Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I see guard as really one of the best and most versatile armies in 40k if not the most, they literally have an answer for almost any threat at reasonable point costs. My question is what is the best all around list for guard. I want a list and accompanying tactics that aren't curtailed to fighting one type of army. No restrictions. Fortifications, forge world, ect... are all viable, though I would hope to keep the list a pure guard list if with in reason. Further more if you disagree, explain why you think guard can't field an all comers list.

Foot guard, with HW in the squads, some artilery and stormies will rock your world.

2k points is also where guard special characters shine, keep that in mind.

2000 points is where you can really spam flyers.

Vultures, Vendettas, and Valks with Vets, man. (The Quad-V)

It's butter.

Guard is one of those armies that despite the slight nerf to vehicles just got better.

Both posters above are correct, however there are tons of solid options.

I'm leaning towards lots of chimeras carrying standard platoon squads, with a couple of Vendettas also carrying PISs or flamer vets.

In objective games, keep the PISs in chimeras, firing their autocannons at everything that moves, that plus the multi laser on the chimera will take down most enemy infantry/light vehicles with concentrated fire. Then you can just scoot up/grav chute the vendetta borne PISs on objectives late game.

In KP games you just blob the PIS's together, sit back and blast away, using chimeras to block fire lanes against the enemy.

Back all this up with some ordinance batteries/hellhounds/manticores and you will have a very solid all comers list.

Vultures are amazing. Leman Russes from the Armored Battlegroup list can be good allies in an all-guard list. Sabre guns offer unparalleled area defense from both tanks and aircraft. Carriage artillery offer a cheap and durable way to get barrage large blasts if needed.

These units are wonderful.

Why platoons over vets?

The most important difference is that 2000 points is bigger.

No, that's not just stating the obvious. In a 500 point game you can have an infantry squad and a tank and the opposing 500 points probably doesn't have enough focused firepower to just wipe both of them off the table in one turn. Target saturation just isn't as big of an issue since even a single unit takes time to wear down. On the other hand, compare this to a 2000 point list that has lots of infantry and a single tank: that single tank is going to die in your opponent's first shooting phase since there's nothing else for hundreds of points of dedicated anti-tank units to target. Target saturation now becomes a very important issue, one of a unit isn't good enough, you need lots of them to ensure that at least one survives to do the job. Likewise on the other side, one counter to an opposing threat is just going to die before it can do the job, and two have no chance of keeping up with the sheer number of targets. So you need more. For example, the lone aegis line and quad gun that might be sufficient AA in a 500 point game is laughably inadequate in a 2000 point game and you'd better bring several more AA units.

So, the lesson here? Figure out what you do best, and bring lots of it. Like Vendettas (and you should)? Bring six of them. Like tanks? Six Leman Russes. Veterans in Chimeras? Don't even think about a platoon. Like infantry instead? Drown the enemy in bodies and don't even think about anything with AV 12. In short, define your list by the word "spam".

Best list for guard are either mech or foot guard(gunline seems best for foot guard rather than power blobs running up). As noted above spamming is why these lists are good.

If you go foot guard you spam platoons of infantry with either vendettas or leman russ/barrage support, usually with an aegis.

Mech guard spams veterans with x3 melta or x3 plasma in chimeras that are generally also backed vendettas or leman russ/barrage support.

Usually if you go foot guard you have the problem of being stuck in your deployment as it becomes hard to foot slodge across the board to grab objectives. I used storm troopers to deepstrike and get line breaker as well as try to get slay the warlord but Im experimenting with space wolves and their psyker(rune priest) can really buff a gunline with prescience and if you take 2 grey hunter squads in pods you get more survivable troops that are better than stormies and can also score enemy objectives, although that is going against a pure guard list.

With mech guard since everything is mobile in chimeras it is a little bit easier to speed across the board to try to snatch objectives.

Vendettas are about your best anti air option as well as great for anti tanks as well. The vendetta also has a transport capacity where it can also drop troops off late to grab objectives. With it also only being 130pts its arguably the best flier in the game.

Run 6 Leman Russ squads. You don't need all 3 vehicles in each one, but try to max out on tanks.

Not saying this is the optimal list rules-wise, but no one really prepares for an all-mech list in 6th edition. You are going to run up against a lot of armies that are unprepared and will go away quietly against the big guns.

One guy in my FLGS plays a guard list doing exactly this, I have tried fighting him with an optimized Chaos list to little effect. The tanks are just too much.

 techsoldaten wrote:
Run 6 Leman Russ squads. You don't need all 3 vehicles in each one, but try to max out on tanks.

Not saying this is the optimal list rules-wise, but no one really prepares for an all-mech list in 6th edition. You are going to run up against a lot of armies that are unprepared and will go away quietly against the big guns.

One guy in my FLGS plays a guard list doing exactly this, I have tried fighting him with an optimized Chaos list to little effect. The tanks are just too much.

I've tried this but I always get torn apart in assault against my opponent when he assault, and I usually play against chaos marines or daemons. What leman russ varients does he run? and what does he use for his troops, I would assume vets in chimeras?

How would a foot list with lots of Basilisk's and a couple of vendetta's hold up ?

Well lets say for now a general consensus at 2000 points is that Vendettas are a must.
I believe the optimal number, if you can achieve it, is 6 in groups of two going off from what I’ve seen in other threads.

Coupled by some heavy armor maybe 3 Leman Russ, and IPS or Vets in chimeras.

So from the above reasoning a hypothetical 2000 pts. all comers IG list would look something like this:

--

HQ

Company Command Squad - 140
Astropath
Chimera – Hull Heavy Flamer

Troops
Veteran Squad -170
X3 Plasma
Chimera – Hull Heavy Flamer

Veteran Squad -170
X3 Plasma
Chimera – Hull Heavy Flamer

Veteran Squad -155
X3 Melta
Chimera – Hull Heavy Flamer

Veteran Squad -155
X3 Melta
Chimera – Hull Heavy Flamer

Heavy

Leman Russ – 150

Leman Russ – 150

Leman Russ Executioner - 195

Fast Attack

130
Vendetta

260
Vendetta
Vendetta

260
Vendetta
Vendetta

Fortification

Aegis Defense Line - 70
-comms relay

Comments:

This list is exactly 2000 points, there is nothing useless here and everything has synergy. The comms relay and ccs work in tandem to bring out the Vendettas faster. The CSS while devoid of special weapons is kept behind the Aegis to relay orders if need be, but more importantly to keep the astropath alive. The 4 Vet squads have an even distribution of melta and plasma to deal with most threats, while the chimera’s offer mobility and light anti horde with HHF and multilasers. The Leman russ are solid av14 pie plate throwers and the executioner is a hard hitting fire magnet that while dangerous in its own right offers a distraction for your objective holders to proceed unimpeded. The vendettas are at a manageable 5 for ease of travel on the board giving unparalleled fire power and protection for the points, while the astropath and comms relay both make sure they all have a high percentage of arriving on turn 2. All in all from the feedback this generally appears to be the most balanced list I can come up with, that does not have really glaring flaw nor av under 12.

EDIT: DURR I'M AN IDIOT AND CAN'T READ.

Anyways. Interesting idea. Still wondering as to why you went with an executioner instead of giving your CCS a few plasma guns though. Is your goal just to hide them away somewhere?

I think Mr. Spartan is on the money. The IG has two of the best vehicles in the game: Vendetta and Chimera. Use them early, use them often.

My 2K BA army has basically no answer for the above list. I would be forced to kill all the troops and have some of mine survive. I'm not betting on my BA list.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
EDIT: DURR I'M AN IDIOT AND CAN'T READ.

Anyways. Interesting idea. Still wondering as to why you went with an executioner instead of giving your CCS a few plasma guns though. Is your goal just to hide them away somewhere?

Actually my first draft of the list had the ccs with 3 plasma and no Executioner, but I rationalized that half the time the ccs wouldn’t even be in range to do anything with them, let alone I have to keep the ccs safe because of the astropath. Executioner delivers just as much plasma while being av14 and 10x more intimidating.

It's the 5 vendetta that really make this list foul. Everything else is.... manageable.

 Spartan089 wrote:

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
EDIT: DURR I'M AN IDIOT AND CAN'T READ.

Anyways. Interesting idea. Still wondering as to why you went with an executioner instead of giving your CCS a few plasma guns though. Is your goal just to hide them away somewhere?

Actually my first draft of the list had the ccs with 3 plasma and no Executioner, but I rationalized that half the time the ccs wouldn’t even be in range to do anything with them, let alone I have to keep the ccs safe because of the astropath. Executioner delivers just as much plasma while being av14 and 10x more intimidating.

That's what I figured, but figured I would ask anyways.

That's still a pretty mean list though. I know I wouldn't want to fight it.

Martel732 wrote:
It's the 5 vendetta that really make this list foul. Everything else is.... manageable.

Granted thats right, but I always want my bottom line to be "managble" and not terrible. You're only good as your weakest link applies to 40k as well. having no real weak links for your opponent to pick out is part of making an all comers list. If I were to nitpick I'd say one of the only things that concerns me is deep striking units that can get close to my tanks or ccs.

Good thing for your list that deep strike still sucks in 6th, imho.

No, this list can do a lot of damage even without the vendettas, but is a manageable amount of models. But when those vendettas show up, all enemy troop transports are gone and they are stuck foot slogging. That's where the LR tanks just own face. Meqs with FNP even melt like butter.

Only thing that would scare me would be the screamer/flamer daemon army, but to be honest I think that army scares just about anybody

Screamer/flamer are not that efficient vs metal bawkses. Plus, the look on daemon players faces is epic when you shoot their screamers with template weapons.

I would say that the monstrous flyers are more fearsome, but meet my five vendettas! Fragged!

Well its good we are trying to poke holes in it as thats whats part of making it work. Now lets start to develop tactics for common senarios or missions types.

Edit: Another army that worries me is Necrons at this point level as they can bring 9 flyiers vs my 5. This why I also considered putting master of the fleet as well, but his 30 points are wasted if the enemy does not reserve.

The best strategy at 2000 points?
Do what I do.

Ally with gray Knights, set up a gun line with vets and tanks, and proceed to spam the enemy with deep strikes.

 797th Red Tigers wrote:
The best strategy at 2000 points?
Do what I do.

Ally with gray Knights, set up a gun line with vets and tanks, and proceed to spam the enemy with deep strikes.

If you have specific list in mind please feel free to post it so that we can compare and critique what we have so far.

 Spartan089 wrote:
Well lets say for now a general consensus at 2000 points is that Vendettas are a must.
I believe the optimal number, if you can achieve it, is 6 in groups of two going off from what I’ve seen in other threads.

Coupled by some heavy armor maybe 3 Leman Russ, and IPS or Vets in chimeras.

So from the above reasoning a hypothetical 2000 pts. all comers IG list would look something like this:

--

HQ

Company Command Squad - 140
Astropath
Chimera – Hull Heavy Flamer

Troops
Veteran Squad -170
X3 Plasma
Chimera – Hull Heavy Flamer

Veteran Squad -170
X3 Plasma
Chimera – Hull Heavy Flamer

Veteran Squad -155
X3 Melta
Chimera – Hull Heavy Flamer

Veteran Squad -155
X3 Melta
Chimera – Hull Heavy Flamer

Heavy

Leman Russ – 150

Leman Russ – 150

Leman Russ Executioner - 195

Fast Attack

130
Vendetta

260
Vendetta
Vendetta

260
Vendetta
Vendetta

Fortification

Aegis Defense Line - 70
-comms relay

Comments:

This list is exactly 2000 points, there is nothing useless here and everything has synergy. The comms relay and ccs work in tandem to bring out the Vendettas faster. The CSS while devoid of special weapons is kept behind the Aegis to relay orders if need be, but more importantly to keep the astropath alive. The 4 Vet squads have an even distribution of melta and plasma to deal with most threats, while the chimera’s offer mobility and light anti horde with HHF and multilasers. The Leman russ are solid av14 pie plate throwers and the executioner is a hard hitting fire magnet that while dangerous in its own right offers a distraction for your objective holders to proceed unimpeded. The vendettas are at a manageable 5 for ease of travel on the board giving unparalleled fire power and protection for the points, while the astropath and comms relay both make sure they all have a high percentage of arriving on turn 2. All in all from the feedback this generally appears to be the most balanced list I can come up with, that does not have really glaring flaw nor av under 12.

Executioner is 190 pts

Thanks, didnt notice, though not sure what 5 points will net me in this list.

Searchlights?

 TheCaptain wrote:
2000 points is where you can really spam flyers.

Vultures, Vendettas, and Valks with Vets, man. (The Quad-V)

It's butter.

Also considering your impressive W/L would you care to post your list and tactics?

 Spartan089 wrote:

 797th Red Tigers wrote:
The best strategy at 2000 points?
Do what I do.

Ally with gray Knights, set up a gun line with vets and tanks, and proceed to spam the enemy with deep strikes.

If you have specific list in mind please feel free to post it so that we can compare and critique what we have so far.

Bewm.

Sorry, but just throwing random units together doesn't make a good list.

PS: if you list-tailor anti-horde I'm bringing my pure mech list and laughing you as I table you. Hopefully this happens to you and you learn why list tailoring is bad.

Veteran Squad 1
100 points with the following upgrades:
Vox-Caster, 3 Grenade Launchers, Heavy Bolter

Veteran Squad 2
90 points with the following upgrades:
Vox-Caster, 3 Flamers

Veteran Squad 3
100 points with the following upgrades:
Vox-Caster, 3 Grenade Launchers, Heavy Bolter

Dear god no. NEVER use grenade launchers and flamers on veterans, you're throwing away everything that makes them good. And since you have no transports for them they're just going to die uselessly.

Company Command Squad
80 points with the following upgrades:
Regimental Standard, Vox-Caster, Heavy Bolter

No. If you want a static orders-giver it's a LC and standard.

Leeman Russ Squadron
590 points with the following upgrades:
2 Leeman Russ Battle Tanks, Leeman Russ Punisher, 3 Heavy Bolters, Knight Commander Pask(Punisher)

Needs to be two separate units. Since you have empty heavy support slots you should never be taking squadrons.

Inquisitorial Henchmen Warband
140 points with the following upgrades:
4 Mystics, 4 Warrior Acolytes(Plasma Gun, Boltgun, Power Armor)

No. Not only is it illegal (you can't take four plasma guns), it's also pointless. Veterans carry plasma better (higher BS and scoring), and having duplicate mystics is just a waste of points.