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I played a lot of 5th edition but have taken a hiatus from gaming on account of relocating to an area with no gamers. I played a game last weekend...first game of 6th edition. Opponent's list wasn't really optimized at all. I ran something similar to what I did in 5th. Please let me know if these two lists are appropriate for 5th, and what you would change. I've got tons of time to paint and model and zero time to play, so list building is pretty much the extent of my involvement in the hobby at this point...

I don't weight out individual costs point-wise, but I wanted to give you an idea of how much weight each of these sections is receiving.

Here goes...

1500 pt List

HQ - 145

CCS w/ 4 Melta Guns in a Chimera

Troops - 565

Vets w/ 3x Plasma Guns in a Chimera
Vets w/ 3x Plasma Guns in a Chimera

PCS w/ 4x Flamers in a Chimera

IS w/ Autocannon
IS w/ Autocannon

Fast Attack - 260

Vendetta
Vendetta

Hvy Support 530

Manticore
Manticore

LR Executioner w/ Heavy Bolter sponsons


1,850 pt List

HQ - 165

CCS w/ 3x Melta Guns + Astropath in a Chimera

Troops - 550

Vets w/ 3x Melta Guns in a Chimera

Vets w/ 3x Plasma Guns in a Chimera

PCS w/ 4x Flamers in a Chimera

IS w/ Autocannon
IS w/ Autocannon

Fast Attack - 260

Vendetta
Vendetta

Heavy Support - 705

Russ Squadron:
LR Executioner w/ Heavy Bolter sponsons
LR Exterminator w/ Heavy Bolter sponsons

Manticore

LR Demolisher

Elites - 170

Marbo

Storm Troopers w/ 2x Melta Guns






The 1500 point list seems pretty good. The changes I was considering at 1850 involved fudging the Russes around to swap out for a Devil Dog squadron, and dropping the Elites for a squad of Plasma Vets. I don't really know though how worthwhile Mech Vets are, in 6th ed. Thoughts? Comments?

I used to run an all reserve IG list that unfortunately was made impossible with 6th edition, so the Storm Troopers are really a hold over from that. I like them though, as my AV14-killing power at 1850 is a bit weaker without the second Manticore.

1500pts loot pretty good, not much to say other than HB sponsons on a executioner? Seems they wouldnt penetrate the targets armour often.

1850pts, I dont like the squadron with the exterminator and executioner. I would probably drop the sponsons on both and upgrade the exterminator to an executioner. This would mean you could leave the storm troopers as deep striking the meltas is still just a nice as it was in 5th. I would not go with the devil dogs, if anything and you wanted to fudge the russes, I'd loose the exterminator and take another vendetta. Fliers are the new power in 6th seeing as you can only hit them on 6s unless you've got skyfire... which virtually nothing does.

Both of these are mech lists which are fine in 6th, but through both of them I notice 2 squads without chimeras and just autocannons. I guess they're for camping at home but it might be nice trying to scratch up 50pts for an ADL which would make them way more durable. (28" of 4+ cover save and go to ground for 2+ fyi)

 rahxephon wrote:
1500pts loot pretty good, not much to say other than HB sponsons on a executioner? Seems they wouldnt penetrate the targets armour often.

1850pts, I dont like the squadron with the exterminator and executioner. I would probably drop the sponsons on both and upgrade the exterminator to an executioner. This would mean you could leave the storm troopers as deep striking the meltas is still just a nice as it was in 5th. I would not go with the devil dogs, if anything and you wanted to fudge the russes, I'd loose the exterminator and take another vendetta. Fliers are the new power in 6th seeing as you can only hit them on 6s unless you've got skyfire... which virtually nothing does.

Both of these are mech lists which are fine in 6th, but through both of them I notice 2 squads without chimeras and just autocannons. I guess they're for camping at home but it might be nice trying to scratch up 50pts for an ADL which would make them way more durable. (28" of 4+ cover save and go to ground for 2+ fyi)

The idea with the Heavy Bolters on the Executioner is that they soak up Weapon Destroyed results and since the Plasma Cannon isn't ordnance, you can hose bullets with all of the weapons on it.

I agree an ADL would be really useful. If I went ADL, I'd definitely add a Quad Autocannon to it. 50 points for something like that is absolutely worth it IMO.

Yeah, these don't look too bad. At 1850 points, though, having only that few troops models is going to be a rather serious setback unless you really know what you're doing. There are more objectives games in 6th than there were in 5th.

I agree that the russ squadron isn't great. I'd drop something in your HS slots in favor of another mechvet squad, and more, better guns crammed in those places you still have slots for them.

 Ailaros wrote:
Yeah, these don't look too bad. At 1850 points, though, having only that few troops models is going to be a rather serious setback unless you really know what you're doing. There are more objectives games in 6th than there were in 5th.

I agree that the russ squadron isn't great. I'd drop something in your HS slots in favor of another mechvet squad, and more, better guns crammed in those places you still have slots for them.

Agreed Ailaros...in 5th I'd usually run 2 Manticores and 2-3 Hydras at 1850, a Powerblob, melta CCS and PCS, then Al Rahem Meched with 2 IS all in Chimeras. Not being about to go full reserves really cut the balls off of that army so it's back to the drawing board.

Assuming I wanted a leaner HS section with at least 2 Russes and a Manticore, what do you suggest? I feel like the Plasma Bus is dead due to Gets Hot so that's why I figured the Executioner w/ bolters would be good. Demolishers work OK without sponsons. Thoughts?



What if it looked like:

Manticore: 160

Executioner: 190

2x Exterminators w/ Heavy Bolters: 340


15 points cheaper would let me put some flamers in those IS to help with Overwatch. Meh. I think I'm trying to make something work where it clearly shouldn't.

For the infantry, how about:

Melta Vets: 100
Melta Vets: 100

(these guys hang out in the Vendettas)

Saves me 110 points + the 15 left over from HS + 15 for Melta <- Plasma...140 points...now drop the Storm Troopers since I've got drop-melta giving 245 points - Another couple Infantry Squads with Autocannons and Plasma Guns for all of the Infantry Squads?

It'd give me more bodies. The only problem is that, where I had 4 Chimeras before, now I've got 2. Not even close to enough saturation and 4 was pushing it...

I still like the storm trooper meltas. With meltavets in a vendetta it can make them quite hot, and then you have to put your vendetta up close to deploy them. I'm not so sure about the LR exterminator. They're ok but I feel that autocannons are so abundant in the IG codex every where else. Unless your expecting fliers and hope the TL will help hit them, but the vendettas could deal to those better anyway. I noticed that initially there was a demolisher lurking in there.

So what about:
Demolisher
Demolisher
Manticore
Manticore
5 Storm troopers - meltaguns
5 Storm troopers - meltaguns

And change other melta vets squad to plasma vets. And give CCS plasma as well. I think this is less points that what you've currently got so could look at putting another squad into your platoon, and/or adding lascannons to them or another plasma bus.
Then you've got a mass of S10 pie plates. So you've got manticores shedding hull points off from afar and vendettas finishing off + demolishers... well demolishing stuff. I find the 'plasma bus' nice as yes some will die but a plasma vet is 22pts. A terminator's 40pts so fair trade in my book.
In terms of overwatching flamers are okay, but if its MEQs charging you, they wont make a difference.

+1 to everything above.

I total agree with running Plamsa on the Vets and Melta on the Troopers. If you have Plasma on all the Vets and CCS it gives you decent reach as well and all your squads are effective from 24" away, where as if you take meltas you need to get within 6" to be of use so if your only feilding one or two squads they will be the first to die. Plasma Vets are your Bread and Butter in a mech list so use them to your advantage

If you run a squad or two of drop meltas they won't die until they do there job or mishap and die in blaze of glory.

I'm definatly finding my Manticores the best at striping off early Hull points and the Vendettas as a finish off unit. The Manticores are also good at getting rid of T-shirt save guys behind Agies lines which I'm finding more and more common these days.

OK taken into consideration. I'd like to add an ADL and shuffle some things around. At 1850 it gives us:

HQ

CCS w/ 4 Plasma Guns in Chimera w/ Astropath: 195

Troops

Vets w/ 3x Plasma Guns in Chimera: 170
Vets w/ 3x Plasma Guns in Chimera: 170

PCS w/ Autocannon and Melta Bombs on Plt. Commander: 45 (These guys man the Quad Cannon...Pl. Commander is BS4)
IS w/ Autocannon: 60
IS w/ Autocannon: 60
IS w/ Autocannon: 60

Heavy Support

Executioner w/ Heavy Bolters: 210

Executioner: 190

Manticore: 160

Fast Attack

Vendetta: 130
Vendetta: 130

Elites

Marbo: 65

Storm Troopers w/ 2x Melta Guns: 105

Fortifications

ADL w/ Quad Cannon: 100



This gives me 10 more infantry bodies and a nice defense line for all of the Infantry to hide behind, plus some nice 4+ cover for the Manticore. Basically it just makes the bubble wrap a little harder. It also spreads around the Plasma love a little bit.

The old 1850 list had 20 guys walking, 3 Russes, a Manticore, 4 Chimeras with Special Weapons guys inside, and that was it for stuff showing up on the field. This list loses a Russ and a Chimera but gains 15 walking bodies and gives a greater concentration of Plasma and, arguably, better Russes.

Solid stuff. I'd personally rather see the Stormtroopers as more Vets so they score (and get the extra special weapon). It's a small thing though. You could drop the Stormies, the Executioner sponsons and the Astropath for the 155 points to snag a Meltavet squad in a Chimera.

Twin Manticores look like loads of fun, btw.

For what it's worth, it doesn't matter if a Russ' weapon is ordinance. Vehicles no longer have to remain stationary to fire ordinance weapons (page 51), and heavy vehicles (Russes are heavy tanks according to the IG FAQ) count as stationary when firing weapons regardless of movement (though they can't go faster than combat speed and can't go all-out).

 plus1jeremy wrote:
Solid stuff. I'd personally rather see the Stormtroopers as more Vets so they score (and get the extra special weapon). It's a small thing though. You could drop the Stormies, the Executioner sponsons and the Astropath for the 155 points to snag a Meltavet squad in a Chimera.

Twin Manticores look like loads of fun, btw.

For what it's worth, it doesn't matter if a Russ' weapon is ordinance. Vehicles no longer have to remain stationary to fire ordinance weapons (page 51), and heavy vehicles (Russes are heavy tanks according to the IG FAQ) count as stationary when firing weapons regardless of movement (though they can't go faster than combat speed and can't go all-out).

Are you sure? My impression is that Russes with Ordnance turrets can only Snap Fire their other weapons...

Read Ordinance Weapons on page 51 carefully. All the restrictions are for non-vehicles. In 5th it was true that ordinance weapons meant you couldn't fire other weapons (and you had to stay stationary). It took me quite a while to see it, but in 6th ordinance weapons on vehicles might as well be heavy.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Correcting myself; it is Snap Fire with your other weapons. It's in the vehicles chapter, bottom of page 71. Still, the restriction on moving is gone now.

Reguardless of what kind of vehicle it is if you fire Ordnance weapons you can only snap fire other weapons even if stationary. Its under Ordnance in the rule book. That means that the Battle Tank and Demolisher can only snap fire there other weapons