Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

something about 40k has never quite jived with me: the game runs on rule of cool, yet I see little shotguns, and I haven't seen any shotguns that fire templates instead of solid shot. thus I have sought to rectify this with a custom unit for my orks, here's the stats:
TROOPS:
Lead-thrower ork unit........ 10pts per model
Boy: WS=4, BS=2, S=3, T=4, W=1, I=2, A=2, LD=7, SV=6+
Nob: WS=4, BS=2, S=3, T=4, W=1, I=2, A=2, LD=7, SV=6+

unit composition: 5-15 boyz
unit type: infantry
Wargear: Lead-throwa shotgun
special rules: furious charge, mob rule, waaagh!
transport: mobs of 12 or less may take a trukk as a dedicated transport.

options:
one boy may be upgraded to a nob for +10 points
he may replace his shotgun with one of the following: big choppa and slugga for +5 points, or power klaw and slugga for +25 points.
he may take any of the following upgrades: bosspole for +5 points, 'eavy armor for +5 points.

unique wargear:
Lead-Throwa shotgun: range= template, strength=4, AP= 6, type= assault 1

this unit presents a very interesting situation for an opponent: if they charge the unit they will be hit hard on over-watch, but unless they are charged they will not do much, and will hold objectives quite well. it is a classic hawk and dove game theory game. I'll post a picture of the models for the unit as soon as I have them done. so any opinions on this unit?

10 points for a flamer type weapon or 20 points for a nob with a flamer. Seems a bit cheap for what they are equipped with.

And shotguns don't work like that. If anything it would be 18" range assualt 1, and increases BS+1 to represent that even Orks have an easier time aiming.

Maybe it should work just like how every other shotgun works in game? I think you need a different weapon type than something which has several different kinds in game with a very set kind of rule (12", Assault 2, etc). It just seems odd to use a weapon which has set rules with completely different ones.

Maybe I'm using the wrong term when I say shotgun, what I really mean is more a blunderbuss. A short range weapon that basically spews mounds of whatever scrap is avalble.

I figured that was the case, I reckon 'lead-throwa' is enough of a name without the 'shotgun' bit. I also think that S4 is a bit much, since it is just random stuff, I reckon S3 is plenty, and it'll still make overwatch a b**** to survive. I also have <0 experience with the Ork codex, so I can't judge if it is unfairly priced as a unit.

Whats with the nob? Shouldn't he have the standard nob profile, or do you think that would be to much?

 Shadox wrote:
Whats with the nob? Shouldn't he have the standard nob profile, or do you think that would be to much?

That is a good point, I didn't even think of that. You should make it standard.

It seems to me like you've just created the prototype for Burna Boys. But yeah even a blunderbuss wouldn't work as a template, it would just be extremely short range and always hit on, say, a 3+, maybe even 2+.

I love this idea! For ages i've trying to think outside the box and this one does it for me! Infact I love it so much it's going to be put as one of the units in our campaign weekend, i'll tweak it abit as it's an Armageddon event and they'll rape guard too easy.

But thanks! You're welcome to see the final product when it's finished and in a capamign pack :] it'll be on the site my sig links too.

Have you seen the movie Looper?

Why don't you use something like that for the Blunderbuss, Hits on a 2+ at 6" and anything above on normal Ballistic skill? Which would fit nicely, as you can't really miss at close range, yet its almost impossible to hit at long range, especially with an ork firing it.

And then maybe give them an Overwatch(D3) like template weapons, which would represent you really can't miss with one, if someone is running close towards you.

 Shadox wrote:
Whats with the nob? Shouldn't he have the standard nob profile, or do you think that would be to much?

ops sorry that was a typo, it does have the standard nob profile, my bad.

also this is supposed to be a poor man's burna boyz, they are basically burnas without the ability to use it as a power weapon. also I could see reducing the Lead Throwas to S3. but one of the big reasons I made this unit is because it makes you and your opponent think. it's not a close combat unit, it's not a shooting unit, so what is it? that's for the players to explore the possibilities.

also I haven't seen Looper, but if you have a picture of the weapon that could be useful to make the minis,

Just google image search blunderbuss looper, I just did it and there are plenty of good pictures, I'm on a phone though so too much hassle to try and link you up sorry.

4 points for a flamer is cheap. 4 points for a flamer for each and every model in a troops unit is just way too cheap.

You just took burnas, reduced their AP by 1 (5->6, a minor change) and decreased their cost by 33% and moved them to troops. That's neither innovative nor balanced.

 Macok wrote:
4 points for a flamer is cheap. 4 points for a flamer for each and every model in a troops unit is just way too cheap.

You just took burnas, reduced their AP by 1 (5->6, a minor change) and decreased their cost by 33% and moved them to troops. That's neither innovative nor balanced.

Quite right sir, that's why I posted them here for review. So that even if they are not innovative, they can at least be balanced. So let's say we reduce the weapon strength to 3 what do you think a fair price would be for them?

couldnt you just use burna boys at the same deal? with count as shot gun rules?

@cormadepanda You mean just give Burna Boyz a different weapon option? Wouldnt fit the fluff :

I think for the shotgun "lead throwa" : Str 3 AP6 Assault 2 range 18 or something would be a nice weapon. I think it would be cool to see an Ork with a double barrel type blasting weapon.

I'd suggest thus:

Lead-throwa: R:12" S:3 AP:- Assault 2, Inaccurate

Inaccurate: Any shot made at above half the weapon's maximum range must be resolved as a Snap Shot.

Shas'o_Longshot wrote:
I'd suggest thus:

Lead-throwa: R:12" S:3 AP:- Assault 2, Inaccurate

Inaccurate: Any shot made at above half the weapon's maximum range must be resolved as a Snap Shot.

I agree that those are pretty accurate rules for a blunderbuss/shotgun. That said, I can't imagine why anybody would make a unit filled with these weapons.

I guess the real issue is you can run it in two ways. If you want to run it as a template, you should give it a drawback since templates are a special weapon and got really good thanks to overwatch. Make it so the unit can't fire over watch, maybe make it S2 since it's all just bits crammed down the muzzle, and/or give it "Gets Hot".

or make a new special weapon/heavy weapon and limited numbers. But an entire squad is a bit much.

 cox.dan2 wrote:
I think for the shotgun "lead throwa" : Str 3 AP6 Assault 2 range 18 or something would be a nice weapon. I think it would be cool to see an Ork with a double barrel type blasting weapon.

i would reduced the said price then, a shoota being range 18 str 4 ap 6 at a cost of six points

How about

Lead Chuka -
Strength 4
AP -
range: 18"
small blast, assault 1

Special Rules: Wonder Ammo - A ork loves his loud banging clanking gun next to any kannon, and the Lead chuka is a bit a both. Thanks to its simple design the weapon can literally fire anything that fits. As a result orks have popularly loaded their gun with wonder ammo.

Roll d3 to see what effect the round has this firing time:
1-2: Blasta Round - the round ignores cover
3-4: Burna Round - the round wounds on a 2+ regardless of toughness
5-6: Krumpa Round - the round has AP4

Make them cost 15 pts each with the gun and make them have a nob Hq who take a modified Lead Chucka with same chart, but assault 2.

it seems fairish basing them around on codex like space wolves, and grey knights.

I'd give the 3-4 the poisoned 4+ as opposed to fleshbane. An entire squad of these would take forever just to roll, not even touching the balance issue. Limit it to 2 per squad plus the nob.

Some flamers are only 4pts ( tau xv8) so they're fairly priced I think

quack98 wrote:
Some flamers are only 4pts ( tau xv8) so they're fairly priced I think

They are cheap because on a Tau XV8 once you are in flamer range with your suit the suit is probably dead anyways. On an Ork once you are in flamer range, the fun is just about to get started, and extra crispy for good measure.

i like the idea you could do some cool converted models and then count em as burna boys...

Sounds like a cool idea, but how about throwing in a rule that says that the Lead throwa might miss fire or something like that. Since we are talking about Orks after all and even the best Meks makes stuff that has one or more flaws that backfires half of the time.

 SneakyMek wrote:
Sounds like a cool idea, but how about throwing in a rule that says that the Lead throwa might miss fire or something like that. Since we are talking about Orks after all and even the best Meks makes stuff that has one or more flaws that backfires half of the time.

They could get hot, that'd probably balance them, as 5-15 flamers is horrible, but when they get hot you'll be killing a few orks a turn!

Just out of interest, flamers can be fired from open topped transport, like the trukk, so won't this gun be a bit powerful