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HQ:
CCS, 100pts - Vox, Regimental Standard, 2 Plasmas

Troops #1: Infantry Platoon
PCS, 45pts - 3 Flamers
'Blob' (Squads #1, #2 and #3 combined), 215pts - Vox, 3 Lascannons

Troops #2: Infantry Platoon
PCS, 45pts - 3 Flamers
'Blob' (Squads #1, #2 and #3 combined), 215pts - Vox, 3 Lascannons

Heavy Support #1: LRBT Squadron
2 LRBT, 300pts

Heavy Support #2:
Griffon, 75pts

Total 995pts, 75 soldiers.

What do you think?

I cant see 1 griffon contributing much to this list. I'd probably drop it and get an ADL so your guys dont drop like flies and then with the remainder, a few meltaguns in you squads for a bit of insurance. Alternatively you could loose the Voxs as well since they're not that useful and then drop 2 flamers and take a quad gun with the ADL. Unless your expecting fliers I may be inclined to take meltas.

Unsquadron the leman russ as they dont need to be squaded.

Also if you dont have commissars for those blobs they will just get over run if they get assaulted and you will lose a lot of guys in 1 assault phase.

Griffon could be dropped for points.

What exactly are you going to do for points.

Updated List:

HQ:
CCS, 100pts - Vox, Regimental Standard, 2 Plasmas

Troops #1: Infantry Platoon
PCS, 45pts - 3 Flamers
'Blob' (Squads #1, #2 and #3 combined), 250pts - Commissar, Vox, 3 Lascannons

Troops #2: Infantry Platoon
PCS, 45pts - 3 Flamers
'Blob' (Squads #1, #2 and #3 combined), 250pts - Commissar, Vox, 3 Lascannons

Heavy Support #1:
LRBT, 150pts

Heavy Support #2:
LRBT, 150pts

Total 990pts, 77 soldiers, 2 LRBTs

What do you think?

Well, what do you think of the updated version?

Looks good, with the last 10 points I would buy 2 flamers or a Melta Gun or Banner (I think their 10?) but other than that, looks sound. Fliers look like a hazard for this army though, so maybe scournge a couple of points and grab yourself a Hydra (Maybe drop the second Leman Russ and use the left over points to get a HWS or SWS OR Guardsman Marbo.

What would be better - drop one Russ for a Hydra and a Griffon or for a Vendetta?

Or replace both LRBTs with Valks/Vends?

IMHO i would get a hydra and use the spare points to invest ina few more squads. Your men will die quickly so i would get an adl or just drop the hydra and get the hydra add on on the adl and spend some of the other points on men


Automatically Appended Next Post:
IMHO i would get a hydra and use the spare points to invest ina few more squads. Your men will die quickly so i would get an adl or just drop the hydra and get the hydra add on on the adl and spend some of the other points on men

Two options:

List #1:

HQ:
CCS, 100pts - Vox, Regimental Standard, 2 Plasmas

Elites:
Psyker Battle Squad, 60pts

Troops #1: Infantry Platoon
PCS, 45pts - 3 Flamers
'Blob' (Squads #1, #2 and #3 combined), 250pts - Commissar, Vox, 3 Lascannons

Troops #2: Infantry Platoon
PCS, 45pts - 3 Flamers
'Blob' (Squads #1, #2 and #3 combined), 250pts - Commissar, Vox, 3 Lascannons

Heavy Support :
LRBT, 150pts

Fortifications:
Aegis Defence Line, 100pts - Quad Cannon (cannon manned by a Commissar)

Total 1,000pts

List #2:

HQ:
CCS, 100pts - Vox, Regimental Standard, Plasma

Troops #1: Infantry Platoon
PCS, 45pts - 3 Flamers
'Blob' (Squads #1, #2 and #3 combined), 250pts - Commissar, Vox, 3 Lascannons

Troops #2: Infantry Platoon
PCS, 45pts - 3 Flamers
'Blob' (Squads #1, #2 and #3 combined), 250pts - Commissar, Vox, 3 Lascannons

Heavy Support #1 :
LRBT, 150pts

Heavy Support #2:
Hydra, 75pts

Fortifications:
Aegis Defence Line, 100pts - Quad Cannon (cannon manned by a Commissar)

Total 1,000pts

Which do you think would be more effective?

Even better, IMHO:

HQ:
CCS, 115pts - Vox, Regimental Standard, 2 Plasmas

Troops #1: Infantry Platoon
PCS, 50pts - 4 Flamers
'Blob' (Squads #1, #2 and #3 combined), 250pts - Commissar, Vox, 3 Lascannons

Troops #2: Infantry Platoon
PCS, 50pts - 4 Flamers
'Blob' (Squads #1, #2 and #3 combined), 250pts - Commissar, Vox, 3 Lascannons

Fast Attack:
Vendetta, 130pts

Heavy Support :
LRBT, 150pts

Total 995pts, 77 men, Vendetta, LRBT

TONS of dice to roll, including six STR 9 AP 2 (IIRC) Lascannon attacks. Now add to that FRSRF and BiD and this means EVEN MORE DICE! The Vendetta is either for shooting down enemy flyers, or, if there are no enemy flyers around, busting enemy tanks. The LRBT brings some long-range template firepower.

I think I like your 2nd list from the post before. With the lack of the ADL your infantry will be dropping too quick. The vendettas good, but only 1 unit and if that dies... you'll have quite a void in your army. I like the idea of the hydra as its there from the beginning and combined with the ADLs quad gun churns out alot of shots at enemy fliers. Also it can hide behind the ADL and other terrain where as the vendetta is normally pretty exposed.

I still think the voxes are unnecessary. For list 2 I think it would be better to drop the 3 voxes and take a 2nd plasmagun in your CCS. This will fill a much needed void for ap2, yes you can lascannon any deep striking terminators, but thats kind of a waste when the plasmagun can do it just fine and the lascannon probably has better targets off in the horizon.

Also with commissars in each of your combined squads, the regimental standards a bit redundant as it just spreads Ld 9 which they already have. Oh and yes +1 in combat... yay. So if you drop that as well and take another plasmagun, you've got a bit of an anti-terminator power house going on.

Final (?) List:

HQ:
CCS, 95pts - 3 Plasmas

Troops #1: Infantry Platoon
PCS, 45pts - 3 Flamers
'Blob' (Squads #1, #2 and #3 combined), 245pts - Commissar, 3 Lascannons

Troops #2: Infantry Platoon
PCS, 45pts - 3 Flamers
'Blob' (Squads #1, #2 and #3 combined), 245pts - Commissar, 3 Lascannons

Heavy Support #1 :
LRBT, 150pts

Heavy Support #2:
Hydra, 75pts

Fortifications:
Aegis Defence Line, 100pts - Quad Cannon (cannon manned by a Commissar)

Total 1,000pts, 77 troops, ADL, LRBT, Hydra. Flyers - BEWARE OF MY WRATH!

Well I like it... but we'll have to see what others think.

One other thing, would it be worth it to divide the flamers between the squads than focus them in the PCS. Then you've got wounds to ensure they dont die before being used, and can move them across the line to get the most template coverage. I think this would be something that would have to be play tested to see how it works out.

Thanks!

If there are no flyers hydras stink. Vendettas are perhaps the most ubsercosted unit in the game. The twin linked las cannons more than make up for bs3. I'd go vendetta over hydra however you run this.

Tough decision between Vendetta and ADL+Hydra... Or maybe ADL+Quad Cannon+Griffon?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Yet another option... Better than the last ones?

HQ:
CCS, 80pts - 2 Plasmas

Troops #1: Infantry Platoon
PCS, 45pts - 3 Flamers
'Blob' (Squads #1, #2 and #3 combined), 245pts - Commissar, 3 Lascannons

Troops #2: Infantry Platoon
PCS, 45pts - 3 Flamers
'Blob' (Squads #1, #2 and #3 combined), 245pts - Commissar, 3 Lascannons

Heavy Support #1 :
LRBT, 150pts

Fast Attack:
Vendetta, 130pts

Fortifications:
Aegis Defence Line, 50pts

Total 995pts, 77 troops, ADL, LRBT, Vendetta.

Erik speaks true, if there is fliers, the hydras great. Otherwise it is mediocre. I wouldn't take a lone griffon... it'll get sad. But vendettas like to lonewolf it, so the vendetta+ADL does make the most sense. I just think they're a bit cheap, as he said ubercosted. Like some necrons.

Ok, 'final' list:

Yet another option... Better than the last ones?

HQ:
CCS, 80pts - 2 Plasmas

Troops #1: Infantry Platoon
PCS, 45pts - 3 Flamers
'Blob' (Squads #1, #2 and #3 combined), 245pts - Commissar, 3 Lascannons

Troops #2: Infantry Platoon
PCS, 45pts - 3 Flamers
'Blob' (Squads #1, #2 and #3 combined), 245pts - Commissar, 3 Lascannons

Heavy Support #1 :
LRBT, 150pts

Fast Attack:
Vendetta, 130pts

Fortifications:
Aegis Defence Line, 50pts

Total 995pts, 77 troops, ADL, LRBT, Vendetta.

I'm a bit confused by the lascannons in your blobs... aren't your squads going to be moving around a lot, therefore making your lascannons a nearly useless BS 1 when fired?

 Lord PoPo wrote:
I'm a bit confused by the lascannons in your blobs... aren't your squads going to be moving around a lot, therefore making your lascannons a nearly useless BS 1 when fired?

I was thinking about using a "gunline" tactics with at least one squad - sitting behind the ADL and shooting and everything that moves.

Or are there more portable AT options for my squads?

I actually liked your lists better when they just had russes in them. This "one of each" strategy doesn't seem to have much going for it.

Also, I seriously question the shooty blobs. The commissars won't keep the lascannons (or the rest of the blob for that matter) any safer from being wiped out from enemy shooting, and don't even work with the regimental standard either. Plus, those commissars are a lot of points for just keeping a couple of lascannons on the table in one particular way.

I'd try something more like this, based off of an earlier list.

CCS - Regimental Standard, lascannon

PCS - 3 Flamers
PIS - meltagun, lascannon
PIS - meltagun, lascannon
PIS - meltagun, lascannon

PCS - lascannon
PIS - meltagun, lascannon
PIS - meltagun, lascannon
PIS - meltagun, lascannon

Demolisher
Demolisher

That way you get a lot more firepower than what you're bringing at the moment, and two russes is going to be a bit tricky to crack at this points level, while you're still bringing over 70 infantry models.

Hmmm... Won't the separate squads be very susceptible to being trampled by assaults and/or scared off the table? I thought that blobs with Commissars gave them some backbone...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'm worried that a lot of small squads will be easily trampled by stronger foes...

So, what's more effective - blobs or individual squads?

If you take a regimental standard in your CCS, the squads dont really need a commissar as the standard spreads Ld9 anyway. All you loose is stubborn, but that just prevents you from running in melees, which if you have lascannons and meltaguns you sometimes want to do.
Blobs are okay as they have to suffer more wounds from shooting before taking a Ld test, but then they still fail it at the same Ld as an individual squad and then you've got 2 or 3 squads worth retreating. With the meltagun/LC combo I think they work better individually as if they get in combat with CC specialists, they'll die regardless of being in a blob or not. So then only 1 squads caught up and wiped out rather than 3.

The only thing a commissar gets you is better leadership. Without one, you're at a rerollable Ld8 instead of a rerollable Ld9, and yes, you lose stubborn.

That said, you're not going to be winning close combat with guard infantry anymore (unless you've got some allied HQs to throw in there), for a lot of very good reasons.

It's better to let 1/3rd of the platoon get shellacked in close combat and then have the other 2/3ds hit them back with FRF or plasma guns (or whatever), rather than having the entire mass of them get ensnared in a close combat that they're never going to win.

All right, you have convinced me to go all for infantry squads (and I can still try blobs as well with the same models in another friendly game).

"Final" list:

HQ:
CCS, 80pts - 2 Plasmas

Troops #1: Infantry Platoon
PCS, 50pts - 4 Flamers
Squad #1, 70pts - lascannon
Squad #2, 70pts - lascannon
Squad #3, 70pts - lascannon

Troops #2: Infantry Platoon
PCS, 50pts - 4 Flamers
Squad #1, 70pts - lascannon
Squad #2, 70pts - lascannon
Squad #3, 70pts - lascannon

Heavy Support #1 :
LRBT, 150pts

Heavy Support #2:
LRBT, 150pts

Fortifications:
Aegis Defence Line, 100pts - Quad Cannon (manned by a CCS veteran?)

Total 1,000pts

What do you think?

This is a good "sit back and shoot" kinda of list. I like it, but a really up in your face Demon or Blood Angel army will be terrifying. The Leman Russ tanks do well in low point value games. I may consider removing all 6 lascannons (120 points) and getting a Vendetta instead. That way, you have dedicated anti-tank / a tiny bit of flyer defense and the infantry blobs can run around all day long. If you wanted, you could remove the quadgun and add 5 autocannon teams into the blob instead. I find that with BS1, the Lascannons are too expensive / go to waste. I prefer something with multiple shots, like the Heavy Bolter or (my personal choice) autocannons. Regardless, to answer your question about big or small squads, I prefer Veterans. I know that Infantry platoons are coming back in a major way, but plasma veterans in chimeras hit really hard mid-field now a days. Tough call. The only infantry blob lists I've seen on a top table in my local gaming region have some sort of marine allies. Usually Space Wolves or Blood Angels (Note: this is all in 1850 or 2000 point tournaments)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, I don't necessarily recommend removing that quad-gun, even though I mentioned it. Against TEQs, MEQs, pretty much anything I'd take the autocannons, but the quad-gun is nice if you think you'll go up against some flyer heavy lists. If that's the case, which I assume it is because you've taken the gun, I'd also stick to the Vendetta, over the Lascannons in the infantry blobs... Quad-Gun + Vendetta = reasonably good anti-air. Capable of dropping a couple Chaos Helldrakes pretty consistently.

The problem with removing the Lascannons would be having no AT capability whatsoever except for the CCS, the tanks and the Vendetta. The rest would be STR 3 Lasguns...

Oh, and I *DO* have a MeltaVets/Chimera list as well:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/496760.page

So, how should I give my infantry squads an AT capability without Lascannons? Plasmas? Meltas? Or are these ineffective at BS3?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Still thinking about blobbing them up to toughen them up and maybe give each blob a Vox (and a Commissar?).

I'd drop the ADL. Getting cover for 60 infantry isn't THAT hard, and a single quadgun won't win you the air war.

Those points could be spent much better on special weapons for your infantry, or on better russes. Spending a third of your points for just a pair of battlecannon shots isn't great. For not much more, you can take better russes and give them cheap hull weapons.