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I am conflicted in the matter of Sister heavy support. What do people think are the priority units compared to eachother? Pentinent Engines seem scary for every unt and the kitchen sink, Exorcist are the only missile they get and pretty near the only of two for ranged support, and the retributors make up the other option of long range support that can pack a whallop with Heavy bolters. But how do they weigh against their other colleagues?

I really like the load out of 4x retributors and 2x Exorcists. That is enough heavy firepower to demech units and the rets provide nice utility.

It seems the most common is either 3x exorcists or 2x exorcists with a unit of heavy bolter rets. I run a squad of 3x penitent engines but its amazing how much fire they draw. They ahve that "oh crap, kill that quick!" factor on the table but then they actually die. So they aren't taking too much fire away from the rest of your army.

2x exorcists and a unit of penitents works really well. Or 2x Rets + Penitents. I would never take more than 1 unit of them however.

I run one unit of each of each, but for the average player I would say 2 Exorcists and one unit of Rets. The Rets need faith to work against some armies, and you can only rely on one faith. Exorcists are pretty easy point and shoot guys, if a bit unreliable.

Penitents take some work and a plan. Pair them with other scary units that are pushing up the board and they can do pretty well in a squadron, but if you just run them up the board alone they die fast. Before flyers you could scare the pants off of folks by running 9 of them, but the first flyer spam army you run across will have you rethinking that build in a hurry.

Ive been running with 2 Exorcists & 9 sister Rets with 4 Heavy Bolters, used it at a number of tournaments and its worked well for me.

The exorcists can be unreliable but when they are reliable they are amazing and your only really long range antitank.

The Rets have been good, specially agaisnt horde and more so if they get ther act of faith off.

I only used PE in 5th and i didnt use them again, they are defo better in 6th but really a bullet magnet. I they get in flamer and combat range they are horrible though.

The new grenade rules are the bane of PE's - combined with Hull Points they just get eaten up in CC.

2 exorcists, rets and a bastion is really the best load out.

 calypso2ts wrote:
The new grenade rules are the bane of PE's - combined with Hull Points they just get eaten up in CC.

This is so true. Poor PE's only being I3 often results in their death-by-grenade before they can even strike.

2 exorcists are just too good for how much you spend on them, almost mandatory in nearly all types of lists. Then, depending on how the rest of your list is constructed either a 3rd exorcist, a squad of Heavy Bolter Rets, or (slightly less efficient) a squad of heavy flamer rets in a rhino.

I've had a lot of success with using a ADL and putting Kyrinov on the gun with the ladies. Gives them a free simiulacrum and boost to their rending roll, as well as making all the guardswomen behind my ADL fearless.

quiestdeus wrote:

 calypso2ts wrote:
The new grenade rules are the bane of PE's - combined with Hull Points they just get eaten up in CC.

This is so true. Poor PE's only being I3 often results in their death-by-grenade before they can even strike.

I have never had PE lose to a unit fighting back with grenades. Against 10 marines you are looking at roughly one glance and one pen, which might bring down a single wounded PE... But PE should always be in a squad, and should almost never hit a full squad with 2-6 heavy flamer templates at their disposal. I'm sure sooner or later krak grenades will take out a few PE in assault, but often is a serious overstatement.

If you are up against a horde with kraks you could certainly be in trouble, but most hordes hit at I3 or lower, and disappear to heavy flamers long before assault becomes a concern. AT fire worries PE, assault is almost always happy fun times - assuming the flames left anything to assault (actually more rare than you might think).

The engines are pretty much a "high-risk-high-reward" unit, they are easy to remove, but if they ever reach your lines god help you.

I think they are actually designed more for an all-out-assault SOB list where you send in so many CC HRHR units that its pretty much assured some will make it, but unfortunately SOB cant pull it off very well.

If I had the models, I'd run 9 PE, 30 repentia and dual conclaves. It'd be hilarious.

I've tried that.. sadly it doesn't work quite as well as you'd think

Well I had 9 engines, 20 repentia and dual conclaves with Uriah/Kyrinov.

Oh I didn't think it would work, just be hilarious.

So what I am thinking about, which is what I put into my first SOB list, was 2 squads of rets (which recently got "upgraded" to heavybolters) and 3 pentinent engines. The assault force to charge up along my rhinos and the anti armour to open up whatever the PEs need to get into.

Do pentinents form squadrons when you buy more than one? Because it does not say they go into a squadron, but that they just get more of them. Also the unit composiition says that it is one, so how the heck an you get a squadron if you are only allowed 1 in a unit? My translation is more of a wish, but that buying more lets you take them as up to 3 as their own units. (9 seperate walkers running up the field could be scary)

Yes, they do.

In the FAQ they fixed that.

My usual loadout for 1999 (aka 2k with single force org) is 2 Exorcists and a squad of heavy bolter rets. I also spring for a few extras for the Rets, namely a Simulacrum to more reliably get the Rending off, and a stormbolter for the Superior, just to up the number of potential rends the squad can put out.

I have to say this edition SoB is my favorite army.

I run 3 Exorcists in my list 2 SoB and 2 allied guard inf squads lead by Saint and a CCS.

If an Exorsist cant kill it a guard Hvy Weapon can. Or a Sister with a melta/Flamer.

If the Bation fits, points-wise, having Retributors in one is pretty strong. I find it hard to lobby against the Exorcist though. Tough hull, powerful weapon, reasonable price and a 6+ save. Seems to be worth it in my games.

I've been using the bastion in place of the ADL for a while now and really the only problem is Drop Pods with melta blowing it up turn 1. I usually don't have enough models to ring it completely with a 6" deep wall of bodies.

That and me failing leadership tests for the squad on top.

 BoomWolf wrote:
The engines are pretty much a "high-risk-high-reward" unit, they are easy to remove, but if they ever reach your lines god help you.

I think they are actually designed more for an all-out-assault SOB list where you send in so many CC HRHR units that its pretty much assured some will make it, but unfortunately SOB cant pull it off very well.

My initial lists was essentially that, all assault - 9 PE, 20 repentia, dual conclaves (and arco-flagellants before that) and scouting Dominions all rushing up in AV 11. In the end, I found I needed more shooting to reliably advance down the field, and the ensure nothing worked it's way back to my squishy backfield objective holders. The ability to pop AT or transports at range allows you to keep PE and the like alive longer, and removes the maneuverability that allows the enemy to just avoid them.

Nowdays I run a hard core of backfield shooting that can take out high threat enemy shooters and transports, and a tough wedge of forward assault/melta units to control the midfield and push into the back. Ignoring either part of the army can lose my foe the game, and if they split their shots and fail to cripple either one, it can run over them. Rhino are useless for assault now, so I just run Repentia up behind Seraphim for cover or 3+ saves.

Though if I am feeling sassy in a really high point game, I'll still drop down 9 PE, 20 Repentia, 20 Seraphim and a couple conclaves. I use my Arco's as Death Cultists these days. If it weren't for flyers, I could probably get it to work for regular play, even.

I love using PE when I can. It's more of a fun list than competitive for me. Repentia are my favorite fun unit. I know of people using both to success. Those exorcist are hard to give up a heavy slot since they are our only missles and farthest range.

 Hollowman wrote:

quiestdeus wrote:

 calypso2ts wrote:
The new grenade rules are the bane of PE's - combined with Hull Points they just get eaten up in CC.

This is so true. Poor PE's only being I3 often results in their death-by-grenade before they can even strike.

I have never had PE lose to a unit fighting back with grenades. Against 10 marines you are looking at roughly one glance and one pen, which might bring down a single wounded PE... But PE should always be in a squad, and should almost never hit a full squad with 2-6 heavy flamer templates at their disposal. I'm sure sooner or later krak grenades will take out a few PE in assault, but often is a serious overstatement.

If you are up against a horde with kraks you could certainly be in trouble, but most hordes hit at I3 or lower, and disappear to heavy flamers long before assault becomes a concern. AT fire worries PE, assault is almost always happy fun times - assuming the flames left anything to assault (actually more rare than you might think).

One glance and one pen is far more than ever reliably happened before. Instead of fearlessly multi-assaulting 2 squads of tactical marines now it is a huge liability to do so. Not only do I lose 6 attacks from the multi-assault, but taking 20 grenade hits back is actually scary. I could just flame and charge one, but now I've spent those points over-killing one unit and am left hanging in the breeze. Even assuming I do not get shot at by anything because the rest of my army has tied up my opponent's force, I still have those 10 marines I did not charge who can either shoot me, or charge me to deny *my* charge next turn (wall of death makes this slightly silly).

I can also happily retort that I rarely made it to combat with a full squad of PEs against anyone who has played against them before. Sure, they can be a nice "Surprise!" unit against someone who under-estimates them, but they are only efficient at killing things we are already efficient at killing. Throwing 255 points at a rhino is a waste, and what other tank layout is possibly going to allow walkers with almost 0 shooting to get close to it without blowing them up? Sure, they can decimate guardblobs with the flamers and extra attacks but, really, what cannot? Seraphim do the job just as well for fewer points with more flexibility AND more survivability. Want a surgical AT tool? Dominions are far better than PEs. I've tried outflanking PEs with Creed, running 9 of them, and a slew of other combinations but against the truly competitive lists out there, sadly PEs are a liability. Open-topped AV11 walkers are just not that good, not at 85 points a pop when we have Exorcists and Retributors competing for the slot.

Saying a close-combat Sisters army would do well except for fliers is silly - there are fliers, and you have to consider playing against them. Vendetta and Scythe spam lists are still everywhere. I'm sure the new daemon lists would LOVE to see you tie-up so many points in such easily killed units, not to mention all of the plasma-spam lists which people are trying to test to prepare for DA. I cannot even say I like seeing 'Nids across the table when fielding PEs anymore because of the new psychic powers - Objuration Mechanicum utterly laughs in the face of PEs thanks to the squadron rule we can try to abuse to help under other circumstances.

To stay on topic for the OP, PEs certainly have potential for fun lists, but any seriously competitive list would be better suited to taking Exorcists, and/or a Bastion with heavy bolter Retributors.

Well yes there are flyers, which is why I don't play an all out assault army anymore. What PE offer is not something any other Sister unit does though. Seraphim are closest, but Seraphim are less survivable (not sure how you got the idea they were otherwise), can't really accomplish anything in assault, can't hit hard units and don't draw AT fire. In exchange, they are faster. If PE are hitting tanks, something has gone wrong with your plan. PE are for drawing fire from your tanks, removing deathstars, clogging lines of advance and making hordes disappear. If that's not going to work, use them as a countercharge unit to defend backfield objectives (especially if you can put them behind a bastion).You have to use and place them very differently each battle, and have a plan for them. Their advantage is that they are dynamic, interacting with and changing the enemy turn in ways a static backfield shooter cannot.

How you use them varies a lot with the enemy list, enemy set up, and especially your own list. They serve me well, either distracting people from my "deathstar" unit or being ignored in favor of the same - all of which works towards my ultimate goal of keeping my backfield unmolested and happy. There is a distinct advantage in choosing where the fight is set, even if the PE do nothing but keep the battle and fire focused in the midfield.