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Oh Champions could get cray cray *fast*.
We had the number crunchers too (I was one of them) but we toned it down for real play.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

 aosol wrote:
The new manager at a local gaming shop in my area is trying to push Battle Tech. His dark nostalgia has sickened most of the local crowd.

Battletech is right next to Champions and Starfleet Battles on my list of games that should be fun but just... aren't.

I find that Battletech is a good candidate for house rules. I tend to go with somewhat more forgiving "to hit" modifiers. With the regular rules its very easy to make a mech too hard to hit, and it can really drag out a game if people game the modifier system.


Battletech was my introduction to mini gaming, and even for all its flaws it still holds a sacred place.


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 paulson games wrote:
1st ed Battletech is what started me into gaming. It's fun but it's dated compared to most newer games and can run slow as hell sometimes. There's tons of material and books and the larger universe is pretty awesome.

I'd dropped out of the game in the mid 90's and got interested in it again when they released the 25th aniversary box. They've expanded a lot of the tech and weaponry in the game which I'm just not a fan of. I think it gets overly complicated and cumbersome and gets in the way of robot stompy action.

IMO the best thing you can do is pick up a 2nd ed box set (or the citytech boxed set) and use those to start with as that's the game in it's most basic and entertaining form. Then add in the 3050 level tech if you like it and work from the blue compendiium whcih you can get nice and cheap off amazon or ebay. The blue compendium is organized, compact and so much easier to use, the newer books by catalyst are horribly organized and take up 3 books to do what the old compendiums do in 1. (plus they are frikkin exspensive)

This sums it up well. The newer tech and Clan stuff may sound fun, but the game is best in its older versions.


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 Kilkrazy wrote:
All my models are original "Unseens".

If you want to play it in big scale, Hobby Link Japan have a lot of the "Unseens" in 1/100 or 1/72 scale model kits.

I started Battletech in 1994, and it was all unseens. I had over 120 mechs, including many conversions. When I met my wife and we had our first kid I thought I was done gaming, so I gave it all away. A few years later I got back into gaming...

For those that that are long time vets of Battletech, what is the dedicated community like online? is there any good forums with a decent amount of traffic?

I keep peeking in on lordsofthebattlefield.com but was wondering if there was anywhere else.

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:
Never mind the VAST range of the game through it's own history. The sheer number of units available to factions stretched out over numerous historical eras of fictional history leads to a major hurtle for entry into the game.

Yeah, I found that frustrating myself. Someone linked me to a site once that had a huge PDF that listed everything available to everyone in every time period, but I can't remember where it is. And I'm pretty sure it was fan-made, too.

I thought I would just buy mechs I liked the look of and paint them up however, but I'd rather keep it "canonical", lol.

 Sidstyler wrote:

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:
Never mind the VAST range of the game through it's own history. The sheer number of units available to factions stretched out over numerous historical eras of fictional history leads to a major hurtle for entry into the game.

Yeah, I found that frustrating myself. Someone linked me to a site once that had a huge PDF that listed everything available to everyone in every time period, but I can't remember where it is. And I'm pretty sure it was fan-made, too.

I thought I would just buy mechs I liked the look of and paint them up however, but I'd rather keep it "canonical", lol.

My brother writes for the current TROs. Ill see if he can get me a list. PM me tomorrow to remind me.

Mecha_buddha wrote:
For those that that are long time vets of Battletech, what is the dedicated community like online? is there any good forums with a decent amount of traffic?

I keep peeking in on lordsofthebattlefield.com but was wondering if there was anywhere else.

http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php

116,000+ threads in general discussion alone

 Sidstyler wrote:

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:
Never mind the VAST range of the game through it's own history. The sheer number of units available to factions stretched out over numerous historical eras of fictional history leads to a major hurtle for entry into the game.

Yeah, I found that frustrating myself. Someone linked me to a site once that had a huge PDF that listed everything available to everyone in every time period, but I can't remember where it is. And I'm pretty sure it was fan-made, too.

I thought I would just buy mechs I liked the look of and paint them up however, but I'd rather keep it "canonical", lol.

http://www.masterunitlist.info/ has what you're looking for.

I love Battletech, and I even played with skunkworks battlemech designer for a while even when I wasn't playing because the balance between power and resources was very fun for me.

So many mechs that the design team put out had 'flavor' that didn't quite justify why the AC/5 was such an overweight weapon, and the larger bore cannons being shorter range (what the?) were the only real negatives for the game. An updated version would be awesome, but their decision to keep everything backwards compatible makes something like an update impossible.

I love Battletech and it is my main game atm. Finding other players can be a pain sometimes, but I think its popularity is on the upswing . Definitley check out the BT forums and you may find other players in your area

Lords of the Battlefield is one of the best BT forums, the MODS are good and allow actual conversation to take place. (www.lordsofthebattlefield.com)

The offical BT forum (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php) is governed by exceedingly anal and oppressive MODS that constantly lock and deleate threads. It makes it very hard to have any practical discussion on there. Discussion of the older models is pretty much banned although they pretend it's allowed provide it's strictly within their 11 point posting code, but even when it's within those rules they deleate threads based on a lot of personal bias. The MODS on there are incredibly rude and carry massive chips on their shoulders so I wouldn' bother with the CG forums.

I'd say they are Nazi's but that might make them seem tollerant.


It's kinda sad because Battletech has so much potential to be good if they'd update and streamline their system a bit. The thing that keeps them afloat is a great background of their setting and player run communities like LOTB. However the Admins & Mods of the CG forum are so negative and hateful that it makes me want to quit the game and melt down all my miniatures. Fortunately I retain my positive outlook towards battletech by not using their forum.

Battletech is an interesting sort of relic game, it's something that you can sit down with a group of friends and play around the dining table and if you're lucky play at a game store. It's not a hot property like it was back in the day but still manages to keep putting out new models and books. It's kinda like how some players still play red box D&D or AD&D. The system is a bit dated but it's still golden for those who grew up playing it. You can have long gaps in between playing games (of years) and come back to it and it's like riding a bike and a very familiar one at that.

Despite my fondness of the original setting I would love if they did a complete overhaul of the system and use the modern designs from MWOnline. I'd love nothing more than if they simply remade/revised the visuals of the 3025 setting and used that as a whole reboot of batltech and trimmed out all the extra junk that bogs it down.

I never had any problems with the Mods there.

Our group played Battle Tech about 1/month for the last 2 years. Now that Star Wars RPG from FFG is coming out, we're switching to that for our Sci-Fi RPG needs.

Battle Tech is fun and all, but with 6 players and the GM, the game takes F-ing forever to play out a 6 versus 6 mech battle. Also, we kept killing the other battle techs, gaining little to no salvage. We were always dirt poor.

Any how, I'm not sure why it's not popular in the OP's playing areas, but then, it doesn't have the big name of Star Wars or Star Trek associated with it.

 paulson games wrote:
It's kinda sad because Battletech has so much potential to be good if they'd update and streamline their system a bit.

 paulson games wrote:
Battletech is an interesting sort of relic game, it's something that you can sit down with a group of friends and play around the dining table and if you're lucky play at a game store. It's not a hot property like it was back in the day but still manages to keep putting out new models and books. It's kinda like how some players still play red box D&D or AD&D. The system is a bit dated but it's still golden for those who grew up playing it. You can have long gaps in between playing games (of years) and come back to it and it's like riding a bike and a very familiar one at that.

Seems like that's the real crux. How would it be streamlined and still keep all of the delicious grit we associate with BT?

I wouldn't. To me, the fun of the game was things like firing a barrage of LRMs from my Archer with the chance of a good head shot, or the fun of standing on a hill to kick a mech on the level below.

Tracking the heat points and the armour loss was an integral part of the game. You could get rid of all of that by streamlined mechanisms, but it wouldn't be the same game.

It is a fun and interesting game. The stats have been finely tuned for more than 2 decades. The problem is that it takes a long time for a lance vs lance level. Even with Megamek, it takes an average of 1.5 hrs for a match. It is time for the game to be evolved to have something like an Apple Apps to keep track of the damage and record keeping.

I have played BattleTech for ever. I have copies of all of the editions, including Battle-Droids and Critter-Tech.
I think the Clicky-Tech was a big setback for all of us “Old School Players”. I would love to get a regular game, but I think the 90’s did as much harm to my group than good. Now it hard to get a game everyone wants.
 I have a one who wants no Advanced Technology except for Double Heat Sinks and Clan CASE for everyone.
 One who only want to play Clan Mechs, but with out the Clan Combat Protocols, Zerbeg or something like that.
 Another one who want to use as much Level-3 Technology as he can squeeze on his Mech.
 One who only wants to run tanks and infantry, but hates the tank and infantry rule so he keeps coming up “House Rules”.
 Most want one shot games with now custom Mechs for each game.
 And then there is me who wants to run a War of 39 Campaign.

I tried to do the “Bob you chose what we played last time, so now its Dave’s Turn to Choose”. I even tried once to set up a weekly campaign at the LFGS, but his other game [Chough/WH40k/Chough] and some Card Games had everything booked up.

robertsjf wrote:
Seems like that's the real crux. How would it be streamlined and still keep all of the delicious grit we associate with BT?

That's a tough question, it's very hard to make cuts from the original version of the game. IMO you can slice out all the new stuff in a clean stroke, but tinkering with the 3025 set is hard.

The damge tracking and heat I don't think bog down the game too much, the huge time sink comes from the excessive number of dice rolls particuarly the LBX and missile sprays. I love opening up with a LRM-20 a much as the next guy but it's a lot of rolling. Plus if you haven't memorized the hit chart it's time checking the tables. I know the front/rear spread but I always have to look up side hits.

One roll to hit, then a likely 3-4 more rolls to determine locations, and two more rolls if you get a critical much less multiple crits. This also leads to the opponents possibly needing to roll dice. You could be looking at 8-10 dice rolls from a single attack, and you still have other weapons left to fire. that's a lot of rolling. SRMs roll locations for each missile which is awesome for peppering the target for crits but also means lots of dice.

It's not so bad when you have a direct fire weapon like lasers or autocannons. But considering how prevelant missile fire is it slows the turns down pretty heavily.

Matt Wilson stated he's a huge BT fan and Warmachine's damage system for the warjacks was loosely inspired from his BT days. I think you could adapt something like that which would simplify the numebr of dice rolls involved. You still have system damage and critical effects but it'd be a bit quicker in resolving. However it probably wouldn't feel all that much like battletech since the archaic system is so entrenched in the feel of the game.

I've always seen Battletech basically as an adaptation of Iron Clad ship combat. In game mechanics the weapons are very underpowered and you have these huge machine pounding the snot out of each other for several turns. Even modern weapon systems will disable or detroy a target in fractions of a second, but in battletech it takesa ponderously long time. Not saying that's a bad thing by any means.


One thing my group has done numerous times was to halve all the armor and inetrnal structure points in order to speed the game play up. Makes for much quicker games but it does feel a bit off.


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 Anpu42 wrote:
Now it hard to get a game everyone wants.
 I have a one who wants no Advanced Technology except for Double Heat Sinks and Clan CASE for everyone.
 One who only want to play Clan Mechs, but with out the Clan Combat Protocols, Zerbeg or something like that.
 Another one who want to use as much Level-3 Technology as he can squeeze on his Mech.
 One who only wants to run tanks and infantry, but hates the tank and infantry rule so he keeps coming up “House Rules”.
 Most want one shot games with now custom Mechs for each game.
 And then there is me who wants to run a War of 39 Campaign.

I run into that as well, each player in my group has differant wants for the game and they are pretty extreme. The majorly difficult ones to deal with are

The guy who will only play clan mecha, if he can't play clans he flat out refuses to play.

The guy who always wants 3 full lances per side at a minimum. Yet quits 3 turns into the massive game because he's bored due to each players turn taking a half hour.

The guy who only wants to play custom constructed mechs and won't play if we have use out of the book mechs.

With everyone having the my way or highway attitude it's very tough to find a scenario that'll keep anyone happy.

It sounds like you have a lot of very entitled-feeling players.

In my day, if the game master set up a scenario you either played it or you went to find a different game. There was no griping and moaning that your particular foible had not been catered for.

Mind you, that was classic B'tech so there was a lot less crap in the game.

As the GM, you say I'm running X game with Y rules. People either agree or run their own game. I can't recall ever telling a GM "I want ___ or I'm not playing!"

 paulson games wrote:

robertsjf wrote:
Seems like that's the real crux. How would it be streamlined and still keep all of the delicious grit we associate with BT?

That's a tough question, it's very hard to make cuts from the original version of the game.

Anytime you're dealing with a game with 25+ years worth of history, you're going to get a huge range of complaints regarding what should stay and what should be cut... doubly so when you're talking about a genre defining game like battletech. It's like the old joke about simplifying the English language attributed to Mark Twain. Getting rid of the useless letter "c" would be kut and replased either by "k" or "s" depending on which one is more appropriate. No matter how much "sense" that makes to newcomers, you'll always have people who have always spoken the language that will complain about missing the letter "c" and who didn't think the issue was worth changing.

I've really tried liking Battletech twice in twenty years and found the same problems with the minis and rules (which despite the supposed changes made in both I found to be incredibly similar 20 years later to the stuff I didn't like 20 years earlier). I've bought a few minis and the rules each time and both times have given up on it after a few demo games. It's a chicken and egg situation... do you change enough to satisfy the people that have specifically stayed away from your game if doing so happens at the expense of the ever shrinking base of people that have kept you in business all those years? The plastic clix game did alot to at least keep the universe in the mind of "young" gamers (young referring to their age 5-10 years ago when it was being released) but I haven't met anyone that transitioned into the traditional game from it (I'm sure they're out there but every battletech player I meet is in their late 30s to 50's). Hopefully the upcoming PC game (as well as the unrelated Hawken) will be a boon to the tabletop game. If they get some cash and attention from those avenues, they might be able to give the game more than just a fresh coat of paint that it's been getting all these years without sinking the company in the process.

 kronk wrote:
As the GM, you say I'm running X game with Y rules. People either agree or run their own game. I can't recall ever telling a GM "I want ___ or I'm not playing!"

I never got that, but I got a lot of b@tching and crying and the occasional I I am not feeling well so I wont be making it to day calls from one player.
It actually got to the point of depending on what I was running I could tell who would show.

I will say though that recently we only play BattleTech every couple of months were I even pre-generate the forces and come up with multi-objective missions, usually 4th succession war or early Clan War and we had some real fun with.
The one trick I have come with Scenarios is limiting the Head Chopper Weapons to a minimum number, say 1-2 a side. This make most people happy as the quick kill goes away. Though I am thinking of making a Company on Company game were most of the Mech have Head-Choppers. This should make for a big and quick game.

The guy who will only play clan mecha, if he can't play clans he flat out refuses to play.

Well, to be fair there are just as many, if not more, who would refuse to play if clan tech was allowed. So there's really no middle ground there at all.

Personally I'd probably be that kinda guy, considering that there are a lot of ugly BT models out there and a lot of the best designs are clan mechs, including some of the more iconic mechs in the game.

 Sidstyler wrote:
Personally I'd probably be that kinda guy, considering that there are a lot of ugly BT models out there and a lot of the best designs are clan mechs, including some of the more iconic mechs in the game.

I know, there are a lot of FUGLY Mechs out there.

My group is a train wreck and it's why my gaming on the whole tends to be pretty limited. Most of them are very opinionated to the point where it interferes with their ability to actually find games. This carries through in lots of games besides BT. It's very disfunctional group and most ofthem barely tollerate the other players which is sad.

I have a preference to use the 3025 tech, but I'm equally at home playing any other level. In order to accomidate the other players I usually end up playing everything but 3025. Typically I do 1 on 1 games as I can't seem to get the group to play together nice enough to do proper multiplayer games.

This of course all has to do with the crazy ship of fools I game with and not the game itself. I really need to find some new groups to game with, I picked up Infinity specifically because nobody in my group plays it and it'll give me a chance to dodge them at the store and play some new people.


There are some pretty fugly mechs in the game, but there's no reason that somebody couldn't play a madcat model that is built using 3025 level tech if they just wanted the pretty visuals.


Also Hawken looks like it'll be awesome, dying to see how that plays.

 paulson games wrote:
My group is a train wreck and it's why my gaming on the whole tends to be pretty limited. Most of them are very opinionated to the point where it interferes with their ability to actually find games. This carries through in lots of games besides BT. It's very disfunctional group and most ofthem barely tollerate the other players which is sad.

Wow.

Man, I must be pretty lucky to have such a good game group. We actually had a waiting list at one point...

I do miss my good old days. We had a friend who had a 7’ x 11’ billiard table in his garage. It was just the 3 250lbs pieces of slate, but it was solid. The joke was “If you bump a normal gaming table figures fall over, but on this one the player falls down!”
We used to have Battalion on Battalion Games where you would have 3+ engagements that were out of range of each other. Long Toms on board took turns to reach the other side of the table. We were planning on trying a Full Regiment on Full Regiment [HQ Section, Air Support, Drop Pods] before he went into the army, but never got to do it.

 Sidstyler wrote:

The guy who will only play clan mecha, if he can't play clans he flat out refuses to play.

Well, to be fair there are just as many, if not more, who would refuse to play if clan tech was allowed. So there's really no middle ground there at all.

Easy fix: clanners get clan mechs, 3025 grognards get 3025 mechs. Hilarity ensues!

 kronk wrote:
Man, I must be pretty lucky to have such a good game group. We actually had a waiting list at one point...

My gaming life is that of a dessert rose.

Long stretches of harsh exsistance with rare moments of refreshing rain.

 warboss wrote:

 paulson games wrote:

robertsjf wrote:
Seems like that's the real crux. How would it be streamlined and still keep all of the delicious grit we associate with BT?

That's a tough question, it's very hard to make cuts from the original version of the game.

.

Yeah, I think the best decision would be to not cut the original game down. CBT is trapped in that it's fans like it's mammoth collection of rules yet it's simply not a game (in scope, play-style, or rules) that's going to get the kind of traction that the popular games have. It's got it's own stable of fans who like the grit so leave it as it is, and keep producing it.

The solution is to at the same time release Quick Strike as it's own stand alone rulebook, possibly with a few minor tweaks to make it less battleforce'ish. Actively promote it as the battletech game of big battles or "Mass Battle". Such a game would allow folks to use as many figures as you do in WM or similar games while not taking all day to play. Folks who buy into Quick Strike could use the same models, novels, sourcebooks, etc as other folks, and would be engaging in the same incredibly well-developed BT universe, they'd just be playing a different game on real terrain rather than mapsheets.
.
As for my self, as I mentioned above, I love the BT universe, but for rules I simply play Mech Attack, as it is extremely streamlined, but lets me put a bunch of units on the table quickly and has just enough chrome that I can make the mechs loosely reflect BT fluff. It would not satisfy a fan of the game CBT, but might satisfy someone who likes the fluff and just wants a bit of mech gaming fun.

paulson games wrote:Also Hawken looks like it'll be awesome, dying to see how that plays.

It's a first person shooter. If they replaced the mech textures with people and the weapons with rifles, it'd totally work. The mech-ness is pretty much appearance only.

As for BT, I play it once a month, but don't think it's amazing. The main issue is taking too long. Some alternate rules:

Gruntz 15mm - started off as an adaptation of Warmachine to do battletech faster. Ended up being a complete sci-fi game with rules for vehicles, infantry, etc., as well as mechs. Mechs are not the focus, infantry are, but it still works with all mechs just like Warmachine works if you go jack heavy. What is stripped out is the caster, so it's more of a traditional wargame and not about buffing spells, feats, combos/synergy.

Armor Grid: Mech Attack - a fast play game with classic batltetech sensibilities. Originally designed as rules to support a line of printable paper miniatures, but the game is solid enough to use with any miniatures.

MechaWar by Precinct Omega - super abstract game. A lance per side will finish in under an hour, likely less. All weapons are abstracted together as "firepower." No heat is tracked. An interesting turn mechanic where you alternate activations and have reactions.