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So with the new Dark Angels coming out with some new really cool looking units, as well as a new codex, I feel like being a codex player is increasingly foolish. If you want to paint your own scheme, or choose from one of the very cool chapters that just doesn't have it's own codex, you'll be missing out on some very powerful units, and even if you don't care about how uber some units are, you're still missing out on some awesome looking models. Maybe its foolish to fell slighted every time a codex comes out, but I don't think my chapter will EVER get its own codex.

I am assuming that since GW encourages you to buy every model for everything ever, instead of filling out your own army, and most of the people at my FLGS tend to field whatever is new, this wont bother most people, but I don't have the cash to buy everything that comes out.

Sorry, guess I'm just venting, but am I the only one who feels this way?

It has ever been thus and ever will be! You see the new stuff and think "I'd love some of that!" but it passes. Codex:SM is a solid codex with masses and masses of choices. That for me is the key for collecting, the ability to field a good variety of possible units and combinations so you can have a good collection and a choice of what to field. I guess for WAAC players the ideal would be to put together a list of all the strongest units in all the codices and then make them into one uber army! Don't forget allies as a way to get some nice and different units into your army. Your SM can have some DA or whatever. Imperial armies have loads of potential additional units to pick from as allies. Try being nids, codex with little choice and many, many units with no available upgrades and no allies to spice it up!

I feel similar. Every marine codex seems to one up the vanilla one, as they contain the same units as the vanilla plus spiffy new ones. Oh well.

If you play Codex Marines, you can play pretty much any of the codex books with only a few adjustments.

I don't really see anything about Codex: Dark Angels that would be hard to play "Counts As".

And the up side is that your Marines won't be wearing stupid looking hoodie bathrobes.

Agree with the above-C:SM is fine

Armies that need the most help IMO

BT (Seriously GW we buy an upgrade sprue that costs almost as much as another tac box...show us some love)
Sisters
Nids depending on who you ask

 Texanity wrote:
I feel similar. Every marine codex seems to one up the vanilla one, as they contain the same units as the vanilla plus spiffy new ones. Oh well.

I think that is certainly true of some of the SM codices.

GK, whatever you think of them, do have substantial limits on what they can take from the main SM codex - no speeders, no bikes, no predators, no vindicators, etc, etc. What they have is excellent but it is different and has less variety. Some, notably BA, are SM++++++. BA can take everything in the SM codex and loads of cool and powerful additional stuff. With added furiosos, death company, sanguinor, stormbricks, etc. You lose nothing but you gain a lot. It certainly seems a no-brainer to some extent, if you want SM get BA, what do you lose? You only lose the chance to have a different paint scheme in effect but gain loads of cool gear. It looks like DA will be the same, vanilla SM with loads and loads of add-ons. We'll see.

I'd like to see a massive new SM codex with absolutely loads of options and specific bits and bobs for a variety of chapters. That would help to provide the variety and choice. I expect a lot of chapter-specific special characters which 'unlock' chapter specific units into troops or whatever, say bikes for White Scars, etc, etc.

Isengard wrote:
I'd like to see a massive new SM codex with absolutely loads of options and specific bits and bobs for a variety of chapters. That would help to provide the variety and choice. I expect a lot of chapter-specific special characters which 'unlock' chapter specific units into troops or whatever, say bikes for White Scars, etc, etc.

If I remember right, taking a Captain with a bike allows you to take Bike Squads as troops in the current SM Codex.

 Pouncey wrote:

Isengard wrote:

 Texanity wrote:
I feel similar. Every marine codex seems to one up the vanilla one, as they contain the same units as the vanilla plus spiffy new ones. Oh well.

I think that is certainly true of some of the SM codices.

GK, whatever you think of them, do have substantial limits on what they can take from the main SM codex - no speeders, no bikes, no predators, no vindicators, etc, etc. What they have is excellent but it is different and has less variety. Some, notably BA, are SM++++++. BA can take everything in the SM codex and loads of cool and powerful additional stuff. With added furiosos, death company, sanguinor, stormbricks, etc. You lose nothing but you gain a lot. It certainly seems a no-brainer to some extent, if you want SM get BA, what do you lose? You only lose the chance to have a different paint scheme in effect but gain loads of cool gear. It looks like DA will be the same, vanilla SM with loads and loads of add-ons. We'll see.

I'd like to see a massive new SM codex with absolutely loads of options and specific bits and bobs for a variety of chapters. That would help to provide the variety and choice. I expect a lot of chapter-specific special characters which 'unlock' chapter specific units into troops or whatever, say bikes for White Scars, etc, etc.

If I remember right, taking a Captain with a bike allows you to take Bike Squads as troops in the current SM Codex.

You also miss out on Combat Tactics, all the Special Characters, Thunderfire Cannons, cheap TH/SS Terminators and Masters of the Forge.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:

Isengard wrote:

 Texanity wrote:
I feel similar. Every marine codex seems to one up the vanilla one, as they contain the same units as the vanilla plus spiffy new ones. Oh well.

I think that is certainly true of some of the SM codices.

GK, whatever you think of them, do have substantial limits on what they can take from the main SM codex - no speeders, no bikes, no predators, no vindicators, etc, etc. What they have is excellent but it is different and has less variety. Some, notably BA, are SM++++++. BA can take everything in the SM codex and loads of cool and powerful additional stuff. With added furiosos, death company, sanguinor, stormbricks, etc. You lose nothing but you gain a lot. It certainly seems a no-brainer to some extent, if you want SM get BA, what do you lose? You only lose the chance to have a different paint scheme in effect but gain loads of cool gear. It looks like DA will be the same, vanilla SM with loads and loads of add-ons. We'll see.

I'd like to see a massive new SM codex with absolutely loads of options and specific bits and bobs for a variety of chapters. That would help to provide the variety and choice. I expect a lot of chapter-specific special characters which 'unlock' chapter specific units into troops or whatever, say bikes for White Scars, etc, etc.

If I remember right, taking a Captain with a bike allows you to take Bike Squads as troops in the current SM Codex.

You also miss out on Combat Tactics, all the Special Characters, Thunderfire Cannons, cheap TH/SS Terminators and Masters of the Forge.

I don't remember that restriction...

Unless you were talking to someone I quoted?

 Pouncey wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:

Isengard wrote:

 Texanity wrote:
I feel similar. Every marine codex seems to one up the vanilla one, as they contain the same units as the vanilla plus spiffy new ones. Oh well.

I think that is certainly true of some of the SM codices.

GK, whatever you think of them, do have substantial limits on what they can take from the main SM codex - no speeders, no bikes, no predators, no vindicators, etc, etc. What they have is excellent but it is different and has less variety. Some, notably BA, are SM++++++. BA can take everything in the SM codex and loads of cool and powerful additional stuff. With added furiosos, death company, sanguinor, stormbricks, etc. You lose nothing but you gain a lot. It certainly seems a no-brainer to some extent, if you want SM get BA, what do you lose? You only lose the chance to have a different paint scheme in effect but gain loads of cool gear. It looks like DA will be the same, vanilla SM with loads and loads of add-ons. We'll see.

I'd like to see a massive new SM codex with absolutely loads of options and specific bits and bobs for a variety of chapters. That would help to provide the variety and choice. I expect a lot of chapter-specific special characters which 'unlock' chapter specific units into troops or whatever, say bikes for White Scars, etc, etc.

If I remember right, taking a Captain with a bike allows you to take Bike Squads as troops in the current SM Codex.

You also miss out on Combat Tactics, all the Special Characters, Thunderfire Cannons, cheap TH/SS Terminators and Masters of the Forge.

I don't remember that restriction...

Unless you were talking to someone I quoted?

Sorry, I should've worded that better, the stuff I listed is stuff you miss out on if you play BA.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Sorry, I should've worded that better, the stuff I listed is stuff you miss out on if you play BA.

It's alright, I could've been a LOT clearer in what part I was replying to. ^^

FWP...

Seriously? Specialist chapters get the new cool stuff and then the vanilla codex gets it afterwards. Chill out...

Isengard wrote:
It has ever been thus and ever will be! You see the new stuff and think "I'd love some of that!" but it passes. Codex:SM is a solid codex with masses and masses of choices. That for me is the key for collecting, the ability to field a good variety of possible units and combinations so you can have a good collection and a choice of what to field. I guess for WAAC players the ideal would be to put together a list of all the strongest units in all the codices and then make them into one uber army! Don't forget allies as a way to get some nice and different units into your army. Your SM can have some DA or whatever. Imperial armies have loads of potential additional units to pick from as allies. Try being nids, codex with little choice and many, many units with no available upgrades and no allies to spice it up!

Quoted for truth.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:

Isengard wrote:

 Texanity wrote:
I feel similar. Every marine codex seems to one up the vanilla one, as they contain the same units as the vanilla plus spiffy new ones. Oh well.

I think that is certainly true of some of the SM codices.

GK, whatever you think of them, do have substantial limits on what they can take from the main SM codex - no speeders, no bikes, no predators, no vindicators, etc, etc. What they have is excellent but it is different and has less variety. Some, notably BA, are SM++++++. BA can take everything in the SM codex and loads of cool and powerful additional stuff. With added furiosos, death company, sanguinor, stormbricks, etc. You lose nothing but you gain a lot. It certainly seems a no-brainer to some extent, if you want SM get BA, what do you lose? You only lose the chance to have a different paint scheme in effect but gain loads of cool gear. It looks like DA will be the same, vanilla SM with loads and loads of add-ons. We'll see.

I'd like to see a massive new SM codex with absolutely loads of options and specific bits and bobs for a variety of chapters. That would help to provide the variety and choice. I expect a lot of chapter-specific special characters which 'unlock' chapter specific units into troops or whatever, say bikes for White Scars, etc, etc.

If I remember right, taking a Captain with a bike allows you to take Bike Squads as troops in the current SM Codex.

You also miss out on Combat Tactics, all the Special Characters, Thunderfire Cannons, cheap TH/SS Terminators and Masters of the Forge.

I don't remember that restriction...

Unless you were talking to someone I quoted?

Sorry, I should've worded that better, the stuff I listed is stuff you miss out on if you play BA.

Yeah, fair play. There is some stuff you miss but in terms of the basic units you get virtually the whole SM codex and then a load of other stuff. If they need a seperate codex why bother for just a few changes, they could easily do the whole lot of SM in one codex with a few pages for each major chapter.

All I need is the vanilla marine codex. SW does not interest me, I do not like the current GK, some stuff in the BA codex is just... not my cup of tea, those new DA termies look nice but that's it. The Vanilla marine codex is a good choice in my opinnion. Besides I like running all scout lists and the Vanilla marines are best for that purpose.

I play Codex Space Marines and Dark Angels. I've felt left behind with Angels for a long time, so I am excited about the new codex.

That being said, I'm not going to give up playing standard Space Marines. There's just way too much flexibility with their lists already...and I'm guessing you'll get even more cool toys next time a Codex rolls out. I'm also guessing you won't have to wait too long for revisions- since you're playing their flagship army.

Hrm, and i thought the only people being punished were those who don't play spess muhreens ( or IG, IG is cool too ). Seriously, if you do not like what's in the vanilla dex then simply play one of it's variations.
One bunch of Emperor bothering psychopaths isn't that much different from another bunch of Emperor bothering psychopaths.

The standard codex has lots of stuff that most of the other codexes can't take, and is a really solid codex.

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:
If you play Codex Marines, you can play pretty much any of the codex books with only a few adjustments.

I don't really see anything about Codex: Dark Angels that would be hard to play "Counts As".

Ugh. Not generally advised.

 Kaldor wrote:
The standard codex has lots of stuff that most of the other codexes can't take, and is a really solid codex.

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:
If you play Codex Marines, you can play pretty much any of the codex books with only a few adjustments.

I don't really see anything about Codex: Dark Angels that would be hard to play "Counts As".

Ugh. Not generally advised.

Try to keep your personal preferences based on some bizarre hangup you have, classified as opinion, and not passed off as some kind of fact. Ultimately, there are very few differences between Red, Blue, and Green Space Marines aside from modeling aesthetics. With a bit of preplanned modeling choices, magnets, and a few supplementary models, a Space Marine player can use three or four codex books with no problem.

Why would enthusiastic players limit themselves?

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:
Try to keep your personal preferences based on some bizarre hangup you have, classified as opinion, and not passed off as some kind of fact. Ultimately, there are very few differences between Red, Blue, and Green Space Marines aside from modeling aesthetics. With a bit of preplanned modeling choices, magnets, and a few supplementary models, a Space Marine player can use three or four codex books with no problem.

Why would enthusiastic players limit themselves?

Sure. And I can just use chits of cardboard with 'space marine' written on it.

Doesn't make it a generally advisable idea, though.

 Kaldor wrote:

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:
Try to keep your personal preferences based on some bizarre hangup you have, classified as opinion, and not passed off as some kind of fact. Ultimately, there are very few differences between Red, Blue, and Green Space Marines aside from modeling aesthetics. With a bit of preplanned modeling choices, magnets, and a few supplementary models, a Space Marine player can use three or four codex books with no problem.

Why would enthusiastic players limit themselves?

Sure. And I can just use chits of cardboard with 'space marine' written on it.

Doesn't make it a generally advisable idea, though.

Why waste cardboard when you can play Paperhammer 40k?

Why waste time and paper and ink when you can spend 20 bucks total and get Dawn of War 1 and all its expansions?

 Kaldor wrote:

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:
Try to keep your personal preferences based on some bizarre hangup you have, classified as opinion, and not passed off as some kind of fact. Ultimately, there are very few differences between Red, Blue, and Green Space Marines aside from modeling aesthetics. With a bit of preplanned modeling choices, magnets, and a few supplementary models, a Space Marine player can use three or four codex books with no problem.

Why would enthusiastic players limit themselves?

Sure. And I can just use chits of cardboard with 'space marine' written on it.

Doesn't make it a generally advisable idea, though.

Yes because having actual space marine models in a different paint color is the same thing as pieces of cardboard with words on them...

Edit:I actually think that the codex:space marines is perfect and we aren't being punished at all.

Wow, you guys are just plain awful at analogies.


I guess we can consider that case closed. What if his Marines are purple? Then does he just get to play using none of the Codex books? Poor bastard.

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:
Wow, you guys are just plain awful at analogies.


I guess we can consider that case closed. What if his Marines are purple? Then does he just get to play using none of the Codex books? Poor bastard.

To be honest, I was trying to be a bit silly. Also, cardboard Marines reminded me of paperhammer. ^^

Purple? Probably he'd get to play FW's Horus Heresy as Emperor's Children. ^^

Once you use generic marines as any codex you want, there is no difference between those generic marines and any kind of counter or marker used to represent those units.

Of course, the rule of cool applies to this as it does to anything else. If you have a beautifully crafted custom marine Chapter, and the best rules to suit it are 'X' Chapters codex, then go for it.

Otherwise, it's not generally advisable.

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:
I guess we can consider that case closed. What if his Marines are purple?

Then he gets to play with the regular Space Marine codex.

Do try to keep up, darling.

It's ok, when they writes the Vanilla codex again, we'll get all the cool stuff from the other Marine Codices in some form or another.

Maybe nothing like the Deathwing Knights, or Sanguinary Guard, but stuff like Terminator Armies (First Company Captains (especially if the rumour is true and Captain Agemman is getting rules :O)), we already have Ravenwing armies. Maybe if Captains take Jump Packs they can make Assault Marines troops (Captain of the 8th), or even Shrike will get it tacked on.

Every Codex has generally been a less restrictive incarnation of the previous, so here's hoping, at least.

The vanilla codex might not have all the shiny new things or all the special rules, but it is solid. And you can do a lot of variations on that solid foundation by picking other units and selecting your HQ carefully.

Crazyterran wrote:
It's ok, when they writes the Vanilla codex again, we'll get all the cool stuff from the other Marine Codices in some form or another.

Maybe nothing like the Deathwing Knights, or Sanguinary Guard, but stuff like Terminator Armies (First Company Captains (especially if the rumour is true and Captain Agemman is getting rules :O)), we already have Ravenwing armies. Maybe if Captains take Jump Packs they can make Assault Marines troops (Captain of the 8th), or even Shrike will get it tacked on.

Every Codex has generally been a less restrictive incarnation of the previous, so here's hoping, at least.

If the vanilla gets all that, the chaos codex might as well give up on trying.

And thus we come back to the question "why are so many multiple marine books necessary when they're all so alike and people try to treat them all as one big book anyway?"

C:SM got a nice little flyer when 6th dropped. It may be pricey and a bit ugly, but at least you got a new toy while most others had to wait their turn.

That and as stated above, you're lucky enough that you can always just play your marines as Counts As X.

I'd like to see an Eldar player try and use them as Counts as Orks or anything else for that matter. A lot more leeway is required.