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 Shadowclaimer wrote:

 lord_bobbington wrote:

 Shadowclaimer wrote:

 Goat wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:
GK do not appear as evil because they are "too good". GK are beyond bat-poo insanely fanatic and are pretentious without end...like, slaughtering helpless women and bathing in their blood.

They weren't helpless, they just got sucker punched.

And don't think they wouldn't have done it to any other Imperial squad if they needed to to get the job done, they're the Inquisition, they've killed for less necessary reasons.

Its why I've always found the rage against the fluff-bit hilarious, I'm pretty sure the rage stems from the fact its Sisters being killed and not IG, if it had been IG or hell, even other Marines, no one would've batted an eyelash.

So because they kill indiscriminately for their own belief that they're doing the right thing makes them pragmatic?

No, they're still evil, the marines who rebelled during the horus heresy thought they were doing the right thing too. Just because every other race is as evil doesn't make the grey knights good....in any sense. Which is the point, can you make evil grey knights? Sure, because there is no difference except for who's side they're on.

I never implied they were good, just that people tend to blow that particular event out of proportion even though its just another "day on the job" for Grey Knights.

I think the reason people get upset is not the killing, but the reason for it. The Grey Knights didn't kill the Sisters because they were tainted, or otherwise a liability. They killed them because the "incorruptible" Grey Knights were being corrupted and the only cure was the blood of the Sisters who were more pure than them. It very clearly puts the idea that Grey Knights are immune to chaos to rest, and that upsets people who were invested in that character trait.

There is no actual "good" race in 40k, it's "grimdark" after all with the Necrons already outmarking the doom that awaits the inferior races (like a bug seeing that foot's shadow slowly coming down to squash it).

GK aren't "good" by a very long shot either. They are religious fanatics who act according to their very own morals. See, a lot of people consider the Emperor the "good guy" despite the fact that he's dead and tons of innocents are slaughtered everyday "for the lulz".

 Griddlelol wrote:
I don't really see GK as too good. Killing innocent people just in case they have chaos taint isn't exactly the actions of a good guy.

Sure it is, the risk is too great otherwise. This isn't our happy universe where everything isn't trying to possess and or eat our souls.

Chrysis wrote:


I think the reason people get upset is not the killing, but the reason for it. The Grey Knights didn't kill the Sisters because they were tainted, or otherwise a liability. They killed them because the "incorruptible" Grey Knights were being corrupted and the only cure was the blood of the Sisters who were more pure than them. It very clearly puts the idea that Grey Knights are immune to chaos to rest, and that upsets people who were invested in that character trait.

Ward's GK codex clearly establishes that they Grey Knights are sorcerers, and that there is no such thing as "off limits dark magic" because it's all a matter of willpower. They remain incorruptible because they take every precaution, including sacrificing allies if they have to. Ward just got a little out of hand with his hyperbole, as he does.

Chrysis wrote:

 Shadowclaimer wrote:

 lord_bobbington wrote:

 Shadowclaimer wrote:

 Goat wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:
GK do not appear as evil because they are "too good". GK are beyond bat-poo insanely fanatic and are pretentious without end...like, slaughtering helpless women and bathing in their blood.

They weren't helpless, they just got sucker punched.

And don't think they wouldn't have done it to any other Imperial squad if they needed to to get the job done, they're the Inquisition, they've killed for less necessary reasons.

Its why I've always found the rage against the fluff-bit hilarious, I'm pretty sure the rage stems from the fact its Sisters being killed and not IG, if it had been IG or hell, even other Marines, no one would've batted an eyelash.

So because they kill indiscriminately for their own belief that they're doing the right thing makes them pragmatic?

No, they're still evil, the marines who rebelled during the horus heresy thought they were doing the right thing too. Just because every other race is as evil doesn't make the grey knights good....in any sense. Which is the point, can you make evil grey knights? Sure, because there is no difference except for who's side they're on.

I never implied they were good, just that people tend to blow that particular event out of proportion even though its just another "day on the job" for Grey Knights.

I think the reason people get upset is not the killing, but the reason for it. The Grey Knights didn't kill the Sisters because they were tainted, or otherwise a liability. They killed them because the "incorruptible" Grey Knights were being corrupted and the only cure was the blood of the Sisters who were more pure than them. It very clearly puts the idea that Grey Knights are immune to chaos to rest, and that upsets people who were invested in that character trait.

Immune to corruption does not equal immune to having your head explode from warp-magic. This has only been said like a million times, so it can't hurt to say it again.

Some people use the GK book to play them as the 'real' thousand sons, i.e. each marine is a psyker.

Example : http://www.coolminiornot.com/39705

 Seb wrote:
Some people use the GK book to play them as the 'real' thousand sons, i.e. each marine is a psyker.

Example : http://www.coolminiornot.com/39705

I am in love with this idea. However not the model lol

 Seb wrote:
Some people use the GK book to play them as the 'real' thousand sons, i.e. each marine is a psyker.

Example : http://www.coolminiornot.com/39705

The mini looks really bad IMO, but the idea of thousand sons GKs is pure win. I'd use the weapons from the GK boxes with the Chaos bodies. Just putting a Pharaoh mantle on a head isn't enough.

At one point I began collecting GK to run a Thousand Sons Counts-As force too. I lost interest after I had trouble building a fluffy list the way I envisioned it though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Boggy Man wrote:
There used to be a 5th canonical chaos god, Malal, who represented chaos' self-destructive nature. Someone on 1d4chan noted that Grey Knights with all their anti-demon bonuses ironically make the perfect stand-in for his cultists. Painting your knights black and white with chaos crosses might be an interesting look for them.

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Malal

awesome!

Far be it from me to step into the middle of a good-versus-evil-in-40k-debate (hint: heroes are only heroes by contrast), but why not use the pre-Ward fluff as a basis for an army? The fluff that spawned the Redeemer Force (drop a whole bunch of Grey Knights to seal off a Warp rift, then once the rift is closed kill all witnesses to the problem) was way more interesting and intelligently-written than Ward's "can do no wrong" Grey Knights, those of us who started the army before the newest Codex tend to stick to the older stuff where fluff is concerned.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Any attempt to stick Chaos symbols on Grey Knights and have them still be Grey Knights (even having them using the same models, since the Mk.VIII armor is supposed to be their unique thing) is on exceptionally shaky ground; it'd be a lot more plausible to put them into a situation where through misinformation and subterfuge they ended up fighting against loyal Imperial forces.

They're your models, do what you want. I can think of some extreme reasons why they would wear chaos symbols, but I don't see any allies understanding the reason and thus shun them at all costs.

I have actually done this very idea. Chaos Terminators with Grey knight arms, bloodletter swords for nemesis swords, chaos knights lances for nemesis halberds, the power mauls for daemon hammer.
I also have two daemon princes with forge world twin autocannons instead of arms as dreadnoughts.
I even have a dreadknight which has the lower half of a Soulgrinder and a forge world chaos renegade psyker being sacrificed as its pilot.
Everthing is WYSIWYG weapon wise and as someone has mentioned the fluff is the easy part.....Tzeentch cabal with bound daemons.....looks amazing as well.

I support the idea to use the Grey Knights rules and models to represent a Thousand Sons army, especially one that is Heresy Era. The biggest change would be to use the third party heads out there to give a greater Egyptian feel.

Someone came up to me with basically the same questions, some time ago. Had the idea of gk being killed off by some Chaos cult who then offers their armors to the predators of the Warp. Then, you have gk armors possessed by Chaos daemons. It even makes sense when you think about their psychic powers and stuff like that.
Hope it may help you.