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I know - sad thing is I am really enjoying 6th ed rules......thus far

I've been priced out for sure. I just finished my Ork army, and I was starting to look at building a similar sized army (About 3000 pts) of either CSM or DA, but sadly, the CSM were too Dragonzord for me, and now DA are looking to be way too expensive for me.

Yes, I know the argument, "You can build a smaller army" but what do you get in a "smaller" army? One list? No real options? I like to play games where I can bring many different builds to the table. Running Termie Spam till forever is not my idea of a fun game.
So, with that said, the money I had saved, and planned on spending on my new DA army is now about half what it would take to ACTUALLY build the army, and thus, I am priced out. Instead, I'll keep polishing up my Orks, and using a fraction of the cash I saved to buff up my home made terrain collection, and put the rest of the money towards something who's value is more in line with my expectations.

I may even pick up one of the Warmachine starters, which seem to me, to be a great value for a complete playable army.

No. I don't see too many "it's too expensive"/"not worth it" on the swedish boards either. Perhaps we're better off or just less whiney

Thats a lot of new stuff, I have never bought that much, new, at once in my life lol

 Rainbow Dash wrote:
Thats a lot of new stuff, I have never bought that much, new, at once in my life lol

Really? What fun would life be without the occasional shopping spree.

to me getting the most while spending the least is what gives me the "rush"
if its in good condition, then why should I care if its used

in the last 8 or so years I have spent just a bit over $1000 at GW
(and I collect alot, mostly trading once I got enough stuff and became bored with armies and wanted new ones, now, I've played them all-still a few in fantasy I've not)

Nice numbers... So far my Necrons or Orcs & Goblins don't seem (too much) affected, but if they do, I won't think twice before searching for another game system...

Ebay and online discounters for me...

Shotgun wrote:


My hobby is fine though. Switched to WWII historicals mostly. Nice thing about that is that a 15mm PzIVH will always be a 15mm PzIVH no matter the rules system. There are no PzIVH with alternate plasma gatling guns being created for any historical system out there.

We (wife and I) gotten into "generic" rule sets (ones that allow use of any minis you choose) and skirmish games. Weve gotten into 15mm a bit too. Ive made my own 15mm Armor game, only armor (tanks & LAVs) use any 15mm tank minis you like. A house favorite for us is Song of Blades & Heroes by Ganesha games...its fantasy skirmish. We also play some Heroscape, nice little system and prepainted minis are a nice change too. Should we ever get into 28mm army scale games I have Shockforce/Warengine. Also we just got our starters for Blackwater Gulch, and have Relic Knights on the way later in the year.

 Rainbow Dash wrote:
Thats a lot of new stuff, I have never bought that much, new, at once in my life lol

Once upon a time, many moons ago, Games Workshop used to have these magical things called "sales", where you would buy one product and get discounts on further products. I have not seen one in many a year, but back when they had them, I used to buy big. I bought an entire Tyranid army in one hit during one sale, in the same sale I saw one guy get 3 big megaforce boxes, it was a buy 2 get 1 free sale, so he bought 2 and got the third one free, about $600 of models for $400. In another sale I bought a regiment of Temple Guard, a unit of Salamanders and a unit of Kroxigor (not a lot of models, but they were all metal so rather expensive and I welcomed the discounts). At one sale there was literally a line out the door. You had to stand outside the door for 5-10 minutes to get in, then you just slowly worked your way clockwise around the store grabbing what you wanted before getting to the register and leaving the store, was pretty insane.

Thankfully guard aren't (too) expensive atm. But if the prices in the OP are anything to go by, I'd never consider getting a ravenwing army.

Prices should at least be vaguely linked to points costs, so much money for such a cheap speeder is just absurd.

 Rainbow Dash wrote:
Thats a lot of new stuff, I have never bought that much, new, at once in my life lol

10 years ago you could have afforded it.

GW prices are at insane levels and it is now completely turning both existing and new players off from GW altogether.

As an example of how out of control is has become, take this example.

In 1988 I bought the Terminator Squad boxed set (all white metal) which contained 6 troops, a captain and a librarian for $15.99. Adjusted for inflation, that set would go for $29.93 today.

Today, we have a plastic terminator squad (of 5), a metal terminator librarian and a metal terminator captain going for $85.25. Adjusted for inflation, that would be $45.55 in 1988 when I bought the original terminator squad.

So, in 1988 a single terminator was going for approx. $2 which would be $3.74 today (adjusted for inflation) an 87% increase. Instead, we have a terminator averaging $12.18 today (which would have been like terminators going for $6.50 each in 1988) which is a 509% increase since 1988. As you can see, they have risen at almost six times the rate of inflation. Not to mention you have plastic today (a much cheaper material) and had white metal in 1988.

To put the above in another perspective, if you earned $25,000 in salary that would be to $46,471 today. Using GW price increase formula, if you earned $25,000 in 1988 it would be equivalent to being paid $152,250 today for the same job. No ones salary levels have increased that much, but GW pricing has. As a result, they have reached (or definitely will with the inevitable June price increase) a point where they are pricing themselves out of the market.

Wayshuba wrote:
GW prices are at insane levels and it is now completely turning both existing and new players off from GW altogether.

As an example of how out of control is has become, take this example.

In 1988 I bought the Terminator Squad boxed set (all white metal) which contained 6 troops, a captain and a librarian for $15.99. Adjusted for inflation, that set would go for $29.93 today.

Today, we have a plastic terminator squad (of 5), a metal terminator librarian and a metal terminator captain going for $85.25. Adjusted for inflation, that would be $45.55 in 1988 when I bought the original terminator squad.

So, in 1988 a single terminator was going for approx. $2 which would be $3.74 today (adjusted for inflation) an 87% increase. Instead, we have a terminator averaging $12.18 today (which would have been like terminators going for $6.50 each in 1988) which is a 509% increase since 1988. As you can see, they have risen at almost six times the rate of inflation. Not to mention you have plastic today (a much cheaper material) and had white metal in 1988.

To put the above in another perspective, if you earned $25,000 in salary that would be to $46,471 today. Using GW price increase formula, if you earned $25,000 in 1988 it would be equivalent to being paid $152,250 today for the same job. No ones salary levels have increased that much, but GW pricing has.

However, it is misleading to use base average CPI to calculate where prices "should" be. "Inflation rate" is only an average (rather artificially calculated, usually 'tuned' to be low for political reasons) and in reality commodity price changes annually range from negative (price decrease) to several tens of percents. I didn't play GW games in 1988, but I well remember prices of many other items, and some have got signifantly cheaper (food, most notably), whilst some have seen increases just as high as GW products have.

 Kilkrazy wrote:

 Rainbow Dash wrote:
Thats a lot of new stuff, I have never bought that much, new, at once in my life lol

10 years ago you could have afforded it.

Speaking personally, 10 years ago I was a full time student and flat broke.

Ironically, the last few years have been the only time in my 20 years of playing 40k where I could actually 'afford it'.

This thread just made me think of how expensive video games used to be.

Last month I found an N64 ocarina of time in the box in my room with the price still on.

It was £59.99, and that was the RRP.. I remember buying it and checking several stores for the price.

It was during the summer holidays in my last year of high school so what... 1995 or something?!

At least electronic gaming has gotten cheaper!

Wayshuba wrote:
GW prices are at insane levels and it is now completely turning both existing and new players off from GW altogether.

As an example of how out of control is has become, take this example.

In 1988 I bought the Terminator Squad boxed set (all white metal) which contained 6 troops, a captain and a librarian for $15.99. Adjusted for inflation, that set would go for $29.93 today.

Today, we have a plastic terminator squad (of 5), a metal terminator librarian and a metal terminator captain going for $85.25. Adjusted for inflation, that would be $45.55 in 1988 when I bought the original terminator squad.

So, in 1988 a single terminator was going for approx. $2 which would be $3.74 today (adjusted for inflation) an 87% increase. Instead, we have a terminator averaging $12.18 today (which would have been like terminators going for $6.50 each in 1988) which is a 509% increase since 1988. As you can see, they have risen at almost six times the rate of inflation. Not to mention you have plastic today (a much cheaper material) and had white metal in 1988.

To put the above in another perspective, if you earned $25,000 in salary that would be to $46,471 today. Using GW price increase formula, if you earned $25,000 in 1988 it would be equivalent to being paid $152,250 today for the same job. No ones salary levels have increased that much, but GW pricing has. As a result, they have reached (or definitely will with the inevitable June price increase) a point where they are pricing themselves out of the market.

Numbers schmumbers.

As far back as I can remember (1988 and forward) Warhammer has always been expensive hobby. Once I stopped being a student, got a degree in something other than cultural science and found a job that didn't end in "assistant" I could afford it. Still "expensive" but still nowhere near as expensive as any of my other hobbies. A bunch of the guys I played with during my student days are still playing or have returned to the hobby recently and I hear nothing about it being "too expensive". Of course, everyone wish that it was less expensive so we could have ten armies per person instead of two. The ones that still play tabletop games but not 40K have left for other games with more tactical complexity. Often spending just as much as they did with Warhammer.

Will they price themselves out of the student/non-employed segment of the market? Surely! They have already done that too a degree. But I have never heard any marketing suit talk about that segment as especially desireable. So Im not too sure they will care about that. They want to (if the marketing geniuses & business analysts here are correct) hook little Johnny and take his parents money. What happens when Johnny gets a poor student/undergrad they dont care that much for until he gets back to the hobby in later years. When he has both money and time to spend.

 Kilkrazy wrote:

 Rainbow Dash wrote:
Thats a lot of new stuff, I have never bought that much, new, at once in my life lol

10 years ago you could have afforded it.

10 years ago I was 14, my parents never bought me warhammer, I had a part time job so I had to myself
and as you can assume, I made less then I do now

My old stuff is painted very well and the new stuff I intend to match. Honestly I'd be very surprised if I spent $400 on this release to bolster my forces including the 'Dex. I am a DA player. $400, that's not even a week's worth of work, and I'm probably not buying it all at once, or up front. And I gotta do this, what, once every five years? As a veteran gamer I can't say this "inflation" affects me very much, but to be honest it does irk me when I think about it. Agreed I'd hate to start any GW army from nothing and that's where I'll back anyone who's outraged about prices.

 mattyrm wrote:
This thread just made me think of how expensive video games used to be.

Last month I found an N64 ocarina of time in the box in my room with the price still on.

It was £59.99, and that was the RRP.. I remember buying it and checking several stores for the price.

It was during the summer holidays in my last year of high school so what... 1995 or something?!

At least electronic gaming has gotten cheaper!

I ran across an article on this topic a bit ago; "An inconvenient truth: game prices have come down with time". It's not merely an issue that GW products have increased in price, but the primary competitor for discretionary spending of their audience is actually getting cheaper and cheaper.

I was shocked when I looked at the pre-order prices. "Dark Angels One-Click Launch Bundle" for... $299.50?! Since not everyone is conversant with comparable US dollar amounts, some things that are similarly priced...

A 32" High Definition TV,
An X-Box 360,
A Playstation 3,

So, for the price of the "Hunt for the Fallen" I could buy an HDTV and a game system to use with it. Okay... Is that even a legal army? Oh, I'm not sure, since the $539 price does not include the Codex(!).

They priced me out of their games two years ago, but they certainly didn't price me out of the hobby; I'm still playing Warmachine and will be starting up Malifaux some time soon. I'll admit I was a bit tempted after reading the 6th edition rules a couple times, (perhaps a bit too much randomness, but then I realized it was probably a good thing as they had finally given up on pretending that they were making a serious, competitive game) and I especially like the Chaos Codex, but then I wrote up a 1500 point army list, totaled the costs and basically laughed and laughed, and it didn't even include the price of the rulebook and codex. (Nice as the Codex may be, I'm not convinced its $50 worth of nice).

I'm not one of those people that has to have a dozen armies in each system so I'm not to fussed. Would I prefer it was cheaper? Sure! But then nobody likes paying more for anything.

I can't help but laugh when people say things like "GW is so expensive I'm going to a different system" When the money they've already invested in GW products makes that line of reasoning totally insane.

MarsNZ wrote:

I can't help but laugh when people say things like "GW is so expensive I'm going to a different system" When the money they've already invested in GW products makes that line of reasoning totally insane.

Not really, when you consider that GW intends on shifting the internal balance of each new codex and writing their rulebook updates so that you have to buy new models to stay competitive.

It's not like your GW models all explode into pixie dust as soon as you start playing a different game, in fact with a lot of games you can use your GW models to play them.

Also:

http://youarenotsosmart.com/2011/03/25/the-sunk-cost-fallacy/

I don't know about people who have a pretty big army already as well as lots of tools, but I can tell you that it gets expensive real fast when you start from scratch.
Rulebooks alone are between 75€ and 100€ depending on how old the codex is. 85-100€ for a battleforce. Easily 50€ for brushes, paints and miscellaneous tools. You're looking at 210-250€ to get the very minimum you need to play, if you are starting the way GW wants you to. And then you will need even more money to build a competitive list.
Of course you can play it smart, buy second-hand, find an online retailer offering a good discount... But when you start and have almost no knowledge of the game, it's tough if there isn't someone to help you.

But it's fun as hell.

 scarletsquig wrote:
It's not like your GW models all explode into pixie dust as soon as you start playing a different game, in fact with a lot of games you can use your GW models to play them.

Also:

http://youarenotsosmart.com/2011/03/25/the-sunk-cost-fallacy/

It's not quite the same here because 1. some of the cost is recoverable (you can sell the figures) and 2. The figures aren't lost; you can still use them.

It's not a case of "I've spent a fortune at GW, so if I go to a different system I've lost out", it's more a case of "Well I've already got almost everything from GW, so I only need to spend $x more to keep up, versus $y to start over". Yes there will still be a bias towards avoiding the loss if x and y are similar.


Edit: Also, £55 for a limited edition codex? I was toying with getting the DA codex, or maybe the limited one, but the limited one is definitely out. That'll get me nearly 4 Bolt Action army lists (codices)

There is a more important factor than affordability , which is covered quite well all ready.
Percieved value for money!

IF a set amount of money gives me;-
A) A complete gang/force/army, rule book and gang/force/army composition lists, from one company.
B)Only a few plastic minatures from another company .

I can afford to buy both.But A has far more percived value.

And I know lots of companies sell 'starter box' sets. And most are around a similar price point.
But the starter cost to the normal cost has to be reasonable. Otherwise the shock of the 'normal cost' can turn people right off!

And we can simply do direct comparisons to other companies products.
Asthetics can only justify so much price difference.

 Breotan wrote:
According to BoLS, here are the prices for the new DA stuff coming in January:

Codex: Dark Angels (English) 104pp Colour Hardback $49.50
Ravenwing Dark Talon 1 Mini $75.00
Land Speeder Vengeance 1 Mini $65.00
Deathwing Command Squad 5 Minis $60.00
Ravenwing Command Squad 3 Minis $50.00
Dark Angels Battleforce 8 Minis $110.00

That's right. $75.00 for that flier and $50.00 for three bikes. Oh, and don't forget that awesome DA Battleforce with eight whole models.

I heavily rely on Dark Angels figures for my DYI chapter but I'm wondering if GW has finally hit that magical point where I simply can't justify the cost of their product. I have more disposable income than a lot of people out there so I expect that many of you have already hit this wall. If so, when did it happen for you? If you haven't hit it yet, how is your hobby future looking?

Myself? I find that I am migrating over to Malifaux these days, that and spending obscene amounts of money on kickstarters (damn you McVey, Poots, and the rest). Some small purchases and some specific Forge World purchases are still in the cards, but I'll certainly not be starting up any new armies with GW. I used to buy every codex when it came out. Now I only buy the onces I actually use. Once the annual price increase hits this coming summer, my GW portion of the hobby will likely be reduced to painting. Shame, really.

The finecrap debacle was what put me over the edge. haven't looked back. GW will be funding Kingdom death, when I get back.

I'm finding the price of other games and hobbies are making GW more appealing.

I collected Heroclix last year, very expensive.

Decent board games are around £50-£70 each. And you don't want to keep playing the same board game each week, at least I don't. And other wargames on the market like Malifaux and Warmachine don't appeal.

Still can't afford the petrol & repairs to go 4x4 off-roading.

Right now 40K is not only the game I enjoy the most but also the cheaper alternative.

4x4 Off-roading is a cheap hobby because it's so much less expensive than space tourism.