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Taking the model's eye view isn't fluff. It's what the rules tell you to do. No permission is given to assume that the model changes position to do so.

 insaniak wrote:
Taking the model's eye view isn't fluff. It's what the rules tell you to do. No permission is given to assume that the model changes position to do so.

Alright say I have a unit of noise marines equipped with sonic weapons and they are all facing the same direction. If an enemy deep strikes behind them I cannot turn and shoot them based on your interpretation of the rules because pivoting is movement and I dont have line of sight to them and if I move I cannot fire my salvo weapons. So I give my opponent a hand shake well done sir my marines are screwed now.

Well, the rules for salvo disagree with you on whether you can fire at all, so I would suggest you actually read page 52 before getting all hyperbolic over a totally legitimate reading of the rules

No where in the LOS rules does it say that eyes have to be looking at their target. All it says is that you need to be able to draw a straight line from the eyes to the target, and as Deathreaper points out we've got permission to ignore the model/head itself.


(ps. while anatomi isn't my strong suit, I'm fairly certain eyes have a backside)

Models eye view is defined as looking from behind the model towards the target. This means that models, by the rules cannot look behind them.

rigeld2 wrote:
Models eye view is defined as looking from behind the model towards the target. This means that models, by the rules cannot look behind them.

Guess it's time to play the "mutant" army everyone has 2 heads one for the front, one for the back

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Well, the rules for salvo disagree with you on whether you can fire at all, so I would suggest you actually read page 52 before getting all hyperbolic over a totally legitimate reading of the rules

touche... i guess a penalty for shooting them would be the proper wording.

rigeld2 wrote:
Models eye view is defined as looking from behind the model towards the target. This means that models, by the rules cannot look behind them.

Models eye view is only used when there isn't an obvious answer, so even then a model would be able to shoot backwards if there there's no Intervening terrain/models.

Tomb King wrote:Alright say I have a unit of noise marines equipped with sonic weapons and they are all facing the same direction. If an enemy deep strikes behind them I cannot turn and shoot them based on your interpretation of the rules because pivoting is movement and I dont have line of sight to them and if I move I cannot fire my salvo weapons. So I give my opponent a hand shake well done sir my marines are screwed now.

As the rules currently stand, yes, that is the case.

I doubt anyone will actually play that way, though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Lilrys wrote:
Models eye view is only used when there isn't an obvious answer, so even then a model would be able to shoot backwards if there there's no Intervening terrain/models.

Getting down to check the model's eye view is only used when you can't easily determine LOS without doing so... but that doesn't change what the model can or can not see. In fact, making sure that you are only shooting at something the model can see is entirely the point of getting the model's eye view where necessary.

I don't see the point in this argument, as models can freely pivot to fire (barring vehicles, who must do it in the movement phase)

Pivoting doesn't count as movement in either case, for vehicles or models.

Hell, Dreadnoughts/walkers can even pivot in the shooting phase to fire, I'm pretty sure infantry can, too.

Ahhh forums. Arguing over pointless things.

Crazyterran wrote:
I don't see the point in this argument, as models can freely pivot to fire (barring vehicles, who must do it in the movement phase)

Pivoting doesn't count as movement in either case, for vehicles or models.

Hell, Dreadnoughts/walkers can even pivot in the shooting phase to fire, I'm pretty sure infantry can, too.

Ahhh forums. Arguing over pointless things.

IIRC Walkers have a specific rule allowing them to. Vehicles move/pivot during the movement phase.
I see nothing allowing infantry to do so in this edition.

Crazyterran wrote:
I don't see the point in this argument, as models can freely pivot to fire (barring vehicles, who must do it in the movement phase)

That was true last edition.

If you can find that rule in the current rulebook, I would love to see it.

Crazyterran wrote:
I don't see the point in this argument, as models can freely pivot to fire (barring vehicles, who must do it in the movement phase)
.

Please find the actual rule that says you can do so.

nosferatu1001 wrote:

Crazyterran wrote:
I don't see the point in this argument, as models can freely pivot to fire (barring vehicles, who must do it in the movement phase)
.

Please find the actual rule that says you can do so.

Sadly these people are right, strict RAW. There is no rule. You can only see what your models eyes are facing, which brings up all sorts of arguments about models without of eyes, or space marine helmets. However no one is going to play it that way, and if they try to, shake your head in disappointment, and walk away.

I don't have the rules to hand but I believe the rules for heavy weapons specify that pivoting a model doesn't count as having moved for the purposes of firing a weapon.

Rob451 wrote:
I don't have the rules to hand but I believe the rules for heavy weapons specify that pivoting a model doesn't count as having moved for the purposes of firing a weapon.

I personally can't find such rule anywhere in the rulebook. Rules for Vehicles specify that pivoting does not count as moving, but that is very much Vehicle specific rule.

Rules for Heavy weapons do state that only previous Movement Phase counts, so if theoretically you had special rule that allowed you to move unit in Shooting Phase without any extra restrictions, that unit could still fire Heavy weapons normally.

Yep; it was a rule in 5th that didnt make it in to 6th, a bit like moving through other models was in the movement phase but is now a "reminder" in the assault phase....