics for big gunz changed when it comes to speed freekz or green tide?

Thanks for helping a big gun think-abouter out,
DaK

They are cheap, and accurate (for Orks).

Kannon are objectively the best, being versatile and fixed strength 8 in solid-shot mode (wagon killin'). Being able to switch between infantry killing and vehicle killing is taken for granted by marine ML's , but it's rare for orks.

I have a liking for ZZapp gunz, personally, but they are a tad less reliable.

The new artillery unit rules also help them

They don't really fit Speed Freeks, as they'll be left behind and alone fast..

For green tide Lobbas would be my choice, as they can fire indirectly over the heads of da ladz at considerable range, and aren't too shabby.

Would the biggunz not be left alone either way? And if that is not the case, would sticking my 20 lootas as support for the artillery make it safer to leave em behind?

Depends on how you roll. Not a biggie, but expect them to die. They are cheap throwaway artillery.

Speed Freek armies are in the enemy's face fast, leaving the big guns all alone. The Speed freeks tend to engage the enemy in their own side of the table, which is often out of range.



Green tide are slower to get to grips, so your big gunz will have units near them to jump any party-crashers for a turn or two if you want them to.

Best really to view them as dirt cheap, but dead by turn 3. They can be quite useful sometimes, but they do take a valuable Heavy slot.

If i was running kannon and lootas i'd put the kannon in front (preferably behing some cover). With the new artillery rules they are surprisingly tough, and offer cover to the lootas.

Ok, so should I stick with my looted wagons? Or move toward the big gunz. I am in a toss-up as it is a matter of take the wagons, or take the gunz and then take another unit of trukker boys or maybe a flier or some sort.

I would try both out.

Proxy some gunz and give em a try. See if you like them

I prefer them over boomwagons, but that's me. I have no idea how the math-hammer comes down, as i'm not a fan of Math-hammer.

I would rather say expect them to last the entire battle, as no one is going to waste high strength anti tank shooting to kill a T7 unit sitting in cover, costing only 60 pts. At least not in an Ork army where there are way more dangerous units running towards them. I personally like the kannons most, I buy them in a unit of three with three Ammo Runts, making them twin-inked for two turns (statistically), but as said above, the Lobba's are pretty good for what they cost too. Not sure about the Zapp gunz, imo they are to situational: not very good at tank hunting (few shots, random strength), and they're a bit to expensive for terminator sniping, the only thing they do in any constant matter, as far as I can see..

Big guns are the nuts. Kannons are best choice out of the lot, giving you a 20 point bs3 missile launcher, with lootas a close second for sniping.

Ive seen them used to great effect in double force org games, where 6 kannons supported 4 battle wagons as they rolled up the field.

At 60 points for 3, they're a great unit to splash in.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Big guns are the nuts. Kannons are best choice out of the lot, giving you a 20 point bs3 missile launcher, with lootas a close second for sniping.

Ive seen them used to great effect in double force org games, where 6 kannons supported 4 battle wagons as they rolled up the field.

At 60 points for 3, they're a great unit to splash in.

Cheap point cost
Considering the cheap point cost they are very expensive money wise!

 Afrodactyl wrote:
Big guns are the nuts. Kannons are best choice out of the lot, giving you a 20 point bs3 missile launcher, with lootas a close second for sniping.

Ive seen them used to great effect in double force org games, where 6 kannons supported 4 battle wagons as they rolled up the field.

At 60 points for 3, they're a great unit to splash in.

Wait, are you saying Kannons are better than Lootas? I'll pretend I didn't see that. Heresy!

Anyway, when 6th edition came out I went crazy with Big Gun due to the low cost and the oh so seductive new artillery rules, then abruptly gave them up. Their merit is in survivability rather than any strong firepower. They have shock value, as opponents who haven't seen them before will try to destroy them vigorously. However, after a few games, they will understand that the Big Gunz aren't really posing a huge threat to the army, the Kannon being lacklustre against most targets (IG can field much, much more BS3 MLs for cheaper, but often doesn't...guess why?), the Lobba having no AP and the Zzap gun being too unreliable. Plus, getting Kannons and Zzaps in range can be tricky. And they're also extremely vulnerable to infiltrators, outflankers and the like. They're good for low points limits (750 and less) but otherwise I'd rather go for other options.

I have always found that the big gunz are wonderful in small games.

Since they are so cheap having 9 kannons for what uhm 180 points?

But in higher point games.. Like over 1k there are better heavy support options.

 Ascalam wrote:
Depends on how you roll. Not a biggie, but expect them to die. They are cheap throwaway artillery.

Speed Freek armies are in the enemy's face fast, leaving the big guns all alone. The Speed freeks tend to engage the enemy in their own side of the table, which is often out of range.



Green tide are slower to get to grips, so your big gunz will have units near them to jump any party-crashers for a turn or two if you want them to.

Best really to view them as dirt cheap, but dead by turn 3. They can be quite useful sometimes, but they do take a valuable Heavy slot.

If i was running kannon and lootas i'd put the kannon in front (preferably behing some cover). With the new artillery rules they are surprisingly tough, and offer cover to the lootas.

It's interesting that you say that... I've never had my kannons wiped everyone always leaves them alone because they are so damnably tough at T7 with 3+ armor

I wouldn't use kannons in anything over 1,000pts. Anything below that, and their cheap cost and stupidly good T7 makes them very handy. They're not super strong, but they'll make decent transport killers and anti MC shooting. Plus, they'll provide some durable cover for lootas.

Sounds fun, looks like kannons are a perfect cheap substitute for boomguns against armies like tyranids.

 Big Mek Wurrzog wrote:

 Ascalam wrote:
Depends on how you roll. Not a biggie, but expect them to die. They are cheap throwaway artillery.

Speed Freek armies are in the enemy's face fast, leaving the big guns all alone. The Speed freeks tend to engage the enemy in their own side of the table, which is often out of range.



Green tide are slower to get to grips, so your big gunz will have units near them to jump any party-crashers for a turn or two if you want them to.

Best really to view them as dirt cheap, but dead by turn 3. They can be quite useful sometimes, but they do take a valuable Heavy slot.

If i was running kannon and lootas i'd put the kannon in front (preferably behing some cover). With the new artillery rules they are surprisingly tough, and offer cover to the lootas.

It's interesting that you say that... I've never had my kannons wiped everyone always leaves them alone because they are so damnably tough at T7 with 3+ armor

Could just be the guys i play with.

One will never forget the time a battery of Zapps cooked his Stormraven over easy due to good rolls (keeps harping on about it ), while another has a fear of anything AP3 being allowed in my army, and kills them first before they can ignore his precious marine's armour..

I don't really run Big Guns that often, so it could be that 6th ed's changes haven't really made much impact yet. I would generally lose them fast in 5th, and have only used them half a dozen times in 6th (as i prefer BW's...)

I normally cannot stand not using my beloved looted wagons. The access to cheap Str8 Ap3 Pi-plates is a deal that is too good to pass up with allowance to make some wacky looking models. I am trying out the big guns definitely sometime, but the point of those dudes is for against Mech-ed armies.

Well I wouldn't say they're a replacement for lootas, so much as a suplement to them. Lootas are good fer killin wagons and gribblies. Kannons are good fer killin wagons, gribblies, and little uns. Both are cheap, and both provide good firepower. However, kannons are a lot tougher than lootas, and are more likely to shrug off anything at that points level.

They often end up getting ignored, as most armies just cant field weapons strong enough to kill them and handle your other threats.

Of course, you could always take both

i want to mess with them, but im scratchbuilding them. I am not paying 22+ per big gun when theyre a nice quark and not a real asset lol.

My issue with them is onlythe Lobba has the range to be an issue, but lacks the punch. Everything it can take out your bikers or manz missiles would be much faster and happier to deal with.
Zzap has potential for insane punch, but 36range and usually sub-par punch kills it. I take it on the BW though since thats usually in range and i ignore the 11-12 roll effects.
Kannons also are too dang short. They have the punch to be an issue and also the flak for anti-infantry should it arise, but again its the damn range. You cant fire and move, and most armies have more range than the kannon so they'd get at least 1 free turn of fire at it at least. And being that close you might find some unwanted AP2 stuff finding it.

If you have BW kits, the spare turret guns and armour plates are a good start

i use both guns from my BW kits (magnetized) so i dont have to worry about forgetting which has what since the Zzap gun is clearly a zzap gun.
I do have the Killkannon from my deffrolla sprues, but thats a little large lol plus i intend to use that for a Boomgun wagon eventually

I like the indirect fire of lobbas

Exalbaru wrote:
I like the indirect fire of lobbas

I'm with you. Dropping 3 S5 blasts on a heavy weapon/sarg lets you barrage snipe something of value.
~9 hits with 3 templates will snipe a sarge, 4-5 hits with the 3 templates will snipe a heavy weapon.
You're not going to kill the whole squad, but you might get that flamer...

-Matt

HawaiiMatt wrote:

Exalbaru wrote:
I like the indirect fire of lobbas

I'm with you. Dropping 3 S5 blasts on a heavy weapon/sarg lets you barrage snipe something of value.
~9 hits with 3 templates will snipe a sarge, 4-5 hits with the 3 templates will snipe a heavy weapon.
You're not going to kill the whole squad, but you might get that flamer...

-Matt

Also, that brings up a leadership for alot of armies squads. nothing quite like making them turn and run off the board.

Im playing with the Zapp guns, there are just way to many termies running around my area. But you kill two and you just made you points back. Or they target the gunz and somthing realy beastly gets through to krup their army. Besides I like my Lootas having the cover save since I do not have any fortifications.

Personally i have never made anyone run away. I either eliminated them or they eliminated me lol.

Do you think that sniping idea would work with 6 lobbas? I feel like i cant do jack squat without at least 1 battlewagon even if i run bikes. And im not running meganobs ifim running bikes for the dedicated BW lol

Not to mention that the lobbas are perfect for slaying the incoming horde of a rival ork clan or stomping a whole swathe of bugs trying to eat da boss.

 Da Kommizzar wrote:
Would the biggunz not be left alone either way? And if that is not the case, would sticking my 20 lootas as support for the artillery make it safer to leave em behind?

From my experience people rarely attack big guns, because they are both not very dangerous and quite durable.
T7 isn't that easy to kill + they got some armour. So when they do get attacked they arn't dead right away, my big guns have trapped some tyranit warriors for multiple turns, a grot even killed one.

Same with lobba's, they are far away & don't really do a lot o hurt, so often left alone. But counted afterwards, they will have picked off 6-7 marines or so, netto always making up their points. I see lobba's as some kind o 'safe investment'; they don't do that much, but you nearly always gain. Their tactical role for me is counter-range/artillery, picking of heavy weapon squats, other lootas, IG psyker mobs, etc.

PLUS I find big guns have some use in dealing with the swamp/forest/difficult terrain that opponents usually place in my deployment zone to hinder the horde; as I now place my guns in it, giving them extra cover + charge-delay & not wasting space fitting all my boyz on my edge. I'd recommend that.

/

Now for the comparison, I used to like looted weagons but now I've got Tau allies and the hammerhead > looted weagon by far. I don't think big guns are that killy but more reliable/safer investment. However they lack the intimidating factor & extra punch. How about mixing them up?

I'm running 3 Kannons (May try out Zzap Guns) on top of my bastion.

That way 1 crew member can fire the Lascannon (I prefer it over the Quad Gun) and the others can make a mess of just about anything.

Dr. What wrote:
I'm running 3 Kannons (May try out Zzap Guns) on top of my bastion.

That way 1 crew member can fire the Lascannon (I prefer it over the Quad Gun) and the others can make a mess of just about anything.

What's the total cost on that inc. the bastion?

I swear by Lobbas. My fire support almost always consists of 2 mobs of lootas and two lobba batteries resting neatly behind an Aegis Defense Line with a Quad gun. I take ammo runts and just 2 extra crew with them (these man the quad gun). I think this configuration gives me the greatest chance are getting First Blood turn 1 and it gives me solid anti-air defense.

I take Lobba's because they dont require LOS, they have 48 inch range and I can snipe with them. Anything arriving from DS is neatly packed in tight for the Lobba template. They rarely get targetted primarily because by turn 2 I have trukk boyz and Nob Bikers in the opposite deployment zone duffing things up.