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@Duncan - Your approach is counter-intuitive to getting more backers, remember how the hardcore Wyrd fans reacted to criticism on that KS project, it really didn't help.

Always stick to promoting the positives when you're a fan of something.

There's plenty of time left for this to recover, I've seen other KS projects that had negative daily totals at some points in the middle, but still managed to get funded thanks to a lot of effort put in by the creators causing a last-week surge.

It's just plain up to DSC whether it succeeds or fails at this point. They've got the advice loud and clear and have a fairly straightforward list of things they need to do (concept art for ALL miniatures being sold, and some greens).

It certainly seems like there are things the Dark Space Corp team could have done differently that would have made the Kickstarter more popular more quickly. From the comments on here, it seems like having more of the visual design (either finished artwork or model sculpts) would have gotten more people to back right away. They could have build the community on their forums for a while first, and got some figures sculpted slowly over time, and did the kickstarter later. They could have done a more modest kickstarter, to fund just the rules and maybe two factions, and added on other factions on the whole (likely expensive) online evolving universe component later. Who knows what would have worked best.

However interesting it may be to ponder these things, it is largely irrelevant. They did it the way they did it, and we now have the Kickstarter they created. We can't change that now, although the feedback can certainly influence what they do from here on out. For example, it sounds like they are focusing much more on getting some sculpts done as early as possible since it seems like that is what the holdouts are really waiting for.

At this point, we are just left to decide whether to back or not the Kickstarter they have. I have really good reason to believe I will like the rules, so I am backing because I want the rules to be created. Simple as that. I'm willing to pledge for some models, since I expect them to be good and appear to be a good deal. I can always lower my pledge later if they models they show don't look good. You could easily take the opposite approach of pledging only for the rules now, and upping your pledge later if you end up liking the models they show. Or, if you don't care much about rules and are only interested in new miniatures, which I'm sure a lot of miniature gamers are, I can see how you'd probably just wait until some miniatures are shown to even pledge at all. Since there seem to be a lot of such people, I think Dark Space Corp will make progress on the miniatures a higher priority.

Yeah, I am pledging because I have pretty much loved everything Rick Priestley has made. The minis to me are secondary (I already have huge forces of Copplestone troopers, Urban War Viridians, Pig Iron troopers; along with 1/48 armor and Antenociti vehicles and tanks). It's just a matter of finding a good ruleset for it all... Tomorrow's War didn't do it for me. I honestly have barely played any sci fi stuff, other than AT-43, in the last few years. That makes me really sad, because I started miniatures gaming with Space Hulk and 40k 2nd edition and loved loved loved it.

Let me put it his way: I had barely any interest in historicals - just a bit of Warhammer Ancient Battles - until Hail Caesar and Black Powder came out. Now I have a big Greek army for HC and I'm working on the Blenheim battle (WSS) for Black Powder. I have a giant (300 model) 28mm force of Parliamentarian New Model Army for the adapted Pike & Shotte rules. It was singlehandedly Rick's excellent rulesets that made me excited to game in historicals. I have no doubt in my mind that Rick will come through again and Gates of Antares will invigorate me with sci-fi the same way HC and BP did for historicals.

That alone is worth my 100-something gbp pledge, regardless of models.

 Alpharius wrote:
I agree!

Currently, this project is on a disturbing downward trend - and remember Zweischneid's statement that they'd need £5000 a day in order to hit their funding goal?

That number's gone UP since then!

And they're now projected to hit 90% of their goal, which is also a number that's been going down.

Clearly there's time to rectify all of this - but... not that much time!

They need to get moving, make some changes and show... something!

Looking over a lot of kicktraq, that is a common trend. Most projects receive a ton at the beginning, and a ton at the end.

Look at Pathfinder MMO, people were 100% sure it was going to fail...and BAM, the last 3 days hit. Success. The best part is Kicktraq still had it trending to failure when it had already succeeded.

I do think they need to show more, but they stated days ago that they are going to.

Hmm well I have been thinking since no one has brought it up but...

Just how connected is DSC is to Warlord? Is DSC receiving any funds/facilities from WL? I ask because it has been repeated that this KS seems to be staring a whole company so I'm wondering just how much of a company DSC is currently without the KS.

>That green IS Hansa.

Nowhere is this labelled on the kickstarter.l Or is if it is, I didn't see it.

> Well, the front page of the kickstarter was updated with Hansa's latest update, so I guess you haven't actually looked at the page for some time. If you're that opposed to the whole project, it's probably not for you, but if you ARE interested, AND you like the figure (which you sort of said you did) then maybe the £25 pledge would be the right spot for you - that way you get to help bring this project to life, you get the rules (which are hopefully going to be good) and you get a nice figure (that IS good).

> I haven't looked at the pages at all, just the kickstarer, as I suspect a lot of people are going to do. And judging by the kickstarter itself, this is woefully lacking in execution.

And "hopefully" the rules will be good? Well you know what they say, hope in one hand, gak in the other, see which fills up first.

 AlexHolker wrote:

 chris_valera wrote:
Everybody loves generic zombies and aliens.

I don't. What I want in my SF is characters to root for. Zombies and xenomorphs aren't much more than glorified animals, and presenting them as more of a threat than they have any right to be just drags everyone else down to their level of impotence.

There's a fan-made d20 Aliens supplement called Alians: Game Over that provides rules and stats, and going by what we know now, the Aliens are bio-engineered predators and are indeed quite dangerous. There are no shortage of zombie movies proving the same about zombies. Remember, this kickstarter is a rare opportunity to have plastic figures made. I believe the best figures, and the ones most likely to sell in bulk are plastic unit figures. And if you want cheap unit figures, which I do, zombies and aliens are where its at.

If you want sci-fi characters Hasslefree, Infnity, Alpha Forge, and to a lesser extent Reaper have you covered. If you want cheap unit figures, which I do, zombies and aliens are where its at.

 Alpharius wrote:
I agree!

Currently, this project is on a disturbing downward trend - and remember Zweischneid's statement that they'd need £5000 a day in order to hit their funding goal?

That number's gone UP since then!



And they're now projected to hit 90% of their goal, which is also a number that's been going down.

Yup. Shoulda gone with indiegogo, which lets you keep the cash, even if the target isn't reached.

 Alpharius wrote:
They need to get moving, make some changes and show... something!

I agree. I'm new to all this, but the time to show proof-of-concept was when the kickstarter first started.

--Chris
www.chrisvalera.com

 chris_valera wrote:
I agree. I'm new to all this, but the time to show proof-of-concept was when the kickstarter first started.

Yeah... they should have learned from Through the Breach (which I did support, not just ragging on it) that proof of concept at the beginning is way more exciting than concept in the middle-end...

 chris_valera wrote:

>That green IS Hansa.

Nowhere is this labelled on the kickstarter.l Or is if it is, I didn't see it.

It says 'Hansa' at the top of the picture, which is reasonably clear.

I haven't looked at the pages at all, just the kickstarer, as I suspect a lot of people are going to do. And judging by the kickstarter itself, this is woefully lacking in execution.

The green is placed on the kickstarter front page. Though if I were them, I'd put it right at the top, not halfway down.

 Charles Rampant wrote:

It says 'Hansa' at the top of the picture, which is reasonably clear.

I thought that was his race, or his unit type.

--Chris
www.chrisvalera.com

Bulldogging wrote:


Looking over a lot of kicktraq, that is a common trend. Most projects receive a ton at the beginning, and a ton at the end.

Look at Pathfinder MMO, people were 100% sure it was going to fail...and BAM, the last 3 days hit. Success. The best part is Kicktraq still had it trending to failure when it had already succeeded.

I do think they need to show more, but they stated days ago that they are going to.

There isn't a single post in this discussion that says this Kickstarter will fail because Kicktraq "says so".

Everyone is using Kicktraq to illustrate (!) the financial challenge they have to overcome, as people have done with Pathfinder. Pathfinder stepped up their game and succeeded. GoA can do likewise. Everyone here hopes they will do likewise.

But we use Kicktraq as a visualization of the issues at hand.

By claiming people use Kicktraq as a prediction, rather than a visualization, you are detracting from the critical issues that need to be addressed with this Kickstarter (symptoms of which can be visualized with Kicktraq) and ultimately hurting the GoA-Kickstarter by diverting attention from the critical issues everyone here posting Kicktraq stats has tried to communicate.

Was just trying to say, they'll probably do much better showing off several figures and trying to get a starter set funded, with a lower goal up front and expand upon it.. than ask for a big sum up front that makes the majority of potential customers think it's unattainable. Fund the idea for the first couple of factions vs fund the whole the universe.

 Necros wrote:
Was just trying to say, they'll probably do much better showing off several figures and trying to get a starter set funded, with a lower goal up front and expand upon it.. than ask for a big sum up front that makes the majority of potential customers think it's unattainable. Fund the idea for the first couple of factions vs fund the whole the universe.

Actually, I think they should've gone with several (!) Kickstarters to build a "whole universe" the way that McVey or Mantic Games are doing it.

Start with a smaller, more board-game-style game (Alabaster, DreadBall) that gives a first glimpse into the universe, as well as get people to buy into the universe with the first set of miniatures. Than, from that, expand, build and, eventually, do the "big" Kickstarter.

It's all the more puzzling because the GoA-team mentioned in several instances that they are looking forward to "smaller" Necromunda-style spin-offs and/or pen-and-paper roleplaying games.

I would've started with those up front.

Anyone else think this hamza mini is a rip off of solid snake or is it just me?Slap some hair on add and bobs your uncle.I only say this as it was the first thing that sprang to mind as soon as i saw it.

Well it's sci far armor with typically has the same theme to it (skin tight with armor plating and techie stuff) and he the was actually going for this look just sci-fied up.

Found it. Rectum, not anus. My mistake.

Also, one of my favorite illustrations of an alien, ever.

This whole rectum/alien episode really made me laugh, thanks judgedoug. I badly need to get hold of that rpg book.

My wife, sitting across the room, asked what I was laughing at, so I had to show her. She is not at all interested, but laughed her ass off anyway.

Fiore wrote:

Found it. Rectum, not anus. My mistake.

Also, one of my favorite illustrations of an alien, ever.

This whole rectum/alien episode really made me laugh, thanks judgedoug. I badly need to get hold of that rpg book.

My wife, sitting across the room, asked what I was laughing at, so I had to show her. She is not at all interested, but laughed her ass off anyway.

Glad to help. This should assist in your search: http://rpggeek.com/rpgitem/109201/space-infantry-rule-book
simply the most awful great amazing terrible RPG ever. Worth trying to nab a copy; every illustration is as good/bad if not better/worse as the one I posted. Good luck in your hunt!

When discussing GoA with some people I game with, I found it a pain to direct them to specific information...well the small amounts of existing information of course. The website and the forums both need a good bit of reorganizing.

Small example is that factions are actually under the species tab on the main website.

Speaking of info, Rules Update - Weapons and Armour is up now.

 Zweischneid wrote:


-snip-

I never said anyone was claiming failure of GoA due to Kicktraq, I was simply stating the interesting front and backend loads on fundraising in response to people quoting numbers. I apologize if I expressed it poorly, but I would request you send any further discussion on this through PM as to not derail the topic.

 judgedoug wrote:

Fiore wrote:

Found it. Rectum, not anus. My mistake.

Also, one of my favorite illustrations of an alien, ever.

This whole rectum/alien episode really made me laugh, thanks judgedoug. I badly need to get hold of that rpg book.

My wife, sitting across the room, asked what I was laughing at, so I had to show her. She is not at all interested, but laughed her ass off anyway.

Glad to help. This should assist in your search: http://rpggeek.com/rpgitem/109201/space-infantry-rule-book
simply the most awful great amazing terrible RPG ever. Worth trying to nab a copy; every illustration is as good/bad if not better/worse as the one I posted. Good luck in your hunt!

Yes! Thank you! I will begin my epic journey to owning this truly terrible masterpiece

I'm having fun over at the Gates of Antares official forums:

http://www.darkspacecorp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=445

They don't seem to be warming to me too much. I have that effect on people I guess they tapped into the sort rampant fanboyism GW enjoys, except there's no actual product, or even much information for this supposed kickstarter. So I don't know what they're getting all excited about. Rampant fanboyism, I guess.

But I do represent the "average" person; someone that stopped in, looked at the kickstarter and based on the lack of info decided it wasn't worth my time. Going by the fourms, there was even less there before. Rick and pals really should have been more prepared than they were. As one poster said, why should I pledge $100, when they weren't even willing to cough up $100 to produce a green?

I like the one poster who essentially said, "Oh, I guess he paid the money just to rant" as if we're not all going to have different opinions, and like that the kickstarter really isn't short on details. There's no getting through to these clowns.

I also like how my ideas for plastic zombies are dumb, when just a box of plastic zombie was one of the few kickstarters that succeeded, and going by (failing) kicktraq, this supposedly unique futuristic universe can't have them. No zombies and xenomorphs allowed you guys! Plastic zombies are also doing well for Wargames Factory, who made two boxes of them, as well as Mantic Games.

I am going to laugh so hard when this thing fething fails.

"Here we are / We sail on a ship made of dreams / Going fething nowhere..."

--Chris
www.chrisvalera.com

 chris_valera wrote:
I'm having fun over at the Gates of Antares official forums:

http://www.darkspacecorp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=445

They don't seem to be warming to me too much. I have that effect on people I guess they tapped into the sort rampant fanboyism GW enjoys, except there's no actual product, or even much information for this supposed kickstarter. So I don't know what they're getting all excited about. Rampant fanboyism, I guess.

But I do represent the "average" person; someone that stopped in, looked at the kickstarter and based on the lack of info decided it wasn't worth my time. Going by the fourms, there was even less there before. Rick and pals really should have been more prepared than they were. As one poster said, why should I pledge $100, when they weren't even willing to cough up $100 to produce a green?

I like the one poster who essentially said, "Oh, I guess he paid the money just to rant" as if we're not all going to have different opinions, and like that the kickstarter really isn't short on details. There's no getting through to these clowns.

I also like how my ideas for plastic zombies are dumb, when just a box of plastic zombie was one of the few kickstarters that succeeded, and going by (failing) kicktraq, this supposedly unique futuristic universe can't have them. No zombies and xenomorphs allowed you guys! Plastic zombies are also doing well for Wargames Factory, who made two boxes of them, as well as Mantic Games.

I am going to laugh so hard when this thing fething fails.

"Here we are / We sail on a ship made of dreams / Going fething nowhere..."

--Chris
www.chrisvalera.com

That kind of attitude might go some way to justify why people arent warming to you so much, alot of people want this project to succeed and are contributing in a constructive and helpful way. If you dont want to be a part of it then joining a forum to express negative opinions and start cursing over there isnt a constructive method. I respect the opinions of alot of the people in this thread both constructive and critical of the project, however your post is insulting to the supporters of the project and serves little/no purpose.

I just wish they would release a pic of one model from each faction. Not knowing if the models of a faction will actually appeal me is enough to keep my $100 in my wallet.

 BlueDagger wrote:
I just wish they would release a pic of one model from each faction. Not knowing if the models of a faction will actually appeal me is enough to keep my $100 in my wallet.

No kidding!

Same here, by the way.

I want this to succeed and I want to pledge, but so far, there isn't enough of anything that makes me hit "OK".

Seeing the wardrone greens will go some way into letting us know exactly what people will be getting (especially given that the drones make up a considerable % of higher value pledges), but it would be nice to get a feel for the various factions presented, alot of gamers invest based on aethetics without looking at rules/fluff (others dont, not saying everyones that same). I model/paint more than I play so the model choice available would define how much I invest.

Frankly, the latest update makes me a bit worried game-play wise too

STAT FORMAT

This is the basic stat format I am working with – I may need an extra column for special rule annotations but for now I’ve just made notes beneath each stat bloc.

Type of Weapon: Just that really!

Shoot: The number of shots – in some cases also the multiplier for blast weapons but we’ll come to them some other time. The number shown is the number of dice rolled and therefore the potentially number of hits that can be scored each time the weapon fires.

Range: The range bands in inches – it is generally easier to hit at effective range than at long or extreme range – but the actual modifiers vary depending upon the type of fire (Firefight, Range, Opportunity, Return).

Strike Value: The modifier applied to the target’s Resist roll to avoid taking damage from the hit – e.g. SV 1, Resist stat is at –1.

Why are they using "40K-style" multiplies of 6 for weapon ranges, when the whole system runs on a D10, not on a D6. I *cough* would've tried doing something more "organic" to the D10. Like modifies of -/+ 1 or 1D10 with each 10" or so.

Its from the makers of warhammer, they dont know anything else! (just ignore the books from warlord! )

And what else am I suppose to do with my 2 dozen or so red whip rulers

Why are they using "40K-style" multiplies of 6 for weapon ranges, when the whole system runs on a D10, not on a D6. I *cough* would've tried doing something more "organic" to the D10. Like modifies of -/+ 1 or 1D10 with each 10" or so.

That´s easy, many are used to multiples of 15cm/6inch and this makes it easier for them to adapt to the game. AT-43 did multiples of 10 but used the Universal Table and used D6 (Universal Table made D13 out of it). So there really does not need to be any connection between D and ranges. And when measured in cm it IS multiples/halves of 10.

Does anyone else see a resemblence to the film persona of Charles Bronson? (of british prison infamy)

Totally digging it.

> That kind of attitude might go some way to justify why people arent warming to you so much, alot of people want this project to succeed and are contributing in a constructive and helpful way. If you dont want to be a part of it then joining a forum to express negative opinions and start cursing over there isnt a constructive method. I respect the opinions of alot of the people in this thread both constructive and critical of the project, however your post is insulting to the supporters of the project and serves little/no purpose.

Yeah, but represent the average guy on the street. I've contributed to kickstarters in the past, and I *want* to like this kickstarter, but so far it's so poorly done and has so little information attached to it, I'm *really* not all that positive about it. Deal with it. A lot of people want this project to succeed is fine, but this "ship of dreams" fanboy attitude is very tiring, especially considering Rick and pals, couldn't be bothered to put in the initial legwork.

 BlueDagger wrote:
I just wish they would release a pic of one model from each faction. Not knowing if the models of a faction will actually appeal me is enough to keep my $100 in my wallet.

This. I wish they would, you know, put in a decent amount of effort, considering that they're you know, asking for money and all..

That "just fork over your fething cash" attitude we get from GW doesn't fly too far, out here in the real world.

 Alpharius wrote:

 BlueDagger wrote:
I just wish they would release a pic of one model from each faction. Not knowing if the models of a faction will actually appeal me is enough to keep my $100 in my wallet.

No kidding!

Same here, by the way.

I want this to succeed and I want to pledge, but so far, there isn't enough of anything that makes me hit "OK".

See, I'm not the only one. I'd like to get a new sci-fi game but there's just nothing here. 25 bucks for an LE figure and a digital rulebook (read: free) is a bit much

--Chris
www.chrisvalera.com

 kenshin620 wrote:
Hmm well I have been thinking since no one has brought it up but...

Just how connected is DSC is to Warlord? Is DSC receiving any funds/facilities from WL? I ask because it has been repeated that this KS seems to be staring a whole company so I'm wondering just how much of a company DSC is currently without the KS.

Rick Priestley is a major shareholder of warlord games so there is quite a tight link there. I imagine warlord will promote and distribute the game at the very least, and I would presume that they would fund it or supplement funding if the KS did not succeed (though that is 100% conjecture on my part).

 chris_valera wrote:
I'm having fun over at the Gates of Antares official forums:

http://www.darkspacecorp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=445

They don't seem to be warming to me too much. I have that effect on people I guess they tapped into the sort rampant fanboyism GW enjoys, except there's no actual product, or even much information for this supposed kickstarter. So I don't know what they're getting all excited about. Rampant fanboyism, I guess.

[...]

I am going to laugh so hard when this thing fething fails.

"Here we are / We sail on a ship made of dreams / Going fething nowhere..."

Do you feel that you are presenting a good image of yourself here? I can't say that I'm impressed by what I see.