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http://www.frontlinegaming.org/2012/12/30/40k-video-bat-rep-hot-eldar-on-eldar-action/

Grant gets back from boot camp and thinks he can call out Frankie in this 1750pt BAO Practice game! Who will win: Seercouncil Eldar or the infamous Harliestar?

Enjoy!

Reece

Nice game, seems the seer council is still not very good (I stand by they werent good in 5th, I have a large 8 man unit of them, and they were not that great). Having no power weapons and low attacks really hurts seer council, and the reduction to damage on vehicles is a major blow as well.

Im a little behind in coming into 6th edition now, but what makes fuegen so good now? Because he definitely was not good in 5th.

How was Baron engaged to accept the challenge? It looked like he was hanging pretty far back. Accepting with baron was also a pretty needless risk, sure he shouldn't fail often but he's in a unit full of warlocks to eat challenges from scary people. I'm also not sure about why he took on the harlie-star head on, they're all around better than the seer council in CC. I think splitting from baron and boosting to the opposite side of frankie's deployment zone from where the harlie-star deployed and then flaming/cutting through the squishy bits of frankie's army would've been a better move. The harlie-star would've had to stick in the back field since the council can walk through pretty much everything else, and probably wouldn't have time to reach far objectives/troops.

Bugs_N_Orks wrote:
How was Baron engaged to accept the challenge? It looked like he was hanging pretty far back. Accepting with baron was also a pretty needless risk, sure he shouldn't fail often but he's in a unit full of warlocks to eat challenges from scary people. I'm also not sure about why he took on the harlie-star head on, they're all around better than the seer council in CC. I think splitting from baron and boosting to the opposite side of frankie's deployment zone from where the harlie-star deployed and then flaming/cutting through the squishy bits of frankie's army would've been a better move. The harlie-star would've had to stick in the back field since the council can walk through pretty much everything else, and probably wouldn't have time to reach far objectives/troops.

I agree, I'm not sure why he engaged the harliestar so early. I would have thought with destructor his plan would have been to flank and bake the harlequins, and then charge the remaining dudes, or just keep shooting to finish them off. Template weapons are the bane of the harliestar.

Can warlocks use destructor on Overwatch?

 Mafty wrote:
Nice game, seems the seer council is still not very good (I stand by they werent good in 5th, I have a large 8 man unit of them, and they were not that great). Having no power weapons and low attacks really hurts seer council, and the reduction to damage on vehicles is a major blow as well.

Im a little behind in coming into 6th edition now, but what makes fuegen so good now? Because he definitely was not good in 5th.

Grant just had an off-game. Don't be fooled by his performance this game. If not for the dice (i.e. failing 2 saves with the Baron), I think Grant could have taken this game. They both were resilient. Harlies had better offense, but the seer council just had stupid-good mobility. His deathstar is just ridiculous with Fortune and Invisibility.

The Baron addresses perhaps one of the biggest problems of the seer council - their lack of offense in assault - by letting them leave the combats that they don't want to be in.

Bugs_N_Orks wrote:
How was Baron engaged to accept the challenge? It looked like he was hanging pretty far back. Accepting with baron was also a pretty needless risk, sure he shouldn't fail often but he's in a unit full of warlocks to eat challenges from scary people. I'm also not sure about why he took on the harlie-star head on, they're all around better than the seer council in CC. I think splitting from baron and boosting to the opposite side of frankie's deployment zone from where the harlie-star deployed and then flaming/cutting through the squishy bits of frankie's army would've been a better move. The harlie-star would've had to stick in the back field since the council can walk through pretty much everything else, and probably wouldn't have time to reach far objectives/troops.

Invisibility makes the harliestar WS1. It was a good move. Take the fight to the enemy in his home turf. Therefore, only his objectives and troops are really threatened. Yours are safe. Against the seer council, you need a way to threaten his troops as the council can't be at 2 places at the same time.

 whitedragon wrote:
I agree, I'm not sure why he engaged the harliestar so early. I would have thought with destructor his plan would have been to flank and bake the harlequins, and then charge the remaining dudes, or just keep shooting to finish them off. Template weapons are the bane of the harliestar.

Can warlocks use destructor on Overwatch?

Because the Baron was so "slow", he probably wouldn't have really been able to bring more 2-3 destructors into range by Turn 2, which probably would have just been soaked up by a 2+ re-rollable character. But by that time, he is already getting assaulted. His plan probably would have been to Hit&Run out of assault and then next turn, get in better position to BBQ those harlies. Too bad the Baron failed to survive and that was why they lost. The harliestar could leave combat but the seer council couldn't.

I believe the warlocks can Overwatch with destructor.

 whitedragon wrote:
Can warlocks use destructor on Overwatch?

Eldar FAQ page 3 wrote:Q: Can you use a Warlock's Destructor power when resolving
Overwatch? (p28)
A: No.

Accepting with Baron is def what cost him this game (the council would have run through most of the rest of the army if they kept HnR), but I still see no point in charging the harlies. Even at WS1 the harlies are tougher (thanks to fuegan) still pretty good at CC (thanks to PE from vect) and fearless, and they can HnR out so you won't even stay locked and they gain extra movement. Unless they were literally the only unit to charge I just don't see the value in it as CC is where the council is weakest.

Bugs_N_Orks wrote:
Accepting with Baron is def what cost him this game (the council would have run through most of the rest of the army if they kept HnR), but I still see no point in charging the harlies. Even at WS1 the harlies are tougher (thanks to fuegan) still pretty good at CC (thanks to PE from vect) and fearless, and they can HnR out so you won't even stay locked and they gain extra movement. Unless they were literally the only unit to charge I just don't see the value in it as CC is where the council is weakest.

but the council isnt good at killing tanks now either. A sub-par unit got worse. They cant kill much in CC (no power weapons), and they cant reliably kill tanks now in CC (no more S9)

 Mafty wrote:
but the council isnt good at killing tanks now either. A sub-par unit got worse. They cant kill much in CC (no power weapons), and they cant reliably kill tanks now in CC (no more S9)

They really shouldn't break a sweat taking down 2HP AV10 warwalkers (destructors, throw spears, S3 Armorbane). Not quite as good as they were before but still pretty decent. The Destructors are how they should be taking down most infantry, but given that they can handle any of the other units on the board (besides the harlies) in CC there's no real downside to charging, even just to lock them up for the next shooting phase. All I was saying is that since the harlies are pretty dangerous in CC, very tough to hurt in CC, and can't be locked up reliably, I don't see the point in handing them an extra round of CC and a free 3D6" move. All that's pretty minor in comparison to needlessly risking Baron when he's so vital to your game plan and have 10 warlocks on hand to fall on scary characters like fuegan/vect though. (or just refuse)

Great report! Interesting to see a different matchup against Frankie's infamous Harliestar. I would also agree that the aggressiveness in wanting to assault the Harliestar was a mistake and that they should've waited till they were weakened. I know that if I were to go against Frankie's list I would take out the walkers first then pick off the Harliestar for as long as I could before they reach assault.

Yeah, you never, ever assault the Harliestar unless you can kill it. Almost nothing in the game can kill it in assault so you should almost never assault it.

You contain it if possible, charge block it, move away from it, shoot it with weapons that can actually hurt it, etc.

The unit is stupid broken, honestly, but until the new Eldar book comes out next year, we have to learn to play around it.

 Reecius wrote:

The unit is stupid broken, honestly, but until the new Eldar book comes out next year, we have to learn to play around it.

And yet, it loses more than it wins in battle reports you make.

I didn't say it was unbeatable, there are a lot of armies that can beat it with smart play. I was just saying that the unit itself is broken. An entire deathstar with a rerollable 2+ save is just flat-out lame, and I highly doubt the game designers intended for that to be the case.