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I don't recall heroclix being that bad, but then I played most weeks about 7 years ago and bought a blister each time I was in the game store, for about $10 (4 random figures), or a few lucky dips at about $2 each. I guess if you're set on getting specific figures or want to collect the whole set it can get pretty pricey due to the random nature (I dread to think how many rookie henchmen I had before I sold them off), but it always seemed fairly balanced and I was happy to play with whatever I got

No, GW hasn't hit the magic number for everyone, but according to this thread they have hit the magic number for some, and more importantly, it appears that they have convinced many people to pare back their purchases.

I'll continue to by the rules and codices for the armies I have, but I can't remember the last time (probably 2 years ago) that I bought a new GW model kit or figure.

I suspect alot of other folks are will continue to maintain the armies they have with occasional purchases, but not buy new armies the way they might have in the past.

BryllCream wrote:
Prices should at least be vaguely linked to points costs, so much money for such a cheap speeder is just absurd.

I disagree with this. Though as you point out, sometimes things are not costed based on what their game value is, by and large GW prices things higher based on how many points they are worth.

I don't like it and see game-value-pricing as just another tool in GW's arsenal for reasons for over-pricing their goods.

"It's worth more in the game"

"The price of tin has gone up"

"Fincast is the best thing ever"

"We want to give a bigger dividend to our shareholders"

Note that some of these are not said, but are reasons anyway.

 Ugavine wrote:
I'm finding the price of other games and hobbies are making GW more appealing.

I collected Heroclix last year, very expensive.

Decent board games are around £50-£70 each. And you don't want to keep playing the same board game each week, at least I don't. And other wargames on the market like Malifaux and Warmachine don't appeal.

Still can't afford the petrol & repairs to go 4x4 off-roading.

Right now 40K is not only the game I enjoy the most but also the cheaper alternative.

QFT
Particularly the Heroclix. I started collecting those little jobbers in October of 2011. I think I spent about $1100 over the course of 2012....kinda scary after the math was done. It all added up pretty fast.
SDE and the Star Wars board game were about $100 USD a pop too.

GW doesn't have any sort of monopoly on expensive entertainment.

MarsNZ wrote:
I'm not one of those people that has to have a dozen armies in each system so I'm not to fussed. Would I prefer it was cheaper? Sure! But then nobody likes paying more for anything.

I can't help but laugh when people say things like "GW is so expensive I'm going to a different system" When the money they've already invested in GW products makes that line of reasoning totally insane.

well, it depends on the exact nature of the switch to another system.

Starting, say, warmachine from scratch while never touching 40k again would be more expensive than updating a current 40k army.

That said, If you have a big enough 40k collection, you can really roll with most edition and codex changes with only minimal investment. I own a huge painted IG army, a huge unpained eldar army, and 2000 points of Draigowing and Orks. What's a better investment for me, buying a fifth army, or starting a completely new system? It's called diminishing returns.

 Polonius wrote:
What's a better investment for me, buying a fifth army, or starting a completely new system? It's called diminishing returns.

Definitely starting a completely new system, because then you won't have to play 40k.

I stopped in Fifth Edition. After they increased their prices of a Tactical Squad, Last thing I bought was blood angels. And then I switched over to my own universe. I am tempted to still buy some but, some companies offer me better stuff and I like them better.

I think part of it is to cover the operational expense of running all the retail stores instead of selling to FLGS or online sales. Just a guess on my part.

 btr75 wrote:
I think part of it is to cover the operational expense of running all the retail stores instead of selling to FLGS or online sales. Just a guess on my part.

I'm sure that is part of it, but it's well documented that Kirby and the board have been writing themselves really nice dividends (even borrowing in the lean years to do so) over the past few years, and there's some evidence that the number of products sold hasn't increased. It's just prices that have increased.

This is not a recipe for a healthy company.

Eilif wrote:
No, GW hasn't hit the magic number for everyone, but according to this thread they have hit the magic number for some, and more importantly, it appears that they have convinced many people to pare back their purchases.

I'll continue to by the rules and codices for the armies I have, but I can't remember the last time (probably 2 years ago) that I bought a new GW model kit or figure.

I suspect alot of other folks are will continue to maintain the armies they have with occasional purchases, but not buy new armies the way they might have in the past.

BryllCream wrote:
Prices should at least be vaguely linked to points costs, so much money for such a cheap speeder is just absurd.

I disagree with this. Though as you point out, sometimes things are not costed based on what their game value is, by and large GW prices things higher based on how many points they are worth.

I don't like it and see game-value-pricing as just another tool in GW's arsenal for reasons for over-pricing their goods.

"It's worth more in the game"

"The price of tin has gone up"

"Fincast is the best thing ever"

"We want to give a bigger dividend to our shareholders"

Note that some of these are not said, but are reasons anyway.

I agree, I dont like that practice either. They already do this kind of. Certain figures are much more expensive or come with less priced the same simply because you might not be buying a lot of them or they are more expensive point wise.

I've been looking at modding other 1/32 and 1/48 scale tanks into russes and arty for my IG, but most of those are running 30-50 USD as well. There is some really nice stuff out there, but it all seems comparably costed to GW.

While it is logical to assume GW prices are matched to the overall market, (higher end of course) it still hurts the wallet sometimes.

The government needs to stop printing money so I can buy a model without a wheelbarrel full of cash.

There is no question about it, games workshop HAS hit that number. Even the prices you listed (which I'm assuming are the american prices) are ridiculous and in canada they jacked the price up a further 10$ on some kits with the deathwing command coming in at 70$ canadian and the ravenwing command at 60$ (and for people who don't know, the american dollar is only a few cents above the canadian dollar right now) I'm sad to say it but there's no way I would ever pay that for 3 models. ever. That being said 40k is still a great game and I love most games workshop models...

Sure makes me feel less sad when I buy Forgeworld products, tho I doubt I'll ever save money by going the Krieg way over Cadians and Catachans.

I got back in for a variety of reasons, I love the world of 40k, I've been reading the Black Library books for a dog's age and I had my poorly painted Ultra Smurfs back in the day. I came back for a love of the hobby, and a desire to paint to prepare myself for a lifetime of fine detail work in the trade I begin schooling for next year.

I'm not selling my armies yet, I do love them, but I'm done buying from GW. I was onboard for the new DA flyer, but what I'm getting for the cost? I'd rather convert a pair of Storm Talons, for the cost it would easily price out compared to a paint of the new flyers. Belial is just a weak looking sculpt, I much prefer my own kit bash, and it's not even a very good kit bash! (Man enough I can admit it's not my best work for conversions and home brews) the Knights look pretty cool and it's possible they'll be my last GW purchase, but over all even compared to the Dark Vengeance DA, it's weak release.

I'm migrating over to Dream Forge Games permanently now it seems, and perhaps some more Infinity miniatures. For the big army scale tactical games though, DFG's model quality and price just can't be beat. If you are a game manufacturer and your competition is putting out similar high quality sculpts (or better) in higher quality material, on a similar scale, for a ridiculously better value it's time to reevaluate your business practices.

For some base line comparisons:
1x Box of Cadian Stormtroopers - 10x base infantry - $39
1x Box of Eisenkern Stormtroopers - 20x base infantry - $39 (KS price, I'd estimate $50 for a box at retail)

So roughly GW is selling one it's cheaper base infantry units at 4/model while it's competition is selling higher quality sculpts with more options for half the price at 2/model, 2.5/model if we take my retail estimate.

If you want to go for the heavy stuff (and who doesn't want a titan, really?)

A FW Warhound Titan will run you around $500 for one complete model. A DFG Leviathan with an extra set of arms? I'd estimate it'll come out in the $140-$160 range at retail, AND the DFG model is high quality plastic as opposed to resin.

So yeah I'm done. Greener pastures.

If they ever release plastic sisters (hah) then I might buy some of those, but only because plastic sisters are my equivalent of a live unicorn or bigfoot.

I don't think it's as much of a case of pricing people out of the hobby; I know some people who've left, but just as many who've gotten in to it, but the increasing prices really do form a barrier.

No average person will willingly build a new army from scratch at retail. I've never bought a product from a GW store, never intend to, I only buy things retail to support the place I play at, and because they offer some of the best prices in quite literally hundreds of kilometers, because they realized making a smaller profit per sale, but encouraging people from all over to buy from them improves their bottom line.

Funny how GW doesn't realize that itself.

For me, how much I spend hasn't really changed, but what I'm getting for that is decreasing. A new army is an undertaking I have no desire to embark upon, so I settle for adding a piece here and there to my existant armies; building a new army would take months for me now, if not a year, to mitigate the cost, and it'd have to really appeal to me to put up with that. My group decided to try out fantasy, but few people invested in an army because it's just too much money to "try" something.

However, Battlefleet gothic, which has a startup cost of virtually nil compared to standard 40k, as it's unsupported and hasn't seen a price change in a very long time, is something everyone's jumping in to. It's got a solid ruleset, and you can get a decent fleet for $100 or less.

GW's business practice really is garbage at the moment, and it's not earning them any good will from their community. Some of it seems totally nonsensical, like the hardcover codi; the increased costs for their own production is likely resulting in only a small increase in actual profit; it merely hurts the playerbase.

 MajorStoffer wrote:
Some of it seems totally nonsensical, like the hardcover codi; the increased costs for their own production is likely resulting in only a small increase in actual profit; it merely hurts the playerbase.

Not really. Compared to paperbacks, hardcovers hardly cost anything extra to make. The move to hardcover codecies was purely for profit.

 Fafnir wrote:

 MajorStoffer wrote:
Some of it seems totally nonsensical, like the hardcover codi; the increased costs for their own production is likely resulting in only a small increase in actual profit; it merely hurts the playerbase.

Not really. Compared to paperbacks, hardcovers hardly cost anything extra to make. The move to hardcover codecies was purely for profit.

So the entire book industry is a scam? Because hardcover books costing more is hardly something that's unique to GW.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Fafnir wrote:

 MajorStoffer wrote:
Some of it seems totally nonsensical, like the hardcover codi; the increased costs for their own production is likely resulting in only a small increase in actual profit; it merely hurts the playerbase.

Not really. Compared to paperbacks, hardcovers hardly cost anything extra to make. The move to hardcover codecies was purely for profit.

So the entire book industry is a scam? Because hardcover books costing more is hardly something that's unique to GW.

Yes.

 KalashnikovMarine wrote:
A FW Warhound Titan will run you around $500 for one complete model. A DFG Leviathan with an extra set of arms? I'd estimate it'll come out in the $140-$160 range at retail, AND the DFG model is high quality plastic as opposed to resin.

You get what you pay for though. The Warhound is a bigger and more detailed model, and part of a complete product line instead of a one-time kickstarter project that consumed the entire "I want a cheap titan proxy" market in one shot. So you're comparing something designed from the start to be as cheap as possible with a larger model that's designed to be a centerpiece to an army and valued primarily for building and painting it. It remains to be seen whether DFG are ever going to move beyond the niche market of "cheap proxies for Apocalypse games" and be truly comparable to GW.

And of course aesthetic issues are subjective, but IMO the Leviathan is just ugly and not even close to being worth $150.

 MajorStoffer wrote:

However, Battlefleet gothic, which has a startup cost of virtually nil compared to standard 40k, as it's unsupported and hasn't seen a price change in a very long time, is something everyone's jumping in to. It's got a solid ruleset, and you can get a decent fleet for $100 or less.

Are you aware that there are a multitude of other games companies out there, and the games they put out share these properties (except usually the 'unsupported' part). If you're stuck playing in a GW store then fair enough, but it seems sometimes that when folks are looking to drop 40k and Fantasy the first instinct is to turn to GW's specialist games as the idea of buying not-GW is somehow 'a step too far'.

 Fafnir wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

 Fafnir wrote:

 MajorStoffer wrote:
Some of it seems totally nonsensical, like the hardcover codi; the increased costs for their own production is likely resulting in only a small increase in actual profit; it merely hurts the playerbase.

Not really. Compared to paperbacks, hardcovers hardly cost anything extra to make. The move to hardcover codecies was purely for profit.

So the entire book industry is a scam? Because hardcover books costing more is hardly something that's unique to GW.

Yes.

That's fair I suppose, but it doesn't make much sense to single out GW for criticism over it when it's something that's universal across the entire publishing industry.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Fafnir wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

 Fafnir wrote:

 MajorStoffer wrote:
Some of it seems totally nonsensical, like the hardcover codi; the increased costs for their own production is likely resulting in only a small increase in actual profit; it merely hurts the playerbase.

Not really. Compared to paperbacks, hardcovers hardly cost anything extra to make. The move to hardcover codecies was purely for profit.

So the entire book industry is a scam? Because hardcover books costing more is hardly something that's unique to GW.

Yes.

That's fair I suppose, but it doesn't make much sense to single out GW for criticism over it when it's something that's universal across the entire publishing industry.

The problem was stopping production of softcovers and making hardcovers the only version that is available. Especially when those same hardcovers are a paint to actually carry around and use for gaming purposes.

Granted, it's not just GW, but at the end of the day, I still don't like it, regardless of who is doing it. I love Infinity and Corvus Belli to bits, but I dislike that I can only get their rulebooks in hardcover (granted, being able to get the rules online as a free PDF helps mitigate this).

 Peregrine wrote:

 KalashnikovMarine wrote:
A FW Warhound Titan will run you around $500 for one complete model. A DFG Leviathan with an extra set of arms? I'd estimate it'll come out in the $140-$160 range at retail, AND the DFG model is high quality plastic as opposed to resin.

You get what you pay for though. The Warhound is a bigger and more detailed model, and part of a complete product line instead of a one-time kickstarter project that consumed the entire "I want a cheap titan proxy" market in one shot. So you're comparing something designed from the start to be as cheap as possible with a larger model that's designed to be a centerpiece to an army and valued primarily for building and painting it. It remains to be seen whether DFG are ever going to move beyond the niche market of "cheap proxies for Apocalypse games" and be truly comparable to GW.

And of course aesthetic issues are subjective, but IMO the Leviathan is just ugly and not even close to being worth $150.

Well here's the old resin Leviathan side by side with a warhound. The new model which is part of a range that is in ongoing development, and is in regular production. Personally I also happen to like the visual design, but as you said that's subjective.

This is not:



That's past GW level quality, and the model is more dynamic (especially if you get the accessory sprue) for less money. Again you might hate that specific faction's visual design, but give it some time, Mark's working full tilt on that and the Iron Core rules from what I understand.

The Leviathan looks way better than the other two and compared to the dreamforge infantry, the details on the space marines just look soft.

If I was starting a new sci-fi army today, I'd go for dreamforge over GW any day of the week. The preorders are en route to Utah for shipping out and the shipment for retailers is following. Shouldn't be too long before they are available for sale.

If you have an existing army or even part of an army I do not believe GW has priced people out of the hobby. I think they have killed alot of business for people just getting into the hobby. Looking at the prices of the DA stuff alone makes me want to cry. I have friend who is a huge DA player and has not played since early 4th edition. He is looking to get back into the hobby and on a budget it will be a very long time for him to update his army with many of the new models. Some he may not even buy.

For me, I am back to internet shopping. I am looking to do a Swiftclaw biker unit for an upcoming tournament. I am going to straight to internet (ebay) for this stuff. I have no desire to even try to buy this stuff new. I want to add a Land Raider to my Crimson Fists. I will never pay $80.00+ dollars for Land Raider....never.

These prices have not killed my hobby but it has hurt my game store and it is hurting many gamers who cannot keep up with the latest stuff.

 Bikeninja wrote:

I will never pay $80.00+ dollars for Land Raider....never.

At first, I didn't believe you when you said Land Raiders cost that much. Then I checked GW's website... $89.

Wow.

My paranoia strikes.

Sometimes I wonder if these posts are just a GW marketing ploy. Instead of spending money on marketing , they just post a negative comment about themselves on Dakka dakka et all, all the gainsayers will jump on the bandwagon and word of their product out there at no additional cost. Product awareness is created.

Yes the OP and the bulk of the responses will scare some buyers off, but the people who have been budgeting and saving for this release or the next will be buying it anyway, no matter what the cost. Meanwhile GW is getting free advertising as these type of post inadvertently end up on the Dakka home page. Do you think it is coincidence that a post similar to this pops up on dakka-dakka almost every week, if not every day?

If you are really serious about no longer supporting GW products, then do not. Suck it up and go about your hobby supporting who you feel deserves it. That way, no free marketing for GW.

Furious Retreat wrote:
Sometimes I wonder if these posts are just a GW marketing ploy. Instead of spending money on marketing , they just post a negative comment about themselves on Dakka dakka et all, all the gainsayers will jump on the bandwagon and word of their product out there at no additional cost. Product awareness is created.

I do not believe this is one of those situations where "all publicity is good publicity." People conferring with each other and agreeing that these price hikes are over the top hurts their business.

Just my humble opinion.

It makes me angry that GW has been slowly upping the price bit by bit to the point of being almost to expensive to continue. It makes no sense that $2.00 worth of plastic is pressed into a Landraider and you are charged nearly $90 for it I mean the profit margin for GW is insane if this is the case.

That said I love the 40k Universe and all of the fluff associated with it but I will have to begin looking for an alternate hobby/different game soon if GW doesn't get for real with their prices.

Dark Heresy?

 Peregrine wrote:

 Fafnir wrote:

 MajorStoffer wrote:
Some of it seems totally nonsensical, like the hardcover codi; the increased costs for their own production is likely resulting in only a small increase in actual profit; it merely hurts the playerbase.

Not really. Compared to paperbacks, hardcovers hardly cost anything extra to make. The move to hardcover codecies was purely for profit.

So the entire book industry is a scam? Because hardcover books costing more is hardly something that's unique to GW.

The hard part of those covers is just card stock. No different from a cardboard box other than it being compressed instead of corrugated and it's total thickness. And it's likely made from recycled paper, so really you'd be looking at a $1 cost increase at the absolute most for making any random book a hardcover.

They also mark up for the fact that the books are now full color, as if such things are of significant costs these days.