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2013/01/04 13:16:47
Subject: Happy New Year! - My Next 1750 Battle - Grey Knights vs Janthkin's Tyranids - BAO Match
This time, however, we both brought slightly different lists. Instead of the psyfleman dreadnoughts that I normally use, my current GK list has swapped them out for dreadknights. And Janthkin threw me in for a little surprise. Instead of bringing his flyrant and the Doom that he normally runs in his current lists, he ran more of a throwback to his 5th Edition tyranids - genestealers and ymgarls! Can and will they still work in this edition? We shall find out.
1750 Jy2's Grey Knight Horde vs Hive Fleet Janthkin
1750 Grey Knights
Coteaz (Divination, Warlord)
10x Strike Squad - 2x Psycannons, Psybolt Ammo, 1x Daemonhammer (not on Justicar)
10x Strike Squad - 2x Psycannons, Psybolt Ammo
10x Strike Squad - 2x Psycannons, Psybolt Ammo
10x Strike Squad - 2x Psycannons, Psybolt Ammo
10x Strike Squad - 2x Psycannons, Psybolt Ammo
5x Henchmen
Dreadknight - Heavy Incinerator
Dreadknight - Heavy Incinerator
Aegis Defense Line - Quad-guns
Basically, my army relies on shooting buffed by psychic powers. With good shooting and decent assault, it's only real weakness is its mobility, which I will compensate for by deepstriking 1 or maybe 2 units of grey knights.
Mission:Bay Area Open Scenario #6 - The Relic (3pts) & Big Guns Never Tire (4pts)
The way the BAO scenarios work is this. There are always 2 book missions, one worth 4 points and the other worth 3 points. There are also the 3 bonus points - First Blood, Slay the Warlord and Linebreaker - for a possible total of 10 points. Whoever gets the most points wins. In scenario #3, The Relic is worth 3-points and Big Guns Never Tire is worth 4-points. There are 4 objectives for Big Guns.
Grey Knights: I applaud Kevin for bring genestealers and ymgarls, but I do feel that he's going to have his work cut out for him. They've been hit somewhat with the nerf-bat here in 6E. Ymgarls not as much, but genestealers, yeah. Now, outflanking with them isn't as dangerous as it used to be as they will be out in the open for an entire turn for my army to shoot down. This will also leave them out of range most likely for any psychic buffs like Endurance or Invisibility. Then, there's Overwatch, random charge lengths and the penalty for multi-charges that will hurt them. I think that in this game, the Doom would probably prove to be more effective.
There is no question that my shooting will be devastating. However, certain psychic powers will help out the bugs. Iron Arm on his big guys can make them impervious to my S5 stormbolters or at the very least, make them wound on 6's again. But probably the key power that my opponent will try to get will be the Telepathy power, Invisibility. Invisibility combined with Endurance or Catalyst will make for nearly indestructible genestealers, especially when screened by his gargoyles. If his stealers can hit my lines at full strength, then my knights will be in for a world of hurt. That many poisoned stealers will even wipe out my dreadknights with ease.
But the main advantage Kevin will have against me will be board control. As long as his tervigons don't run out of gants early, he can press forwards and keep my knights contained in my own deployment zone. If he does this, then he will have the advantage in objectives-based missions. He will also be more likely to reach the Relic. If he can get a T9 Iron Armed tervigon onto it, it may well be game over for that mission objective. Yes, the knights may be a bad matchup for the bugs, but the mission objectives favor them. However, I know this and won't make it easy for him. I will probably deepstrike 1 or 2 units onto his objectives and force him to divert his resources to deal with them. Then again, that will be 1 or 2 units that won't be able to contribute their mighty firepower for perhaps a few turns so there is a trade-off there.
My opponent was trying to get Invisibility but just couldn't get it. Isn't that too bad.
Zoanthrope #1 - Life Leech, Warp Speed
Zoanthrope #2 - Smite, Life Leech
Zoanthrope #2 - Smite, Endurance
Tervigon #1 (Claws) - Iron Arm, Smite
Tervigon #2 - Kept his codex powers
Overall, besides Iron Arm on one of his tervigons, my opponent didn't get the powers that he had wanted. Too bad for him. Good for me (though Hallucination looks pretty darn nasty).
I set up my fortifications.
My 2 Big Gun objectives.
My opponent's objectives.
The Relic.
Bugs deploy. Ymgarls and 1 unit of termagants stay in reserves.
I then deploy my grey knights. I combat squad 3 units and leave 1 unit intact for Coteaz to join.
I then leave 1 unit of strikers and 1 dreadknight in reserves to deepstrike in later.
Kevin then infiltrates his stealers to the left (from my perspective) and I know exactly what he is going to do. He is going to overload my left flank and deny my right units from shooting (by staying out of range of their guns and using as much of the LOS-blocking central hill as he can). Basically, he is doing exactly what I did to my GK opponent in this battle report:
Zoanthropes cast Endurance on the genestealers. Tervigon casts Catalyst on the gargoyles.
Tyranids move and then run. As I expected, everyone shifts to the left.
Janthkin sets up a trap for my dreadknight. He exposes about half of his genestealers, hoping to draw my dreadknight closer in order to incinerate more stealers. However, that would also take my dreadknight out of terrain where my opponent could more easily assault him.....and do so without having to go through terrain.
Hive guards fire at Coteaz's unit. Coteaz uses Look-Out-Sir! to pass the wounds onto my strikers. 1 dies to the hive guards.
Grey Knights 1
Spoiler:
For some reason, I forget entirely to take pictures of my Movement phase. Coteaz casts Prescience on his own unit but fails to cast Precognition.
My knights advance to the edge of the terrain but stay within it. The knights within the Aegis Defense Line shuffle around to get a better firing angle to the bugs, all while staying within the protection of its walls. Finally, my dreadknight advance but just a little. I decide to play more conservatively, opting for the protection of the terrain rather than advancing out to kill more genestealers.
This is the impact of running a genestealer and ymgarl army. Psychologically, they will affect how your opponent plays.
I then focus my entire army onto the genestealers. Janthkin makes his FNP saves like a champ. However, I still end up killing 10 stealers. If he had not made his FNP saves like marines making their armour saves, I probably would have killed some of his gargoyles as well.
Tyranids 2
Spoiler:
Overview of the beginning of Turn 2.
His gants come in.
As does his ymgarls.
Tyranids get ready to assault. Once again, stealers get Endurance and gargoyles get Catalyst.
Kevin makes a tactical error here. He should have given his Swarmlord FNP instead. I'm not sure he realizes just how nasty stormbolter-spam coupled with Prescience can be, but you can be sure I am going to make Swarmy pay next turn....assuming Coteaz's unit doesn't get tied up by the ymgarls.
Swarmy then casts Hallucination on my dreadknight, which I fail to deny. Gasp! He gets the effect which makes my dreadknight strike at himself. Uh oh....I can potentially force weapon myself to death. Janthkin then proceeds to roll a to wound.
The rest of tyranid shooting does nothing.
1 ymgarl dies to Overwatch. A brilliant turn of saving by the ymgarls.
Here is where Janthkin gets kicked in the nuts. He declares a charge with the stealers, who are about 9.5" away. I decline to Overwatch and he rolls a 6+3 for his charge distance, thus failing. Wait...they are fleet. He re-rolls the 3....and gets a 2. Then the gargoyles, who are about 5" away, make the charge. I then Overwatch with my dreadknight, killing 2. Now he is about 7" away and proceeds to roll a 6 on his charge distance. Another failed charge! So my strategy to leave my dreadknight in area terrain paid off big time!
To add insult to injury, he loses 6 ymgarls on the charge to Coteaz's unit, due to his ymgarls striking last and to Prescience and Hammerhand. The last ymgarls runs away 4".
Grey Knights 2
Spoiler:
Things are not looking too hot for tyranids right now. Coteaz casts both powers successfully.
My strikers come in near his objective. I've got my sights set on Swarmy. 1 knight dies to Dangerous Terrain.
My other dreadknight also comes in near his other objective. He scatters slightly.
GK's reposition themselves.
I move back slightly from his T9 Iron Armed tervigon!
I dedicate 1 combat squad to shoot down his lone ymgarl. Why? Because I didn't want him to eat Overwatch and allow another unit to assault Overwatch-free.
Dreadknight flames and kills 4 gants.
My shooting is devastating. Just Coteaz's unit is enough to shoot down the Swarmlord, freeing my newly-arrived squad to fire at another unit. I end up killing another 5 genestealers and 6 gargoyles. Though he rolled poorly for Swarmy, at least my opponent rolled well for his other units.
Tyranids 3
Spoiler:
Overview of the top of Turn 3. My opponent would cast his psychic powers every turn.
Tyranid movement. Gargoyles go after the dreadknight.
Tervigon spawn 12 gants who then go to deal with my dreadknight.
His other tervigon - the crushing claws one near the Relic - spawns 7 gants and runs out. BTW, he is only T8 this turn...but with FNP and It Will Not Die! from Endurance.
In shooting, gargoyles only manage to wound my dreadknight once....and I happen to fail that 1 save.
Tervigon fires its cluster spines at my knights and I lose 1 from each squad.
The combination of Smite from the zoans, hive guards and gants kill off 4 knight by his objective.
They would then combo-charge my knights. I shoot down 2 gants with my Overwatch.
Gants charge my dreadknight. 2 dies to Overwatch.
Gargoyles charge my other dreadknight. 2 also dies to Overwatch.
My plan here is very sneaky. I plan to lose combat and run away. I smash the gargoyles, thus halving my number of attacks.
The dreadknight actually loses combat 1 to 3 and then fail his morale. Yes!
Gargoyles then catch my dreadknight in a Sweeping Advance. Noooooo! He remains locked in combat.
Here I plan to lose combat and fall back as well. Tyranids actually win this combat 2 to 1. However, this time my knights pass morale.
I try to lose combat here as well. However, we end up drawing combat with 2 Wounds each.
Grey Knights 3
Spoiler:
After casting my psychic powers, I decide to take the fight to my opponent, especially now that I don't have to worry any more about ymgarls or the stealers. Knights advance. Coteaz goes to rescue the dreadknight.
My shooting doesn't do much to the T8 tervigon.
Coteaz and friends assault the gargoyles.
Hammer unit assault the tervigon, hoping to force weapon him to death.
As a tyranid player as well, I am forgetting a lot of stuff. Like the fact that the Tervigon is Eternal Warrior due to Iron Arm.
Dreadknight kills 4 gants.
Strikers win 2 to 1 and stay locked in combat.
I wipe out the gargoyles and consolidate.
Knights don't do any damage to the tervigon and lose 3 of their own to it.
They then fall back and the tervigon consolidates up the hill.
Tyranids 4
Spoiler:
Overview of the top of Turn 4.
This is when Janthkin goes for the win.
Tervigon gets up to T8 again with Iron Arm and goes to grab the Relic. He is planning to assault Coteaz's unit and to get stuck in combat for the rest of the game. Genestealers and gants get ready to absorb my deadly Overwatch.
His other tervigon spawns another 8 gants without running out. They will go to help out against my dreadknight.
All 3 units charge, first with the genestealers who I Overwatch and wipe out and lastly with the tervigon.
I issue a challenge with my Justicar to minimize the damage from his crushing claws.
My single striker survives combat!
New gants charge. My dreadknight not only survives combat, but he kills another 3 gants!
I wipe out all the gants and my Justicar survives his tervigon, who fluffed every single attack!
Grey Knights 4
Spoiler:
Despite his bad luck, Janthkin is actually in a commanding lead. He's got his Iron Armed tervigon with the Relic (and with 5W still remaining) and stuck in combat where he wants to be. And if he can even kill 1 dreadknight, he will have Big Guns as well.
I believe this has been his plan all along, and now I am in trouble!
Grey knights advance. Dreadknight with only 1W remaining goes to help out on the tervigon. At this point, I still haven't realized yet that the tervigon is Eternal Warrior and have delusions of force weaponing him to death.
Knights fire at zoanthrope (with FNP), kill 2 and put 1W on the last one.
My dreadknight then charges his tervigon. I use Glorious Intervention to swap places with the Justicar in the challenge.
I manage to hit and wound successfully 4 times. He then fails all 4 of his FNP. I then tell him that I will force weapon him to death. My opponent then informs me his tervigon is Eternal Warrior. Doh!
Kevin then goes and wounds my dreadknight twice. I past my 1st Invuln save but fail my 2nd! Fortunately for Moral Support, I get to re-roll it and pass it the second time. ***Whewww...breathes a sigh of relief.***
Bugs wipe out my lone striker on his objective.
And finally, his gants kill my dreadknight.
Uh oh, now he has got Big Guns unless if I can somehow contest his objective. Now I MUST get the Relic or lose.
Tyranids 5
Spoiler:
Overview of the top of Turn 5. Tervigon becomes T9 from Iron Arm. Not only that, but he gets Endurance from the last zoanthrope.
Tyranid movement. My opponent is going to sacrifice his zoanthrope by throwing him into combat. Why? So that my dreadknight doesn't get Moral Support.
Hive guards shoot down my unit of 2 knights with hammer. Now I can't really threaten his tervigon.
As expected, his zoanthrope charges in.
And I kill him. However, both my dreadknight and his tervigon whiff their attacks and fail to do any damage!
Grey Knights 5
Spoiler:
Oh crap. I really needed to kill his tervigon last turn. Now I can't pick up the Relic and need for the game to go on for at least another turn. If the game ends this turn, Janthkin will pick up the victory and upset.
My knights advance but stay within range of their objective.
I focus the rest of my knights at his other tervigon. Psycannons remain stationary in order to fire 4 shots each (they are within range). I manage to kill off his tervigon!!!
I finally manage to kill off his Iron Armed tervigon in assault with my dreadknight.
Even though I am in a commanding lead, I am still losing. So far, I've got First Blood and Warlord for 2-pts. However, because my opponent slew one of my dreadknights and we both own 2 objectives each, he has Big Guns for 4-pts. However, he needs for the game to end now or next turn, I just walk up to and pick up the Relic for a 5-4 win.
We roll to see if the game continues and......
Tyranids 6
Spoiler:
Overview of the top of Turn 6.
Janthkin has 1 more chance to try to win this. It is a very slim chance, but if he can somehow pull it off....
Hive guards get ready to multi-assault. If they can tie up both my dreadknight and my grey knights for just 1 turn, he will prevent me from capturing the Relic and winning the game. Of course, this is assuming his hive guards survive, the game ends on 6 and I don't blow away the gants on his objective without synapse.
They charge but my Overwatch kills 1 hive guard. That is enough as now he cannot multi-assault.
With that, we call the game without needing to resolve the combat. Next turn I will just walk up with my dreadknight and pick up the Relic.
I am going to go bugs unless you bring a strong compliment of gloom spiders. I am betting that Janthkin will be bringing strong psychic support (tervies, zoes, swarmie). Nids ability to enfeeble the wraithwings and scarabs that a more balanced necron army brings will allow the gribblies to have an even bigger presence on the field. It just hurts when mere gargoyles can mow down 20 scarabs due to ID. Iron Arm and endurance can mitigate some of the tesla, especially if he brings any 2+ Dakka Tyrants (though from previous BR, I think Janthkin runs Swarmie and rolls for invisibility). If he can get off invisibility on his gargoyles, you will be having some problems -- so you might want to take them or swarmie out early on, especially if you go first. Ygmarls can go after annie barges or your home team objective holders + Imo. I just think that you are in for a hard match due to nid's amazing synergies and Jankith's ability to get in your face early on.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
jy2 wrote: For my next 1750 battle coming up probably this Thursday or Friday, I'm going to do sometime a little different. I'm going to let the readers decide which army I will take. So cast your votes for which of my armies you want to see next!
For the knights, I see necron night scythes as a good complement for a Draigowing build, who traditionally is a very slow army.
A friend runs something similar except it is 3 vendettas with IG veterans plus manticores (as the main force) allied to a Draigomob. The list has won several local RTT.
For the crons, I would like to ally in a Runes of Warding farseer for some psychic protection. Too bad I can't.
You could take a runepriest for the 4+ dispel that is imho much better than the seer
Psychic protection wise I would disagree (unless you are factoring in JAWS). Runes of Warding is roughly a 50/50 as well and covers the entire table. It also causes perils on a 12+ (or maybe it is a 14...it doesn't matter either way as I peril like a pro). I tend to roll 4,5,and 6s on my psychic tests...so as far as I am concerned any game without a farseer is a good game.
This message was edited 10 times. Last update was at 2013/01/05 00:32:13
wyomingfox wrote: I am going to go bugs unless you bring a strong compliment of gloom spiders. I am betting that Janthkin will be bringing strong psychic support (tervies, zoes, swarmie). Nids ability to enfeeble the wraithwings and scarabs that a more balanced necron army brings will allow the gribblies to have an even bigger presence on the field. It just hurts when mere gargoyles can mow down 20 scarabs due to ID. Iron Arm and endurance can mitigate some of the tesla, especially if he brings any 2+ Dakka Tyrants (though from previous BR, I think Janthkin runs Swarmie and rolls for invisibility). If he can get off invisibility on his gargoyles, you will be having some problems -- so you might want to take them or swarmie out early on, especially if you go first. Ygmarls can go after annie barges or your home team objective holders + Imo. I just think that you are in for a hard match due to nid's amazing synergies and Jankith's ability to get in your face early on.
So I see alot of your lists are 1750 and 2000. How would you scale you army up to 1850? A more common size here in Wisconsin.
From my experiences, tyranids match up well against necrons. As a matter of fact, with the exception of a full-on airforce, in my necron-tyranid battles, most of the time it is my necrons who have had to come from behind or, if I am playing nids, it is my nids who are in command most of the game. Necrons can dominate most armies. Tyranids are just not one of those.
At 1850, I'm thinking about adding zoans to the list. The Doom, 3x hive guards, 2x zoans and fill up the rest of gargoyles and gants (or scything talons for the tervies). I lose out on more reliable AT shooting, but in return, I get more synapse coverage, more psychic buffs and also better AT against heavy armour, especially now that I'm beginning to see land raiders and leman russes make somewhat of a comeback here in our local meta (and perhaps nationally as well).
For the knights, I see necron night scythes as a good complement for a Draigowing build, who traditionally is a very slow army.
A friend runs something similar except it is 3 vendettas with IG veterans plus manticores (as the main force) allied to a Draigomob. The list has won several local RTT.
For the crons, I would like to ally in a Runes of Warding farseer for some psychic protection. Too bad I can't.
You could take a runepriest for the 4+ dispel that is imho much better than the seer
Psychic protection wise I would disagree (unless you are factoring in JAWS). Runes of Warding is roughly a 50/50 as well and covers the entire table. It also causes perils on a 12+ (or maybe it is a 14...it doesn't matter either way as I peril like a pro). I tend to roll 4,5,and 6s on my psychic tests...so as far as I am concerned any game without a farseer is a good game.
Interesting IG/GK combo list. I can see it as causing a lot of problems to many armies, though I can also see how it can have problems against certain armies as well.
As for allying Rune Priests, if they weren't Desperate Allies, I would consider it. But having the unit not be able to both score or contest, along with its very limited range psychic defense, kills this combo for me.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Eldercaveman wrote: I like what you did there, Bugs and GK's both got their way!
Yeah!
Scottiebhoy wrote: Will be good to see how the GK get on against the bugs!
I think the knights have an advantage here with their superior shooting. However, that is not factoring the general, who in this case is very good.
DarthDiggler wrote: On a personal level I hate Coteaz. Win or lose I gain much satisfaction in having him die during a game of 40k.
Yeah, everyone hates to play against him. Being able to cast 2 Divination powers is rough, not to mention all the other bonuses he brings to the army.
However, I can tell you that he is not the most annoying HQ's to fight. That dishonor would probably go to: any Necron Overlord/Destroyer Lord with ResOrbs, Eldrad and St. Celestine.
Especially Eldrad. I hate him with a passion.
rigeld2 wrote: I love precision sniping him with brain leech Devourers.
Edit: yay jy2 - page 2!
That's another one of those rules that I keep on forgetting with my tyranids.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/01/05 18:16:48
Barring some seriously bad luck, this shouldn't be difficult for the GK player. The Nid list has almost no way to project into the far side of the board. Without Flyrants, DoM, or Biovores, he's limited to a single unit of 8 Ymgarls, which will likely kill 1 unit before becoming combat ineffective and then dying.
2013/01/05 21:21:59
Subject: Happy New Year! - My Next 1750 Battle - Grey Knights vs Janthkin's Tyranids - BAO Match
Your opponent sure seems to like smite, which makes it a bit curious that he kept warp speed on a zoey. Hallucination can be scary but it's not as effective since you combat squaded, and Mental Fortitude will be useful if he wants to throw the Gargs at you since that might take them out of synapse range. I think if he can get to the relic 1st turn with the stealers, drop it 1" behind him when you kill that stealer, then have the iron arm tervie pick it up T2, it'll be tough for you to catch him. Assuming his tervies don't both lock on T1, I don't think you'll be able to push him off his home objectives very easily, but your GK do put out a lot of shots on the move though and Heavy Incinerators are bad news for the little bugs. It also doesn't hurt that EVERY unit is scoring for you lol. I could see this going either way, I'm definitely interested to see how this one turns out.
I'm assuming your using the Heavy Metal rule, does it apply for just the Big Guns objectives, or both the Objectives and the Relic?
2013/01/06 02:11:28
Subject: Re:Happy New Year! - My Next 1750 Battle - Grey Knights vs Janthkin's Tyranids - BAO Match
Battle report to be concluded after I come back from dinner.
Reecius wrote: I always love seeing this match up, you're both excellent players.
Thanks! We got to get a game in one of these days when you're not so busy.
Traceoftoxin wrote: Barring some seriously bad luck, this shouldn't be difficult for the GK player. The Nid list has almost no way to project into the far side of the board. Without Flyrants, DoM, or Biovores, he's limited to a single unit of 8 Ymgarls, which will likely kill 1 unit before becoming combat ineffective and then dying.
Normally I would agree, but time and time again, Janthkin has made what appeared to be a bad matchup for him into a very competitive and close battle. He's even won a few of those games where I thought I should be able to win.
Bugs_N_Orks wrote: Your opponent sure seems to like smite, which makes it a bit curious that he kept warp speed on a zoey. Hallucination can be scary but it's not as effective since you combat squaded, and Mental Fortitude will be useful if he wants to throw the Gargs at you since that might take them out of synapse range. I think if he can get to the relic 1st turn with the stealers, drop it 1" behind him when you kill that stealer, then have the iron arm tervie pick it up T2, it'll be tough for you to catch him. Assuming his tervies don't both lock on T1, I don't think you'll be able to push him off his home objectives very easily, but your GK do put out a lot of shots on the move though and Heavy Incinerators are bad news for the little bugs. It also doesn't hurt that EVERY unit is scoring for you lol. I could see this going either way, I'm definitely interested to see how this one turns out.
I'm assuming your using the Heavy Metal rule, does it apply for just the Big Guns objectives, or both the Objectives and the Relic?
Because he rolled another shooting power first, swapped it for smite and then rolled Warp Speed afterwards. My opponent doesn't very much care for Life Leech (or was it Hemorrhage?).
Hallucination can be nasty as heck against the grey knights. It's a scary power because grey knights are all wielding force weapons.
It'll be hard to pick up the relic with his gribblies. I don't think he will even try, at least not in the early game. I'd just shoot them down since they can't run and will be exposed out in the open. But yeah, I'll probably have trouble dislodging his gribblies and tervigon from their objectives. And yeah, having a lot of scoring units is a huge plus in this mission.
The VP for killing a heavy support only counts towards Big Guns. However, since the dreadknights are scoring as well, then they can pick up the Relic. At least that is my understanding. On the other hand, what would make a difference as Big Guns is worth 4-pts whereas Relic only 3-pts. So given that we both control 2 objectives, all my opponent needs to do is kill 1 dreadknight and he takes Big Guns. Then even if I get the Relic, I'd still be behind.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2013/01/06 02:15:14
I can't see Tyranids winning this one now unless something drastic happens. Seems like so far most everything has gone right for GK and not much at all for Nidz. Oh well.
Ugh...only T2 and it's looking bad for the bugs. Not a fan of his move with the Ymgarls, by my rough calculations you did a statistically average amount of damage by killing 7 between overwatch and striking first with prescience+HH (assuming he morphed for toughness, more if he didn't), I'm not sure what he really thought he'd accomplish. Going after the Dreadnight or even just spreading out in cover contesting the objective (so you have to use more than 1 combat squad to kill them) would have accomplished a lot more.
jy2 wrote: It'll be hard to pick up the relic with his gribblies. I don't think he will even try, at least not in the early game. I'd just shoot them down since they can't run and will be exposed out in the open.
I know you'll shoot them dead as soon they pick it up, but when they die they get to drop it 1" away from the model. So just by having 1 or 2 guys jumping out in the open picking it up and getting killed the nids can shuffle the relic backwards until it's behind the hill and out of LoS. Either the Infiltrating Stealers, or a spawned guant unit could grab it first turn (if there's a tervie placed right up front). Once the Iron Arm (and then likely enduranced) Tervie has the relic then the pressure is on you to come kill him and he can focus on just killing your DSers.
jy2 wrote: The VP for killing a heavy support only counts towards Big Guns. However, since the dreadknights are scoring as well, then they can pick up the Relic. At least that is my understanding. On the other hand, what would make a difference as Big Guns is worth 4-pts whereas Relic only 3-pts. So given that we both control 2 objectives, all my opponent needs to do is kill 1 dreadknight and he takes Big Guns. Then even if I get the Relic, I'd still be behind.
I was just asking because it's obviously a custom mission so it works however you decide it works. Personally I think Heavy Metal should only apply to the Big Guns part of the mission but it ain't my call.
2013/01/06 10:40:41
Subject: Re:Happy New Year! - My Next 1750 Battle - Grey Knights vs Janthkin's Tyranids - BAO Match
Gargoyles then catch my dreadknight in a Sweeping Advance. Noooooo! He remains locked in combat.
I might be missing something obvious here, but if he was caught in a sweeping advance, shouldn't the dreadknight have been removed as a casualty?
2000 pts
Compel wrote:
Because in a universe where the basic weapon is a rocket propelled grenade machine gun, with gigantic battletanks, 5 kilometer long spaceships, huge robots and power armoured supersoldiers, the most powerful guy you want to field on a battlefield is a bloke in a pointy hat carrying a stick.
2013/01/06 12:18:16
Subject: Happy New Year! - My Next 1750 Battle - Grey Knights vs Janthkin's Tyranids - BAO Match
And they shall know no fear means they get caught...
and fight on... most op rule in the game that and rallying and actually moving more than allowed...
You have ruled this galaxy for ten thousand years
Yet have little of account to show for your efforts
Order. Unity. Obedience.
We taught the galaxy these things
And we shall do so again.
4500 pts
2013/01/06 14:33:54
Subject: Happy New Year! - My Next 1750 Battle - Grey Knights vs Janthkin's Tyranids - BAO Match
Ohhhh.. Top of turn 3 and it doesn't look good for the grey knights. Both Dreadknights look to be going down and the toughness 8 Tervigon is about to grab the Relic. The rest of the GK list is tied up behind the ADL.
2013/01/06 15:23:40
Subject: Happy New Year! - My Next 1750 Battle - Grey Knights vs Janthkin's Tyranids - BAO Match
Bugs_N_Orks wrote: Ugh...only T2 and it's looking bad for the bugs. Not a fan of his move with the Ymgarls, by my rough calculations you did a statistically average amount of damage by killing 7 between overwatch and striking first with prescience+HH (assuming he morphed for toughness, more if he didn't), I'm not sure what he really thought he'd accomplish. Going after the Dreadnight or even just spreading out in cover contesting the objective (so you have to use more than 1 combat squad to kill them) would have accomplished a lot more.
jy2 wrote: It'll be hard to pick up the relic with his gribblies. I don't think he will even try, at least not in the early game. I'd just shoot them down since they can't run and will be exposed out in the open.
I know you'll shoot them dead as soon they pick it up, but when they die they get to drop it 1" away from the model. So just by having 1 or 2 guys jumping out in the open picking it up and getting killed the nids can shuffle the relic backwards until it's behind the hill and out of LoS. Either the Infiltrating Stealers, or a spawned guant unit could grab it first turn (if there's a tervie placed right up front). Once the Iron Arm (and then likely enduranced) Tervie has the relic then the pressure is on you to come kill him and he can focus on just killing your DSers.
jy2 wrote: The VP for killing a heavy support only counts towards Big Guns. However, since the dreadknights are scoring as well, then they can pick up the Relic. At least that is my understanding. On the other hand, what would make a difference as Big Guns is worth 4-pts whereas Relic only 3-pts. So given that we both control 2 objectives, all my opponent needs to do is kill 1 dreadknight and he takes Big Guns. Then even if I get the Relic, I'd still be behind.
I was just asking because it's obviously a custom mission so it works however you decide it works. Personally I think Heavy Metal should only apply to the Big Guns part of the mission but it ain't my call.
His ymgarls were in a tough spot. Either assault - against Coteaz's unit or the dreadknight - wouldn't have gone well for him, especially when he needed to go through terrain in order to do so. But on the bright side, his ymgarls changed my gameplan and made me stay in terrain longer than I had wanted to. That would prove to be a problem later on when I had to go for the objectives. And yeah, they did morphed for T5.
They couldn't drop the Relic down the hill as that would require a 3" movement/drop. Thus he would be forced to leave it on the hill for the next guy to pick it up. The hill made the Relic much more difficult to play. You couldn't pass it down. You had to walk it down.
With regards to the mission, both my opponent and I thought (or perhaps decided) how that was played. But I will inquire with the TO of the BAO.
Hey Reece, so what do you think? Will 1 unit made scoring from 1 mission objective be able to pick up/claim objectives from another mission objective?
Gargoyles then catch my dreadknight in a Sweeping Advance. Noooooo! He remains locked in combat.
I might be missing something obvious here, but if he was caught in a sweeping advance, shouldn't the dreadknight have been removed as a casualty?
Valek wrote: And they shall know no fear means they get caught...
and fight on... most op rule in the game that and rallying and actually moving more than allowed...
Right. ATSKNF has become just so much better in this edition, especially now that you can still regroup even if there is an enemy unit with 6". Combine it with Combat Tactics and it just becomes sick (for vanilla marines)!
DarthDiggler wrote: Ohhhh.. Top of turn 3 and it doesn't look good for the grey knights. Both Dreadknights look to be going down and the toughness 8 Tervigon is about to grab the Relic. The rest of the GK list is tied up behind the ADL.
Yeah, Kevin turned the tables on me. He had his eyes on the prize. Even though his ymgarls and genestealers didn't do much in this game, tactically, they were huge as they forced me to play much more defensively than I normally did.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
rigeld2 wrote: End of turn 4 I think you've got it jy2. There's no way that Tervigon will survive another round against the Deathknight.
With you taking First Blood and Slay the Warlord you'll win 5-4.
You will find out soon enough.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/01/06 15:34:45
Grey Knight seem more competitive than credited, and tbh JY2 i know you are not a great fan of the Dreadknights, but they do make the game, never been dissapointed by one.
The thing is that they can kill anything and your opponent needs to plan for them, even without teleporters, Monstrous S10 creatures with 2+/5++ is unmatched by any codex, not even talking about that fun incinerator and stuff.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/01/06 19:16:43
You have ruled this galaxy for ten thousand years
Yet have little of account to show for your efforts
Order. Unity. Obedience.
We taught the galaxy these things
And we shall do so again.
4500 pts
2013/01/06 20:00:16
Subject: Happy New Year! Grey Knights vs Janthkin's Tyranids - BAO Match (on p.2, Completed)
I thought objectives had to be placed on the ground level?
Aside from that one question good game fellas! I was hoping that tervigon could survive but oh well. Considering how devastating the tervigon has become I am surprised I haven't seen a list with three of them in it yet
Not only a moral victory, but bugs actually had a very good and real chance to take this game. There was 1 main game-changer IMO and that was the Swarmlord failing to kill my dreadknight with Halluctination. He had a good chance to do so also. Had Hallucination taken out my dreadknight, I would have nothing that could have killed his tervigon and bugs could have very easily won this one.
Valek wrote: Grey Knight seem more competitive than credited, and tbh JY2 i know you are not a great fan of the Dreadknights, but they do make the game, never been dissapointed by one.
The thing is that they can kill anything and your opponent needs to plan for them, even without teleporters, Monstrous S10 creatures with 2+/5++ is unmatched by any codex, not even talking about that fun incinerator and stuff.
I feel that striker-spam is actually a very good GK build currently. It can dominate most armies and if it were any general other than Janthkin, I might have won this game much earlier. I like and know that the dreadknights are very good now. However, my main concern is that they can't really do anything to flyers. That is the only thing holding me back from using them full-time in my TACGK list (also, the psyflemans give me a better chance at getting First Blood against mech/semi-mech armies). However, I'm sure I'll warm up to them after a few more games. Just like I've replaced the Swarmlord in my tyranid army with dual flyrants, I do see the potential for dreadknights to completely replace my dreadnoughts in my GK army as well.
Red Corsair wrote: I thought objectives had to be placed on the ground level?
Aside from that one question good game fellas! I was hoping that tervigon could survive but oh well. Considering how devastating the tervigon has become I am surprised I haven't seen a list with three of them in it yet
I bet janthkin wishes he took biovores now?
The only restrictions with regards to objectives is that you cannot place them within 6" of the board edge, within 12" of another objective or on top of impassable terrain, a building or fortifications. There are no restrictions on being able to place them on top of ruins.
I was surprised I killed his other tervigon (in his deployment zone) as well. It had only taken 1, maybe 2 Wounds at that point and had FNP as well, but my opponent couldn't make his saves/FNP when it counted.
Biovores would have helped in this game, but honestly, if not for his genestealers and ymgarls, he would not have been able to almost steal this victory from me. That is one of their hidden strengths. Not only can stealers and ymgarls kill you directly, but indirectly they can and will screw with your strategy.
Yeas striker army is the way to go, will give it whirl this week in our weekly match!
You have ruled this galaxy for ten thousand years
Yet have little of account to show for your efforts
Order. Unity. Obedience.
We taught the galaxy these things
And we shall do so again.
4500 pts
2013/01/08 20:14:06
Subject: Happy New Year! Grey Knights vs Janthkin's Tyranids - BAO Match (on p.2, Completed)
Great game. I am of the opinion that despite BAO runs 2 missions at the same time, the win conditions of those missions should still remain separate. It seems a little bit off that the dreadknight was able to claim a relic VP and secure a win when they were only scoring and VPs towards the big guns mission. Especially since the relic is a different kind of mission where if the objective is held at end of game it cannot be contested unlike other missions. Overall it was a great batrep and bloodbath to match but I would have ruled against the ending.
Reecius should pay attention to this one, I'd like to see how he would rule it.
Congrats GKs, bring on more reports jy2!
Been out of the game for awhile, trying to find time to get back into it.
2013/01/10 04:39:18
Subject: Happy New Year! Grey Knights vs Janthkin's Tyranids - BAO Match (on p.2, Completed)
I'm assuming your using the Heavy Metal rule, does it apply for just the Big Guns objectives, or both the Objectives and the Relic?
tetrisphreak wrote: Great game. I am of the opinion that despite BAO runs 2 missions at the same time, the win conditions of those missions should still remain separate. It seems a little bit off that the dreadknight was able to claim a relic VP and secure a win when they were only scoring and VPs towards the big guns mission. Especially since the relic is a different kind of mission where if the objective is held at end of game it cannot be contested unlike other missions. Overall it was a great batrep and bloodbath to match but I would have ruled against the ending.
Reecius should pay attention to this one, I'd like to see how he would rule it.
Congrats GKs, bring on more reports jy2!
After talking to Reece, it appears that you guys are right. Each mission is entirely separate as are all their special rules. Thus, my dreadknight would have only been scoring for Big Gun objectives and not for the Relic. So I couldn't have just walked up to the Relic with him and pick it up.
However, here's how it would have most likely played out.
1. I kill his hive guards in combat (or break them) with S6 strikers and S8 Coteaz (due to 2x Hammerhands). Then next turn (I went 2nd), they walk up to the Relic and pick it up.
2. I shoot down his gants on his objective or at least kill enough to force Morale without synapse.
3. We then see if there will be a Turn 7.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Valek wrote: Yeas striker army is the way to go, will give it whirl this week in our weekly match!
Good luck and have fun. Remember, the key is to be constantly advancing and shooting. Combat squad in objectives games and prepare to deepstrike perhaps 1 or even 2 units if you have to.
Yeah, it turned out to be much closer than I thought. It was looking like a blowout at first, but my opponent made it a nail-biter. It is always a challenging game everytime I go up against Janthkin, and I would like to think that he probably feels that way about me as well.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/01/10 04:42:23
to wound. 
Then the gargoyles, who are about 5" away, make the charge. I then Overwatch with my dreadknight, killing 2. Now he is about 7" away and proceeds to roll a 6 on his charge distance. Another failed charge! So my strategy to leave my dreadknight in area terrain paid off big time!
.....Bay Area Open GT 2013 - Best Tyranids 
.....LVO GT 2014 Team Tournament - Best Generals
