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Say you have a khorne lord and a MoT sorceror lord i know they cant join a unit with a conflicting mark but if you have a unmarked squad can they both join it since the squad doesnt conflict just the other Char.

In case that was confusing heres a example

MoT Sorceror
MoK Chaos lord
both joining Unmarked Squad

the unit has no mark, therefore there are no restrictions on who can join.

However, a MoK lord couldn't join a Lord with the MoT(as in 2 ICs joining each other) as the unit being joined would have a different mark.

So they could both join the same unmarked unit or no? sorry wording kind've confused me.

 Overlord Zerrtin wrote:
So they could both join the same unmarked unit or no? sorry wording kind've confused me.

They can join an unmarked unit, as the unit itself has no mark, only the other IC, but if the two IC's tried to partner up, they couldn't as in that instance the other IC is a unit with a different mark.

Wow, I really hadn't thought of the rules in that way, but I think that is a correct reading of the rules. However I could certainly see how that might be addressed in a future FAQ for Chaos Marines, Kharn joining some Cultists with Ahriman just doesn't seem very fluffy. I'm almost too superstitious to do that, as I think Kharn might roll all 1s and just end up killing Cultists!

That's also a great way to beef up Abbadon a little bit, put him with some unMarked Terminators, and another IC with some shooty psychic powers, maybe even Typhus would be good, and deepstrike them behind enemy lines.

well what my plan was is a bike squad with a jugger lord and and sorceror on bike following begind with mastery lvl 2 hope fully getting doombolt and gift of change so he can shoot the ray and buff the jugger eventually just letting the jugger run off by itself to thrash some stuff while the sorceror takes the bike squad for some shooting.

 Lord Harrab wrote:

 Overlord Zerrtin wrote:
So they could both join the same unmarked unit or no? sorry wording kind've confused me.

They can join an unmarked unit, as the unit itself has no mark, only the other IC, but if the two IC's tried to partner up, they couldn't as in that instance the other IC is a unit with a different mark.

Two HQs with different marks cannot join an unmarked unit together, it's just one or the other. When joined an IC is a part of the unit. Adding another IC would cause problems as the unit would have a different mark because the other IC, being a part of the unit being joined, has a different mark.

The way the rules are worded means that mixed marks can never happen, even with Abbadon.

Character K (Khorne mark) joins Unit U (unmarked) = Legal. The rules ask if the unit has a different mark than the character.
Character T (Tzeentch mark) joins Unit U (unmarked) = Legal. The rules ask if the UNIT has a different mark. The presence of another character does not pertain.

The real question is if they both join the unmarked unit and all the unit members die. So you end up with a MoT and MoK joined together.

Im guessing as of the point of the squad dying they are just seperated because they cant be joined together.

I agree that they'd be forced to separate at the first opportunity.

No, it says they cannot JOIN, not tha tthey cannot remain joined.

I thought you could only roll half your powers from the lore? So you couldnt get gift and doom unless you are ML3

On reflection, Nos, I think I agree. It feels weird, but is probably legit.

oh in that case id probably just have him be ML1.

 Mannahnin wrote:
Character K (Khorne mark) joins Unit U (unmarked) = Legal. The rules ask if the unit has a different mark than the character.
Character T (Tzeentch mark) joins Unit U (unmarked) = Legal. The rules ask if the UNIT has a different mark. The presence of another character does not pertain.

Why not?

Doesn't the unit, that Character K is a normal member of after he joins, have the Mark of Khorne by virtue of one member of said unit having the Mark of Khorne? or no?

How do we determine if a unit has a Mark do all members need to have the mark, just one? how is this determined, because I can not find any guidance within the rules for such a situation.

Any help is appreciated.

Ty in advance.

I don't think the presence of one model with a special rule is equivalent to the whole unit having the special rule, especially when it's a rule which does not directly benefit the other members. It's not like we're talking about ATSKNF, say.

 Mannahnin wrote:
I don't think the presence of one model with a special rule is equivalent to the whole unit having the special rule, especially when it's a rule which does not directly benefit the other members. It's not like we're talking about ATSKNF, say.

So the same would apply for Defensive grenades?

"Models charging units equipped with defensive grenades do not gain bonus Attacks from charging (see page 24)." P. 62

If you had an IC attached to a unit, and only the IC had defensive grenades would the attacking unit lose their bonus Attacks from charging, or would they keep them?

Not equivalent. Some special rules or wargear do specifically apply to/benefit the entire unit if one member has them. Defensive Grenades and ATSKNF are two examples.

None of the benefits granted by the Marks do.

 Mannahnin wrote:
Not equivalent. Some special rules or wargear do specifically apply to/benefit the entire unit if one member has them. Defensive Grenades and ATSKNF are two examples.

Where does it specifically say that defensive grenades "specifically apply to/benefit the entire unit if one member has them. "?

It is not in the defensive grenades rules.

My mistake; it doesn't say. Which leaves it ambiguous whether one model makes the unit count as being equipped with Defensive Grenades.

Surely, from a 'religious' stand point, you follow one god? How could a chaos marine follow Khorne and Tzeench? Surely the gods would become angry at the double betrayal?

This is 40k the gods dont care about you so long as when the time comes you honor your bargains with them even then some marines might have say "Friends" from another chaos warband or is aquainted through some mission its not as if they're completely segregated.

Ummm, the idea that you follow one god and one god only has no standing based on the fluff, why I recall in the 3rd edition Chaos Codex the Word Bearers were described as worshipping all 4 Chaos Gods equally, and they would be some of the most zealous Chaos worshippers out there.

The presence of an IC doesn't change the marking on a squad of unmarked individuals...

otherwise people could be taking regular CSM and just putting Kharn in their squads turning them into cheaper version of Zerkers with the same effects without having to buy the said Mark for each individual model...

Multiple lords with different marks CAN join the same unit so long as the unit is unmarked. The wording specifically states that the UNIT cannot have a different mark as an IC joining it, however since the unit doesn't have a mark, (Because the IC joining it doesnt naturally give the unit he's in, his mark) multiple ICs can join said unmarked unit.

Agree that you could attach two differently marked units to an unmarked unit. (RAW)

There could be a situation where the unmarked unit is destroyed while the two (or more) attached characters are not destroyed. Since they can't join each other, I would say the codex rule prevents them from being joined as a unit of IC's and would have to revert back to separate units.

Where this could come up: Typhus and Tzeentch sorcerer (w/ Sigel for 3++ fun) join up with a large block of unmarked cultist and think it's a good idea to take on some Grey hunters with Arjak. Eventually they come together in combat with the cultist blob charging the Wolfs (the cultist unit had previously lost their champion from early shooting). The chaos player knows that Arjak will probably flatten Typhus, so he has the Sorcerer try his luck at being a tank in the ‘forced challenge’.

CC results – SW pop their banner and the cultist are all cut down (let’s say 15 models) at I4 from the Grey Hunter before Typhus cuts down the regular troops (let’s say 8 models). Arjak and Mr. Magic both are too cool to hurt each other with 3++. Now we have the weird situation, more so in CC. Since the chaos side lost combat by 7, it’s LD time. Normally Typhus’s fearless would prevent the Sorcerer from breaking, but as the codex says they can’t join up, I would break them up immediately. The sorcerer would have to take an LD at -7 to stay, Typhus would auto stay.

Thoughts on interpretation?

Well if one model has a mark, and that model is a normal member of the unit he has joined, why does the unit count as not having a mark, when there is a model with a mark within said unit?

Using the original posters case (not the one I used above)
***
MoT Sorceror
MoK Chaos lord
both joining Unmarked Squad
***

Reaper, I guess I don’t follow you. If a normal model in a unit is marked, they count as Marked. I’m not talking attached IC’s here, just normal unit. Having an IC attached to a unit doesn’t bestow the marks ability to the attached squad.

I have to agree with DR here. A normal member of the unit has a mark, ergo the unit has a mark, therefore a different marked IC cannot join. However, in a friendly game, I'd allow it.

 Chubs wrote:
Using the original posters case (not the one I used above)
***
MoT Sorceror
MoK Chaos lord
both joining Unmarked Squad
***

Reaper, I guess I don’t follow you. If a normal model in a unit is marked, they count as Marked. I’m not talking attached IC’s here, just normal unit. Having an IC attached to a unit doesn’t bestow the marks ability to the attached squad.

I know it does not bestow the abilities to the squad, but the IC becomes a member of the squad once he joins them.

"While an Independent Character is part of a unit, he counts as part of the unit for all rules purposes, though he still follows the rules for characters." P. 39

but he counts as part of the unit for all rules purposes, so he has a mark is the unit considered to have a mark, since the IC has a mark and he "counts as part of the unit for all rules purposes" ?

I guess it boils down to: How many members of a unit have to have a rule before we consider the unit to have the rule?

How about if you joined them simultaneously? There is no requirement for joining at deployment to be sequential, that I can remember.

That way the unit does not have a mark, as no member of it does. So no prohibition exists

Chubs - try again; this has already been answered. The rule only prohibits joining, not remaining joined, as I had already posted. Find a rule that states that a chaos character ALREADY JOINED must split. There isnt one.