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[user]. Ok everybody, who do you guys think would win in a fight with catachans vs plague marines. The fight takes place on catachan. The plague marines are able to pollute some of the jungle, but it swifly grows bhack. Also they are immune to the stings and bites of the insects there. So who would win?

Not enough info. Unit size of the Plague Marines at lest are needed.

I'd say from a disease point of view its pretty much even.

But I would say the larger creatures such as Catachan Devils etc would be what wins it for catachan.

I would have to go with the plague marines just because things like a catachan devil are nothing compared to the sustained fire of Marine bolters.

If you fight plague marines while walking around with half your skin exposed, you are going to have a bad time.

A force of Plague Marines invades Catachan? This isnt a contest, Plague Marines would fething destroy Catachan.

Like I seriously do not think you could have made this match up more unfair for the Catachans if you tried. The marines will be immune to most of the problems of the jungle, the jungle will become infested by Nurgle and the newly infested chaos jungle would corrupt/kill the Catachans. The Marines wouldnt even really have to fight them.

What do you think the regeneration rate of the quickly growing jungle would match against the nurgle rot? Maybe it would overpower it I guess. Anyhow yeah I guess the plague marines would win. I was only thinking a small force of them though. 50 catachans for every plague marine wpuld be about what I invisioned.

 Color Sgt. Kell wrote:
What do you think the regeneration rate of the quickly growing jungle would match against the nurgle rot? Maybe it would overpower it I guess. Anyhow yeah I guess the plague marines would win. I was only thinking a small force of them though. 50 catachans for every plague marine wpuld be about what I invisioned.

Even at those numbers it would be bad for the Catachan seeing as everything on the planet would become even more hostile to them and then having to deal with 50 Plague Marines would be ludicrous even for them. Plus you have to factor in any daemons of Nurgle that may pop in to spread a little more insanity to the fight.

 Galdos wrote:
A force of Plague Marines invades Catachan? This isnt a contest, Plague Marines would fething destroy Catachan.

Like I seriously do not think you could have made this match up more unfair for the Catachans if you tried. The marines will be immune to most of the problems of the jungle, the jungle will become infested by Nurgle and the newly infested chaos jungle would corrupt/kill the Catachans. The Marines wouldnt even really have to fight them.

This, IMO.

Catachan's flora and fauna simply can't begin to compare to the concoctions of Father Nurgle. Even if the Plague Marines are killed to a man, the damage would be done. Catachan would probably be subjected to Exterminatus.

IDK, it may well be possible to contain and wipe out any "Infected" area. Fire seems to work most times.

 Hunterindarkness wrote:
IDK, it may well be possible to contain and wipe out any "Infected" area. Fire seems to work most times.

Try burning down the Amazon Rain forest while you are IN IT.

Chaos Marines wouldnt even need to leave their base. They would make land fall, sacifice some cultist to nurgle, throw him against a tree, and play cards for the next few days as the jungle kills every living thing on the planet and becomes a Nurgles new favorite planet.

I guess I am just not seeing it. If it was that simple you never could stop Nurgal, ever. He could own a whole sector before anyone knew it. It would take time to corrupt a whole world, months at lest, maybe far longer on others. Blasting and burning things to lifeless ash kills most if not all infections. Demonic infection or not.

With Catachan, there is a truly excessive, and very eager to spread, amounts of flora and fauna. Making Catachan's overtly aggressive ecosystem carriers for Nurgle's contagions would be the doom of human life on Catachan.

 Hunterindarkness wrote:
I guess I am just not seeing it. If it was that simple you never could stop Nurgal, ever. He could own a whole sector before anyone knew it. It would take time to corrupt a whole world, months at lest, maybe far longer on others. Blasting and burning things to lifeless ash kills most if not all infections. Demonic infection or not.

Well he can be defeated but to give you an idea, he would do horrible on Tallaran. You arnt going to turn the desert into poison producing facility, its just sand. Valhalla with its Ice would also suck for Nurgle.

If you were placed on modern day earth, ya you could easily burn down Nurgles forest. The problem is you are suggesting destroying a forest, one of the places Nurgle would perform the best in, and to make things worse, you are trying to destroy it while you are currently in it.

 Color Sgt. Kell wrote:
What do you think the regeneration rate of the quickly growing jungle would match against the nurgle rot? Maybe it would overpower it I guess.

The Rot does not destroy the jungle, it infests it. So a fast regeneration rate would only make it worse as it spreads the Rot more quickly. It makes it possessed and even more dangerous for the Catachans and only for them as the PMs would be able to ignore it as it does come from their patron.

Its not really overly hard to believe that the plague marines would win. the best case scenario that i could see is that they manage to contain them. then you got warp diseases in addition to the normal deadliness of catacha.

but nurgle can never be stopped, especially by them

 Color Sgt. Kell wrote:
What do you think the regeneration rate of the quickly growing jungle would match against the nurgle rot? Maybe it would overpower it I guess. Anyhow yeah I guess the plague marines would win. I was only thinking a small force of them though. 50 catachans for every plague marine wpuld be about what I invisioned.

Nurgle's diseases would corrupt the jungle and use it to its advantage.

 Hunterindarkness wrote:
IDK, it may well be possible to contain and wipe out any "Infected" area. Fire seems to work most times.

Well, exactly. Fire does work. That's why the Imperium would just call an Exterminatus on Catachan to end the rot. The rot can't effect the jungle if there's no more jungle!

Yeah, because clearly the Plague Marines would roll over Catachan, on the Catachan's own turf.

Roll in their own tanks, kill the plague marines, burn the jungle in a large radius around their operational zone. Call it a day.

I'm sure there are many who have tried and failed to take out one of the most famous Guard regiments homeworld.

Crazyterran wrote:
Yeah, because clearly the Plague Marines would roll over Catachan, on the Catachan's own turf.

Roll in their own tanks, kill the plague marines, burn the jungle in a large radius around their operational zone. Call it a day.

I'm sure there are many who have tried and failed to take out one of the most famous Guard regiments homeworld.

All the PM would need to do is infect it. At the rate the Catachan jungle grows (where you could cut down a tree and practically have it back by nightfall), the rot would spread so fast that the Imperium would basically need to either fire bomb the whole planet or just destroy it. Obviously, in a fighting engagement the Catachans would win by home field advantage, but by that point the damage is done. It doesn't take a whole lot to infect a planet with the rot, especially if you have Plague Marines actually ON the planet. Catachan wildlife and fauna is tough and mean, make it demonic and the world is screwed. They could fight it, but it would be a LONG clean-up job.

Also, im not too sure about how many have tried to take Catachan in general. It doesn't really provide any sort of tactical or strategic advantage, it may wipe out a large amount of Guard regiments (not like that makes a difference) but there are closer planets you can do that to and actually gain an advantage.

We really don't know enough about anything to make sweeping generalisations. Maybe the 'new' growth of the forest would overwhelm the infected parts. Maybe not. The Plague Marines don't see to have ever really used much in the way of airborne virus weapons, which would be required to 'infect' a jungle like that. At least, I can't think of any sources where they've done that. Infection seems to take time, and is usually linked to rituals and warp portals and what-not, rather than just letting some viral stock into the atmosphere and infecting everything.

It all depends on the size of the forces. Chatacha is a very military style planet with some of the best so it would have to be a large force of Plague Marines but if they really got there with no outside reinforcements the plagues would win. Unfortunately for the marines Chatacha also would have a huge airfleet plus reinforcements extremely close by so in a drawn out fight it would be no contest.

 Kaldor wrote:
We really don't know enough about anything to make sweeping generalisations. Maybe the 'new' growth of the forest would overwhelm the infected parts. Maybe not. The Plague Marines don't see to have ever really used much in the way of airborne virus weapons, which would be required to 'infect' a jungle like that. At least, I can't think of any sources where they've done that. Infection seems to take time, and is usually linked to rituals and warp portals and what-not, rather than just letting some viral stock into the atmosphere and infecting everything.

There are many different types of infections that the Plague Marines could use to blight a planet seeing as most of them are constantly mutating and getting stronger. Typhus has spread his destroyer plague to many different planets and for the most part has never even set foot on many of them. And while you are correct in the fact that infection can take time the infections that Nurgle blesses the Plague Marines with are far more virulent than the average everyday infections dealt with by most humans. Factor that with the Catachan jungle growing at an insane rate constantly and it spells fast disaster for the planet if not contained almost immediately.

So even if the Catachan do fight off an incursion of Plague Marines it is feasible to say that if they don't win quickly the planet could doom itself with it's rampant growth.

I love the topic though it is very debatable.

Crazyterran wrote:
Yeah, because clearly the Plague Marines would roll over Catachan, on the Catachan's own turf.

Roll in their own tanks, kill the plague marines, burn the jungle in a large radius around their operational zone. Call it a day.

I'm sure there are many who have tried and failed to take out one of the most famous Guard regiments homeworld.

Ya they would, had you not been reading the post here?

Catachan is a jungle world, the tanks will be ineffective. Likewise it makes movement of mass infantry units impossible. The IG would HAVE TOO rely on Hunter killer teams of 10 men or less to kill a force of Plague Marines. That is the reason why the Catachans are good at gurreilla warfare but it doesnt mean they will succed.

Catachans are basic humans who have learned to deal with the horrors from the planet, that does not mean they control it or are immune to it. The people who join the Catachan regiments are those who SURVIVED long enough to be recruited. Nurgle specializes in things like rot and would courrupt the jungle. This would actually make the jungle even MORE deadly than it already is. Poison coming from the Jungle, a spore from a tree could fly in the air, be carried by the wind, and hit another section of the forest and start corrupting that too. This would occur very quickly of course (hence one reason why Nurgle is so deadly)

And burning the forest? Again, imagine trying to burn down the Amazon Rain Forest, the section a group of rebels are in in South America, WHILE YOUR BASE is INSIDE the Amazon Rain Forest. All you are going to do is kill yourselves in the process

Plague marines are only immune to disease. They are entirely subject to the various poisons and other predators of Catachan. They would still be subject to brain leafs, or worst case the noxious toad that when hit it kills everything in a five mile radius with it's stink alone.

Nor could they just infect a tree and let nurgle do the work for them. The foliage would resist corruption just as much as it does people. And the Catachans routinely burn all the forest around their settlements and bases. It would not be difficult for them to napalm a few areas around the plague marines.

So aside from the "Wizard did it" excuse, if a bunch of plague marines did drop onto Catachan, they would have to tromp through the jungle facing the same problems the natives do.
They would be less mobile, since they are bigger and bulkier. They would attract all sorts of attention from the creatures around them, since they stink and make lots of noise when the move.

Beside, it would only be a matter of time before Sly Marbo kills them all anyway

That and anti plant technology is still available, fire isn't needed to kill off plant life. As far as I'm aware its not retconned out.

That and in every description of nurgle corrupted environments iv read, they all seem to be localised to a specific source. Addmittedly the jungle would be even deadlier with disease, but Catachan is anyway.

Then we have to ask just what are the nurgle capabilities and resistances of the plaguemarines, are they immune to various flora and fauna of catachan, the likes of Catachan devils and vypers, Great barking toads, Spiker plants and Brain leafs? What about the acidic bogs surrounding some trees?

There are so many unknowns to this to be decisive.

What I would say about mass movement of troops, I would say if anyone can do it, its the catachans,

 Eetion wrote:
That and anti plant technology is still available, fire isn't needed to kill off plant life. As far as I'm aware its not retconned out.

That and in every description of nurgle corrupted environments iv read, they all seem to be localised to a specific source. Addmittedly the jungle would be even deadlier with disease, but Catachan is anyway.

Then we have to ask just what are the nurgle capabilities and resistances of the plaguemarines, are they immune to various flora and fauna of catachan, the likes of Catachan devils and vypers, Great barking toads, Spiker plants and Brain leafs? What about the acidic bogs surrounding some trees?

There are so many unknowns to this to be decisive.

What I would say about mass movement of troops, I would say if anyone can do it, its the catachans,

As to the capabilities of a Plague Marine and his resistance to all of the above mentioned flora and fauna. Think of it like this if the poxes, buboes and general virulent nastiness that they are infected with don't kill them then the poisons of the inhabiting organisms of Catachan will be of no hindrance to them so this is really not an unknown.

And as to the destruction of the planet via contagion think of it like this the toxins that are used by the Plague Marines are warp created so therefore far more apt to be aggressive in replication and transference from plant to plant and animal to animal and maybe even cross species because of the nature of the warp pathogen constantly changing.

I'm not saying it would be impossible to contain and stop but if not done ASAP and if left unchecked it would most certainly spell Exterminatus for Catachan by the Inquisition just to be on the safe side.

 Bloodfrenzy187 wrote:

 Eetion wrote:
That and anti plant technology is still available, fire isn't needed to kill off plant life. As far as I'm aware its not retconned out.

That and in every description of nurgle corrupted environments iv read, they all seem to be localised to a specific source. Addmittedly the jungle would be even deadlier with disease, but Catachan is anyway.

Then we have to ask just what are the nurgle capabilities and resistances of the plaguemarines, are they immune to various flora and fauna of catachan, the likes of Catachan devils and vypers, Great barking toads, Spiker plants and Brain leafs? What about the acidic bogs surrounding some trees?

There are so many unknowns to this to be decisive.

What I would say about mass movement of troops, I would say if anyone can do it, its the catachans,

As to the capabilities of a Plague Marine and his resistance to all of the above mentioned flora and fauna. Think of it like this if the poxes, buboes and general virulent nastiness that they are infected with don't kill them then the poisons of the inhabiting organisms of Catachan will be of no hindrance to them so this is really not an unknown.

And as to the destruction of the planet via contagion think of it like this the toxins that are used by the Plague Marines are warp created so therefore far more apt to be aggressive in replication and transference from plant to plant and animal to animal and maybe even cross species because of the nature of the warp pathogen constantly changing.

I'm not saying it would be impossible to contain and stop but if not done ASAP and if left unchecked it would most certainly spell Exterminatus for Catachan by the Inquisition just to be on the safe side.

That is entirely assumption. There are more than just poisons. Granted they would probably have an increased resistance to said poisons and venoms, and I'd feel confident at them being resistant to the native diseases and bacteria, but the corrosive venoms of the catachan vipers or mutogenic chemicals of the spiker, the acidic bogs all may prove fatal. Of course the plague marines would have an increased resilience, but that does not equate to immunity.

As for turning the whole forest into nurgles playground, cite a reference that's how it spreads please cos iv only seen such environmental transformations around a central corrupted hub. Are the diseases even transeferable to native flora or fauna, some species as some viruses may not even been present. I find it hard to believe that Plague Marines are afflicted with fin rot, or mouldy branchs, or itchy leaf syndrome.

I'm saying that environmental contamination can and does occur, but iv never seen anything that short term contact in passing automaticly corrupts an environment. It might do. But that being the case Nurgle would be unstopable, and effects such as the sestroyer hive being rather redundant if all they had to do was go for a stroll and leave.

I have a hunch that the capabilities of the Plaguemarines and over exaggerated whilst theplanetary defences of catachan being disregarded too easily.

Durandal wrote:
Plague marines are only immune to disease. They are entirely subject to the various poisons and other predators of Catachan. They would still be subject to brain leafs, or worst case the noxious toad that when hit it kills everything in a five mile radius with it's stink alone.

Nor could they just infect a tree and let nurgle do the work for them. The foliage would resist corruption just as much as it does people. And the Catachans routinely burn all the forest around their settlements and bases. It would not be difficult for them to napalm a few areas around the plague marines.

So aside from the "Wizard did it" excuse, if a bunch of plague marines did drop onto Catachan, they would have to tromp through the jungle facing the same problems the natives do.
They would be less mobile, since they are bigger and bulkier. They would attract all sorts of attention from the creatures around them, since they stink and make lots of noise when the move.

Beside, it would only be a matter of time before Sly Marbo kills them all anyway

Plague Marines ARE immune to poisons. The only thing they have to worry about on Catachan is the predators ...

actually as I read your post Im worried you are trolling me because your post is so wrong....

Well Ill continue on anyways.

Predators, we are talking about Space Marines here, if the people of Catachan can handle (note they just BARELY handle it) than the Space Marines can handle it. Remember predators will STILL be trying to kill the Catachan warriors so this is more of a disadvantage to the Guard than the marines.

The forest trees that attack the invading army? We are talking about Marines first off so its going to have trouble getting through the Marine armor, thats not to say it wont be able to, it would, but its a lot harder than the instant kills it would get against Catachans.

Did you really suggest something is going to defeat the plague marines with smell?

The foliage is going to resist corruption? What are these, magic trees? Are they fused with the blood of Tau warriors or something? Trees wouldnt be able to resist corruption of Nurgle anymore than a basic human can resist any of nurgle's diseases. Oh wait you said as much as the people do, well judging by things like the Plague of Unbelief we know how horrible that goes for people.

If by routinely burn all the forest around their settlements and bases you mean the forest destroys their bases and settlements and they have to relocate than yes that is correct. Yes it WOULD be difficult to manage a forest fire from INSIDE a forest that is ACTIVELY trying to kill you. Can it be done? Oh ya it can, with the right equipment like aircraft. But if it was that easy, why is Catachan still the world it is? Why hasnt huge chuncks of the jungle already been burn down so that it would be easier to live on. Its because they dont have the proper materials to do this. The Imperium COULD do it if they wanted Im sure but they have no interest in doing it so the equipment needed to do stuff like this isnt on Catachan (or again, it would be used)


So if the Marines dropped they would fail SOME of the same problems the natives do, except because of what they are, they will be able to handle it BETTER than the natives do. Chaos Marines dont need to be that mobile in a case like this, it would make things inconvient for them sure but that doesnt mean too much sense the Catachan warriors would have trouble exploiting this weakness. The forces of Nurgle are USE to not being mobile, ya this would suck for forces of Tzeentch or Khorne but Nurgle would just say "My guys move that slowly on open ground, all you did was give them extra cover"

That and anti plant technology is still available, fire isn't needed to kill off plant life. As far as I'm aware its not retconned out.

That and in every description of nurgle corrupted environments iv read, they all seem to be localised to a specific source. Addmittedly the jungle would be even deadlier with disease, but Catachan is anyway.

Then we have to ask just what are the nurgle capabilities and resistances of the plaguemarines, are they immune to various flora and fauna of catachan, the likes of Catachan devils and vypers, Great barking toads, Spiker plants and Brain leafs? What about the acidic bogs surrounding some trees?

There are so many unknowns to this to be decisive.

What I would say about mass movement of troops, I would say if anyone can do it, its the catachans

See my earlier post, ya anti planet technology would help, but judging by fluff of Catachan, they apperently dont have much.

A specific source? Like you mean it has a focal point? Ya if you hot drop 1 Plague Marine on the planet the planet isnt going to become Nurgle's playground. I mean if Nurgle launches a fullscale invasion than there is going to be a location of corruption that it will all spread from. This isnt instant of course, there is a small window of oppurtunity where the Plague Marines would be along after planet fall but I simply do not believe there is enough time for the Catachans to mobilize a big enough force to stop a Chaos invasion before whatever warp sorceries is accomplished.

Nurgle is immune to almost all poisons and deseases. Hell to give you an idea, when the Death Guard were still LOYAL they would DRINK poison before battles knowing their immune systems could handle it. THAN they became Plague Marines... this give you an idea of their tollerance. You arnt going to kill them by getting them sick (like you can kill Catachans) you need to kill them with physical force.

Ya if anyone is going to be able to move troops on Catachans in mass it will be the Catachans. Catachans would DESTROY Eldar if they attempted this, the problem is we are talking about PLAGUE MARINES. The ammount of firepower that would be needed to kill Plague Marines the Catachans simply wont be able to move.

That is entirely assumption. There are more than just poisons. Granted they would probably have an increased resistance to said poisons and venoms, and I'd feel confident at them being resistant to the native diseases and bacteria, but the corrosive venoms of the catachan vipers or mutogenic chemicals of the spiker, the acidic bogs all may prove fatal. Of course the plague marines would have an increased resilience, but that does not equate to immunity.

As for turning the whole forest into nurgles playground, cite a reference that's how it spreads please cos iv only seen such environmental transformations around a central corrupted hub. Are the diseases even transeferable to native flora or fauna, some species as some viruses may not even been present. I find it hard to believe that Plague Marines are afflicted with fin rot, or mouldy branchs, or itchy leaf syndrome.

I'm saying that environmental contamination can and does occur, but iv never seen anything that short term contact in passing automaticly corrupts an environment. It might do. But that being the case Nurgle would be unstopable, and effects such as the sestroyer hive being rather redundant if all they had to do was go for a stroll and leave.

I have a hunch that the capabilities of the Plaguemarines and over exaggerated whilst theplanetary defences of catachan being disregarded too easily.

Your first sentence is correct, they would be more resistance to acid and things of that nature. The people of Catachan are far less resistance to it is the only counter to that.

Yes you need to have a starting point of the corruption first. However there are multiple ways to get that starting point corrupted. From a planetary invasion which would have sorcery and rituals performed to get a start point to a simple opening in the warp of a demonic invasion. Corruption spreads from this central point once it is made.

Im not sure what your concern about Plague Marines being affected by diseases are, we are talking about Nurgle. The Chaos God of plague and disease, ya these guys are going to be immune to it.

Im sorry if we gave the impression that simply putting one marine on the planet would corrupt the entire planet, no thats not going to happen. This is around the idea of a massive invasion of the planet. With these numbers the contamination will occur but that doesnt mean it will happen quickly. It could take months or years for a planet to become completely corrupted, it is a slow process. Think of it like Tiberium from Command and Conquer. It starts in Italy and a small single crystal and over the course of like 50 years it covers 80% of earth. It grows slowly from one spot but it grows exponentially. (sorry for that spelling) Unlike Tiberium, it doesnt just happen, Nurgle and his followers have to activelly being pushing it to spread. However it spreads on some planets easier than others. As I mentioned early, Nurgle would perform well on a forest planet because his rot and diseases have a lot to work off of yet he would be DESTROYED on Tallaran because there is nothing to work with. Thats why Nurgle is stopable, because not every planet is a good planet to invade.



Finally, Catachan doesnt have very good planetary defenses because its not even remotely prepared for an invasion, it is too busy trying to survive in the woods. They DO have fortresses and could EASILY repell a small task force or something but a planetary invasion of even moderate size would ruin Catachan. I would put my money that a small invasion fleet would be able to accomplish the task even though that one would be closer.






God I typed a lot. I feel I need to post this.