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I played Forza 4 extensively back when it released and I had a LOT of fun with the tuning and telemetry aspect of the game. I must have put in hundreds of laps around the Nurburgring trying to get my car just right and see if I could come close to the actual recorded lap times set by the professional drivers. So when my roommate brought home Forza Horizon (She's a store manager for a certain game retailer so she gets a ton of games for free) I was excited to try out their latest offering.
Unfortunately I'm a little disappointed. I mean, the game is a lot of fun, don't get me wrong, but it completely lacks the telemetry and tuning aspect that made Forza 4 such an awesome experience. I like the open world aspect of the game, I really enjoy the fact that it's all road tracks and the soundtrack and graphics are pretty good, but it would be really nice to be able to look at telemetry when I throw parts on a new car to make it competitive, and adjust things like camber, springs, dampers, roll bars, aero, etc...It's much easier to fix something like the back end getting squirly on a downshift when you can mess with the shift pattern and adjust tire thickness and camber based on heat distribution. Instead I have to spend thousands of credits blindly swapping parts. Of course I have a pretty good idea of how a given part will affect the car by now, but it's still a lot less precise than I like.
Despite all of that, the game is still entertaining. The music is a much bigger part of the game than it was in Forza 4, so you kinda get lost in it while you are just driving around listening to the in game radio, and after you make changes to a car it's pretty easy to go out and test them on the road without having to load a new track each time. The game is more visceral and pleasing to the senses for the average person which makes it more accessible I suppose. The scenery is nice.
Downsides are the lack of tuning I mentioned above, what appears to be a more limited car selection, and the fact that I cannot quickly access the auto show, garage and paint shop from a single menu. I actually have to drive from one to the other around this central hub which means I have to load the auto show to buy a car, re-load the game world when I'm done, drive to the garage, load the garage to upgrade the car, re-load the game world when I'm done, drive to the body shop, load the body shop to paint my car, re-load the game world when I'm done, etc...It feels a little clunky.
Anyway, are there any other Forza junkies out there? If so, what do you think of this one?
"Duty is heavier than a mountain, death lighter than a feather."
Sounds more like a game for people like me. I just wanna go fast and look at pretty graphics and have simple options like "put on part A and go fasta!"
But I can totally see where that would put off a guy who loves the tinkering aspect of a game.
Well part of the issue I have with the upgrade system is that you can "put on part A and go fasta" but the game still has a fairly realistic physics engine.
Here's an example I ran into last night. It's wordy so I'll put spoiler tags around the long description
Spoiler:
I purchased a Scion FR-S which is a solid car for the bracket I wanted to race in. It's got a 2L opposed flat 4 (boxter) engine, manual transmission and rear wheel drive on a car that costs $25,000 and it's stylish as hell. The game uses pretty much a 1-for-1 system for dollars to credits in the game for most vehicles except for top end models, so it was in the price range I wanted.
I upgraded the engine and transmission, put new tires on it, reduced the weight, added a rear wing spoiler, anti-roll bars, a new ignition system, exhaust, flywheel, drive shaft, camshafts, clutch, air intake. Basically the works, which put it right at the top of the A Class (Classes are F-A for road cars, then S for high performance road cars, and finally R3, R2 and R1 for purpose-built race cars).
The problem was, when I took it out, the back end lost grip the moment I downshifted from 4th to 3rd gear unless I was driving perfectly straight. The average player who has never used a tuning system in a game before and just wants to put parts on the car to make it drive fast would probably be frustrated as hell after spending 3-4 times the cost of the car in new parts trying to solve the problem. That, or they might just assume the car sucks and shelf it or sell it at a loss when there is a perfectly reasonable explanation for why it's doing that.
In Forza 4, I would have opened up the Nurburgring track, taken the car for a lap with telemetry active, and seen that the tires I was using were getting super hot, indicating that they were far too narrow for the massive amount of torque the car was putting out. When downshifting approaching a corner, the RPMs would redline going from 4th to 3rd gear because the power band had too much of a gap in that position. Basically all 350 horsepower was being transferred to the tires in an instant, causing them to break from the road and send me into a tailspin at the slightest touch of the steering wheel. Perfect for drifting, but terrible for normal racing. I figured this out pretty quick because I've had a lot of experience doing this in Forza 4, so I bought race tire compound, upgraded the rear tire width to maximum, front tire with to 3/4 maximum, and dropped the engine displacement and cam shafts down a notch to keep the car in the same class. It's much less squirrely now, but if I could also adjust the gearbox power bands and narrow them up (IE make it so that you don't lose as many RPMs when shifting up through each gear in the pattern, and don't gain as many downshifting, which keeps the engine in the power range in almost every gear) I could have solved much of the issue without having to spend as much money on tires.
TL-DR version - I bought a car and upgraded it for speed, but the back end kept sliding out on me when I downshifted (I play with no assistance. ABS/traction control off, manual transmission, no rewind). Without telemetry, it's hard to tell exactly what the problem is, and a player who is just playing for fun might assume the car sucks and shelf it or sell it at a loss when there is a relatively easy fix if you know where to look. With the physics as realistic as they are, not being able to look at what those physics are doing to your car turns the task of upgrading parts into guesswork even if you really know what you are doing. Also, not being able to adjust those parts means you have a lot less control over how the physics affect your car.
I dunno. It's a lot of fun, but I think they missed the mark on their target audience. It's too complex for the people who just want to drive fast while looking at pretty stuff and listening to music, but it's not complex enough for people who want a simulator. That said, the people who want a simulator might consider it a "handicap" to play without telemetry and tuning, and take it as a challenge, and the average player might also find it to be a good intro into more complex racing games.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/01/06 18:45:37
"Duty is heavier than a mountain, death lighter than a feather."
kenshin620 wrote: Me and my bro are big Top Gear junkies but sadly we have no xbox so cant currently enjoy the Forza franchise
So just wondering though, does the recent Forza have any Top Gear connections?
Forza 4 had Top Gear licensing, and a feature called the Autovista which would allow you to walk around any car in the game, open the doors, the hood and the trunk, get inside and look around, and click on highlighted points on the car which played an info clip about that part. Many of the cars actually had a special info clip that played a review by Jeremy Clarkson. Also, the game included the Top Gear studio as a background for your selected cars, and the Top Gear track as a playable course which had special challenges and events associated with it. There was even an achievement for driving a Laceti around the Top Gear track.
Unfortunately Forza Horizon lacks the Top Gear licensing, so there is no Clarkson color commentary. In fact, Horizon lacks a number of the features of Forza 4, but it replaces them with voice acted characters, music and an open game world which is actually kinda cool in some ways. It's incredibly frustrating in one specific way (You have to drive between the car shop, the garage and the paint shop, which means you have to load the world in between every stage of buying, upgrading and painting a new car) but otherwise its kinda fun to drive free form around various parts of Colorado.
Notably missing is the ability to quickly load a race track and test a car after upgrading it. If you want to test a car on a track, you have to load the world, then drive to the track or spend credits to fast travel nearby.
I ran into another problem with the plug-and-play parts feature last night which I think is kinda silly. If I upgrade the engine on a car to increase speed, and I don't upgrade to a race transmission (which sometimes is impossible or the car will be well outside the class it needs to be for a given race), I will basically only have 4 useable gears. 5th and 6th gear lose so many RPMs off the engine that you lose a ton of speed when you shift, and it takes forever to accelerate. This is why being able to fine tune the transmission is important, because it makes this problem nearly irrelevant. But without it, my car with a speed rating of 7.5 will only be able to use 4 gears and can't even compete with cars that have a speed rating of around 6.
It's annoying, but i cannot stop playing. Why?
"Duty is heavier than a mountain, death lighter than a feather."
Yeah not sure I understand that one. The VW Golf is actually a pretty cool hot hatch in my opinion. And VW makes Porsche which make some interesting cars....
"Duty is heavier than a mountain, death lighter than a feather."
I love the forza franchize and enjoy horizon but keep going back to 4 for the better driving and upgrading experience. Nothing like spending a hour fine tuning your gear ratios to beat a bughatti in a gtr and get accused of hacking. They did a great job with horizon though and I really liked finding all the barn cars and just driving around doing nothing
Overall, a mild disappointment. The game isn't terrible, but it feels like a suitably watered down Forza to turn away many of us who have played since the first.
Also, I miss the Veloster Turbo in Horizon. Its fun driving your car around in game and see how it matches up.
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Exalbaru wrote:I love the forza franchize and enjoy horizon but keep going back to 4 for the better driving and upgrading experience. Nothing like spending a hour fine tuning your gear ratios to beat a bughatti in a gtr and get accused of hacking. They did a great job with horizon though and I really liked finding all the barn cars and just driving around doing nothing
It's ALL about the gear ratios, and that's what I mist most with this game. It doesn't do me much good to have a 1,200 horsepower engine if when I shift from 6th to 7th gear I lose 4,000 RPMs and have to spend 3-4 seconds waiting for the power to catch back up. At least they got the Zonda R right in Horizon. It's lightning fast, maneuverable as hell and the gear ratios are acceptable. I'd still like the ability to fine tune them a bit, but it's a reasonable compromise for an R1.
It's also a bit difficult to tell when you have the wrong parts on a car. For example, last night I did an event where I had to have an A class Volkswagen, and the only one that really came close was the Sirocco R. I tuned it to an A, but the race transmission I had on the car was TOO good. It had absolutely no available power in 1st and 2nd gear, and it took me about an hour to figure out that the problem was the transmission. One look at the ratios would have told me what I needed to know. BAH!
On a side note, I find it a little frustrating that I have a Bugatti Veryon SS, but no place where I can reasonably max it without turning on Traction Control and Stability Control, and setting it to Automatic. The I-70 on the west end of the map is close, but the traffic makes it almost impossible to get up to full speed since you have to weave like crazy, and without TC/SC on, you can't really weave. Why give me a car that can do 270 and no place that I can actually do 270!?
Blacksails wrote:Overall, a mild disappointment. The game isn't terrible, but it feels like a suitably watered down Forza to turn away many of us who have played since the first.
Also, I miss the Veloster Turbo in Horizon. Its fun driving your car around in game and see how it matches up.
I miss the Veloster as well; I very nearly bought one of those about a year ago but I just couldn't justify the lower gas mileage on a daily driver. They DID add the Scion FR-S though, so I am happy about that. I would LOVE to have one of those.
"Duty is heavier than a mountain, death lighter than a feather."
that is true, we were very cheated on being able to upgrade and its so frustrating trying to get a good speed cam and being right near the end and sideswiping a freakin car. its rediculous
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/01/11 19:15:28
Exalbaru wrote: that is true, we were very cheated on being able to upgrade and its so frustrating trying to get a good speed cam and being right near the end and sideswiping a freakin car. its rediculous
This! This right here!
I took over a dozen runs at the speed camera on the south end of the I-70 and literally EVERY time there was a car in my way that I sideswiped at 240+MPH that slowed me down. The best I got was 214 at the camera. Apparently a guy on my friends list hit 272 at that camera, and I would very much like to know which car he used, and what settings he was using. I play with no TC/SC/ABS and manual transmission which is in my opinion the only way to play the game. If he was using those settings then clearly I need to step up my game, but if not, I don't feel so bad.
In the Zonda R I capped the speedo at around 210ish give or take and was able to miss all the traffic, and on the speed zone on the north end of the I-70 my average speed was around 205, but that same friend apparently got an average just north of 250. I MIGHT be able to match that in the Veyron SS. We'll see.
"Duty is heavier than a mountain, death lighter than a feather."
Chevrolet just unveiled the new 2014 Corvette Stingray. Wonder if we will see it as DLC later in the year. I've never been a big Corvette fan except for the Z-06 but this one looks promising, as long as they give it a reasonable suspension package. I hope they do add it cause I'd love to get an up close look at it in 3D. A dealership would take one look at my income and laugh me off the lot if I asked to see one =P
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/01/14 16:49:13
"Duty is heavier than a mountain, death lighter than a feather."
Exalbaru wrote: that is true, we were very cheated on being able to upgrade and its so frustrating trying to get a good speed cam and being right near the end and sideswiping a freakin car. its rediculous
This! This right here!
I took over a dozen runs at the speed camera on the south end of the I-70 and literally EVERY time there was a car in my way that I sideswiped at 240+MPH that slowed me down. The best I got was 214 at the camera. Apparently a guy on my friends list hit 272 at that camera, and I would very much like to know which car he used, and what settings he was using. I play with no TC/SC/ABS and manual transmission which is in my opinion the only way to play the game. If he was using those settings then clearly I need to step up my game, but if not, I don't feel so bad.
In the Zonda R I capped the speedo at around 210ish give or take and was able to miss all the traffic, and on the speed zone on the north end of the I-70 my average speed was around 205, but that same friend apparently got an average just north of 250. I MIGHT be able to match that in the Veyron SS. We'll see.
No way he was using those settings and hit that.
I agree thats the only way to play though. If I'm just cruising around mindlessly I'll turn traction back on but when I'm playing playing it goes back off. I cheat and use regular manual instead of clutch manual sadly. *so ashamed*
I don't use clutch manual because I'm using a controller. If I was using a wheel rig with a shift stick I would use the clutch setting. The standard manual setting basically emulates paddle shifters, which is what most race oriented cars want to have anyway, so I don't feel too bad playing that way.
When I was playing Forza 4 regularly (which I'm considering going back to now that I'm jonesing to tune my cars) I started with automatic and full TC/SC/ABS on. But then a few of my friends started playing with me on split screen, and we would do "man racing" which was all of the assists off. But none of us used manual and it was basically a slide fest around every corner. This got a lot worse when we would play with simulation damage. One day I decided to try the manual setting just to see how it worked, and it INSTANTLY made sense. All of a sudden I had full control over when my car shifted, so going into a corner I could downshift to the gear I wanted BEFORE the turn rather than having the car shift too slowly and downshift as I was approaching the apex, sending me into a tailspin as the back end broke loose. Within a half hour I was dominating every race with all of the assists off.
Basically, you have to do all or nothing. Either play with all of the assists on, or turn them all off and just go for it, because if you go halfway and leave some of the decisions to the computer, it'll go crazy on you. I have a couple friends who won't even try manual, no matte what I say, even though it would be so much easier. *Facepalm*
I wouldnt mind having an R32. Nothing else they make really interests me. Its just a scene around here, along with Civic ricers. I dont even take my car out anymore because of these idiots.
So if you load Multiplayer and set up free roam in a private game, there is no traffic, which makes hitting speed cameras that much easier.
The fastest car in the game from what I can tell is the Bugatti EB110 SS, which is a barn find. You can swap the engine for the one in the Veyron SS, and because the car is lighter than the Veyron, it's capable of a faster speed as long as you don't put a roll cage on it, and keep the tires light and small. It impacts handling, but straight line speed increases. I was able to hit 275 on a slight downhill, but at the speed camera the fastest I got was 271.27 driving on the wrong side of the road, which puts me in the top 6,000 fastest speeds. The fastest on the leaderboards is 275 and change, and I'm still not sure how they tuned the car to get that fast. You lose 2-3 MPH because there is a slight turn just before the camera, and you are traveling uphill.
I'll need to fine tune the car a bit, but I think I might be able to break 272 with a little luck. We shall see.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Edit: Apparently drafting will get you to the 275 mark on that camera but it takes a lot of practice. I'll have to give it a shot with a friend.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/01/18 22:32:28
"Duty is heavier than a mountain, death lighter than a feather."
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