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 ace101 wrote:
I've always thought that WT would be more useful against tau and necrons, considering they have I2, all but the suit would most likely fail the test, making them much less threatening, and if they survive the BS1 countershooting, they'll shred Tau/Necrons.

Unfortunately, you don't often see stuff that ain't suits when you face tau. And picking on 70-100 pt of firewarriors when you expose yourself to intercept from riptides and risk mishaps... I don't know how low should they cost to pay off.

 Slaanesh-Devotee wrote:

Lightning Claws make it impossible to use assault grenades, although some modelling (Cough Grey Knight Terminator wrist weapons cough) has made this former truism less true. I would keep it though.

See that on his belt? On that snap-together mini from the starter box?

Doesn't say anywhere in lightning claw rules they can't use assault grenades. In fact, the games I've ran that chosen squad out of the DV box, the Lightning Claw guy now that he doesn't have a ranged weapon anymore is the one guy who throws a grenade in the shooting phase.

As for Tau, Warp Talons only aren't total murder against Riptides and Broadsides. They ignore armor of every other unit in that entire codex. They tear the crap out of any Crisis suit, or any of the HQs the codex can take. I mean, assuming the Warp Talons aren't all killed due to mass interceptor.

I seem to remember reading that Lightning claws blades could retract (wolverine-like) to allow the wearer to manipulate objects without shredding them.
Shrike has a bolt pistol ,despite his pair of lightning claws. Must be a modified one though to fit the power fist-sized fingers of the claws ...

ace101 wrote:I've always thought that WT would be more useful against tau and necrons, considering they have I2, all but the suit would most likely fail the test, making them much less threatening, and if they survive the BS1 countershooting, they'll shred Tau/Necrons.

They can tear the crap out of many things in cc, even MEQ types if you give them MoS. Because of their loadout they do this with relatively few models. There in lies their problem. With their LC's they are so expensive per model that getting them into CC is quite a challenge, even more so than other, larger, cc squads. Enter their blind rule; something to help them get into cc while suffering fewer casualties. Problem is, it just plain doesn't work. To use it, you're risking significant chance at mishap at a mere chance to blind them, and not a very good chance against most targets.

 B0B MaRlEy wrote:
I seem to remember reading that Lightning claws blades could retract (wolverine-like) to allow the wearer to manipulate objects without shredding them.
Shrike has a bolt pistol ,despite his pair of lightning claws. Must be a modified one though to fit the power fist-sized fingers of the claws ...

It works for Imperial style Lightning Claws like Shrike has due to their Wolverine retraction, but what about the Chaos claws? The TDA Lord and JP Finecast lord both use fingertip mounted claws (like Sabertooth, to use your Xmen reference), as do 3 of the 5 styles of claws in the WT kit. The 4th is directled mounted as part of the metalwork lightning effects on the gauntlet, the other is crystal-like growths from the flesh itself, so I doubt either could be retrated.

 Deadshot wrote:

 B0B MaRlEy wrote:
I seem to remember reading that Lightning claws blades could retract (wolverine-like) to allow the wearer to manipulate objects without shredding them.
Shrike has a bolt pistol ,despite his pair of lightning claws. Must be a modified one though to fit the power fist-sized fingers of the claws ...

It works for Imperial style Lightning Claws like Shrike has due to their Wolverine retraction, but what about the Chaos claws? The TDA Lord and JP Finecast lord both use fingertip mounted claws (like Sabertooth, to use your Xmen reference), as do 3 of the 5 styles of claws in the WT kit. The 4th is directled mounted as part of the metalwork lightning effects on the gauntlet, the other is crystal-like growths from the flesh itself, so I doubt either could be retrated.

If their flesh melded into those claws, would some kind of mutant appendageto actually throw the grenade be unthinkable? Chaos is already so far on the silly side that it can go that tiny bit further ...

No daemon model in the CSM codex has grenades, that is why the warp talons don't. Daemons are too derpy to use them.

 SRSFACE wrote:


See that on his belt? On that snap-together mini from the starter box?

Doesn't say anywhere in lightning claw rules they can't use assault grenades. In fact, the games I've ran that chosen squad out of the DV box, the Lightning Claw guy now that he doesn't have a ranged weapon anymore is the one guy who throws a grenade in the shooting phase.

Oh absolutely, you're right. I didn't mean that there was a rule against it, merely that Grenades were originally restricted from Lightning Claw models on the basis of fluff, and that has been changing recently. Notice I mentioned the Grey Knights can use them and Terminators were unable to for a very long time also.

I'm a traditionalist and prefer to follow the unwritten restriction myself, though I can see why everyone is clamoring for them.


It also goes to make exasperation with 40k, especially a vocal subset of the players, who seem to think every unit is terrible unless it ignores the leadership rules (Fearless), terrain rules (Move through Cover), combat rules (Frag Grenades or equivalent), Shooting rules (Ignores Cover) etc. I feel like some of the more interesting aspects of the game are found in those penalty rules.

I can't argue with you there, Devotee.

The fact there are so many units that make every last rule worthless is kind of dumb. Think how much better Warhammer would be if they removed ATSKNF. Stupidest rule in the whole game and singlehandedly, more than even the fact all shooting is so good right now, makes melee armies not worth taking. And it's only because ONE army has it.

That's why WHFB keeps looking so enticing to me. I remember years ago when I would play battles where I would actually tests my units leadership fairly often, with a variety of effects. Kept me on my toes, but nothing horrendous generally.

It'd be nice if Fear was actually a rule that came into affect more often in 40k for example.

But this is getting pretty offtrack! I'm thinking of proxying some Warp Talons in my next few games, see what happens.

I managed to make possessed work. I bet you can do the same with warp talons. But it's alwayz a handicap.