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I have 6 Chaos Bikers. Was going to run all 6 in one squad, but thought maybe split them up and run 2 3x bike squads instead. Right now my 6 biker squad has 2x Meltaguns and champion with Power sword and combi melta. Maybe I could go 1x squad of 3x bikes with 2x melta, and 1 squad of 3x bikes with 2x plasma?

bikes work in small units with 2x special shooting weapons and MoN

They also work in large units with MoS and IoE, special weapons and a champ with a CC weapon. I like the lightning claw, especilly if you want to put a combi weapon on their.

Yea definitely doing MoN, I am going to try and keep them out of CC if I run the group of 6x if possible. The 2x Meltaguns are in place of their CCW. But they still have pistol just in case.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
That is another think I am contemplating...
T6 or FNP?

Obviously depends on what their purpose is in battle

My personal choice is T5, I5, FNP over T6,I4

 Goat wrote:
My personal choice is T5, I5, FNP over T6,I4

Would you give plasmas in that case or still meltas?

 Goat wrote:
My personal choice is T5, I5, FNP over T6,I4

I think IoE makes sense for 6+ bikers. Obviously for 10 it is much better to have init5 and FNP than T6.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Solomongrundy wrote:

 Goat wrote:
My personal choice is T5, I5, FNP over T6,I4

Would you give plasmas in that case or still meltas?

again i like plasmas on larger units. The larger units provide more wound catchers for the 15 point plasma gun and the extra twinlinked bolters add shots to the plasma which will both work against infantry. The melta on the other hand is probably going after tanks, and thus the bolters will be wasted.

I've been very dissatisfied with my T6 MoN bikers recently. I run them in a pack of 5 with a Chaos Lord with Burning Brand on a bike too, and these guys are attracting so much fire they literally melt in turn one, or by turn two, before they can do anything.

No matter what I'm doing with them, they get primaried and die when enough autocannons and plasma weapons are pointed at them. I wish they had 2 wounds apiece, but alas. I'm now debating running MoS bikers instead, and hoping that the additional FnP save will save me some more of them.

Anyone can share tactics on what they're been doing to improve the survivability of their bike squad? I was thinking of outflanking them rather than deploying them so that they don't attract so much weight of fire and potentially come in with the threat of my Heldrake and Terminators too.

try MoS bikers with a slaanesh cavelry lord for outflanking shenannigans

I run 8 bikes, 2 plasmas, champ with LC, MoK, Icon of wrath, Jugger lord with axe of blind fury and lvl 3 sorc hoping to get invisibility.

A death star... yes, but damn they look and are pretty good, specially on those games that i get invisibility on the sorcerer, T5 marines with 2+ cover save, not much can stop them from delivering the juggy, and by having a sorc and a champ I can administrate the challenges to make the most dmg out of the juggy

 Lord Yayula wrote:
I run 8 bikes, 2 plasmas, champ with LC, MoK, Icon of wrath, Jugger lord with axe of blind fury and lvl 3 sorc hoping to get invisibility.

A death star... yes, but damn they look and are pretty good, specially on those games that i get invisibility on the sorcerer, T5 marines with 2+ cover save, not much can stop them from delivering the juggy, and by having a sorc and a champ I can administrate the challenges to make the most dmg out of the juggy

Wow. That is a... really expensive lord-delivery-vehicle.

If doing two separate small squads why not have one plasma to handle meq and one melta to handle armour if that is all you have right now

I have also been disappointed with my bikers. They have died readily as Khorne bikers and as Nurgle bikers in units of 7 each. The Khornes made it into combat of course, but there are still just not very many wounds too suffer. So maybe that Slaanesh Icon is a good idea to try.

However I almost would rather run a Nurgle Mace Biker Lord with Nurgle Biker Psyker with Spawn. That's triple the wounds at T6, and the Biker shooting doesn't do much for me. So maybe the super small cheapo units are better as enemy irritants.

What else is pushing forward with them? If they are the only advancing aspect of your army no surprise that they attract all the fire. If i had spawn i would run them with the lord.

Working on small units of three nurgle bikers with flamers to be my anti horde solution. After playing against chaos daemons i have found that i can kill elites and vehicles all day. However when it just takes volume of fire then i come up short. Also combo nicely with epidemius once tthe tally is up. I have found that oblits do all the wounds towards my tally so design everyone else to benefit from it.

I've run two squads of three with melta guns. Very effective. Cheap enough that your opponent won't want to dedicate a lot of fire to them.

Having two squads means he can't unload on it with something super nasty or he will just be wasting a lot of fire power to kill three guys.

Four highly mobile melta guns with T6 and 3+ and an invulnerable open up a lot of tin cans before they die.

They only have to do ~100 points of damage to earn their points, and in the right place they can do much more than that.

Kevlar wrote:
I've run two squads of three with melta guns. Very effective. Cheap enough that your opponent won't want to dedicate a lot of fire to them.

Having two squads means he can't unload on it with something super nasty or he will just be wasting a lot of fire power to kill three guys.

Four highly mobile melta guns with T6 and 3+ and an invulnerable open up a lot of tin cans before they die.

They only have to do ~100 points of damage to earn their points, and in the right place they can do much more than that.

This maybe a stupid question, but where do they get the invulnerable from?

 Lord Krungharr wrote:
However I almost would rather run a Nurgle Mace Biker Lord with Nurgle Biker Psyker with Spawn. That's triple the wounds at T6, and the Biker shooting doesn't do much for me. So maybe the super small cheapo units are better as enemy irritants.

Nurgle bikers are, point for point, more resiliant than spawn. This is because the bikes have a 3+ save, and a 5+ jink making them much tougher to kill.

The spawn are better in assault. The round of assault, the gap is not much different -- but over protracted combats the bikes really fall short of the damage spawn can inflict!

Bikes are more flexable. They can shoot down FMCs or bring special weapons.

Yea I think I am going to run 2 squads of 3x Bikes
Not sure if I will run both with dual meltas or one with dual meltas and one with dual plasmas


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Since I am running 2 squads, I will need to figure out what I want to do for another champion. I am using a doom rider for the champion of one. What are others using as champions for their bike squads, if anything special?

Don't blame nurgle bikers if your not having success with them. Make no mistake, the bikers are good. They are not the problem.

If your getting your bikers shot up first turn every game, I have to wonder what your doing with them. Running them straight forward? Keeping them in the open?

Any unit dies when you use it wrong. Bikes are fast enough that you can reserve them and they still make it anywhere on the board during the game.

You dont just run them right at the enemy, you come from the flank, using your speed to stay out of range of most weapons and using LoS blocking terrain even if it means you take longer to get to your target.

I put 5 nurgle bikers with 2x plasma, veterans, and a LC in reserve and I use them to harass the enemy backfield late game.

I don't expect them to take on terminators in cc, or single handedly take out 30 boys.

Of course it also helps to have other threats on the board so that your opponent has more to shoot than 5 bikes.

My bikers generally out of LoS first, with 2 Havocbacks and (depending on the list I'm playing) either Maulerfiends or a Land Raider pushing up center. On turn 2, there's the chance Heldrakes will join in, and the bikers start to catch up because of their 12" speed. If they don't die on their first turn, they seem to get shot to bits by turn 2.

 labmouse42 wrote:

 Lord Krungharr wrote:
However I almost would rather run a Nurgle Mace Biker Lord with Nurgle Biker Psyker with Spawn. That's triple the wounds at T6, and the Biker shooting doesn't do much for me. So maybe the super small cheapo units are better as enemy irritants.

Nurgle bikers are, point for point, more resiliant than spawn. This is because the bikes have a 3+ save, and a 5+ jink making them much tougher to kill.

The jink save stacks on top of their armour save?

 Enigwolf wrote:
The jink save stacks on top of their armour save?

No, but you get to use it vs those PG shots that are much more common in 6th.

Enigwolf, could you provide some detail as to what generally happens when your losing your squad of bikes in 1 turn of shooting?

If your sending your bikes out in the middle of the table where your opponents whole army can shoot you, your doing it wrong.

What other threats do you have in your army that is allowing them to completely focus on your bikes?

What are the armies you are playing?

I can say from personal experience that my bikes don't do well vs DE... Massed amounts of poison that don't care about toughness is a tough match for my whole nurgle army.

 BarBoBot wrote:
Enigwolf, could you provide some detail as to what generally happens when your losing your squad of bikes in 1 turn of shooting?

If your sending your bikes out in the middle of the table where your opponents whole army can shoot you, your doing it wrong.

What other threats do you have in your army that is allowing them to completely focus on your bikes?

What are the armies you are playing?

I can say from personal experience that my bikes don't do well vs DE... Massed amounts of poison that don't care about toughness is a tough match for my whole nurgle army.

Going up against a Daemons list that basically wounds on a 4+ all the time, that one's a given. For the other, I went up against a GK Terminator list that deepstruck in the middle of the board onto a Skyshield he placed there, which proceeded to shoot up my bikers with Str 5 stormbolters and psycannons. In another game, they were simply plasma'd to death by a Space Wolf player who deepstriked with Wolf Guard firing combi-plasmas. Other than that, a C:SM player fired all his autocannons at the bikers from the start, and only bothered about my other transports and Maulerfiend on the next turn. I think there's something implicitly scary in my local meta about a Torrent AP3 flamer on a HQ with a bike squad that EVERYONE always shoot them the moment they appear. :/

I've generally tried to either advance them behind the tanks after a round of hiding in cover, or if playing by long table edge, I run them on the opposite side as my vehicles (although at this rate I might as well just outflank...)

 Solomongrundy wrote:

 Goat wrote:
My personal choice is T5, I5, FNP over T6,I4

Would you give plasmas in that case or still meltas?

I use Meltas because there is nothing worse than loosing a 35 point model to plasma overheat. Maybe now with FNP it might be worth the risk, but I've just been too burned on that before and the Melta never fails to perform when I needed it too.

I'd also like to point out that mathamatically T5 with 3+ save and 5+ FNP (slannesh bikers) is actually more survivable than T6 and 3+ save (nurgle bikers). Unless your getting pouned on by S10 in which case they are equal. So if your really intersted in surviving and your willing to spend the extra points for the FNP banner, Slannesh bikers are your go to guys. T6 is an illusion of toughness. Yeah it makes you smile to see bolters needing a 6 to wound, but the FNP saves tip the scales because at the end of the shooting phase, you will have actually lost fewer models.

 Jayden63 wrote:

 Solomongrundy wrote:

 Goat wrote:
My personal choice is T5, I5, FNP over T6,I4

Would you give plasmas in that case or still meltas?

I use Meltas because there is nothing worse than loosing a 35 point model to plasma overheat. Maybe now with FNP it might be worth the risk, but I've just been too burned on that before and the Melta never fails to perform when I needed it too.

I'd also like to point out that mathamatically T5 with 3+ save and 5+ FNP (slannesh bikers) is actually more survivable than T6 and 3+ save (nurgle bikers). Unless your getting pouned on by S10 in which case they are equal. So if your really intersted in surviving and your willing to spend the extra points for the FNP banner, Slannesh bikers are your go to guys. T6 is an illusion of toughness. Yeah it makes you smile to see bolters needing a 6 to wound, but the FNP saves tip the scales because at the end of the shooting phase, you will have actually lost fewer models.

actually T5 FNP is less surviable than T6 against S4 and that is it. (how much str2 is there out there) It is better against everything save St10 which is the same as you pointed out.

Also strX weapons like posion, well FNP is better.

My math (unless its wronge) says that the difference between T5 and T6 against S4 bolters is only 16% more casulties. Needing 5s to wound instead of 6s. But FNP gives us 33% of our lives back on failed saves which gives us a net survivability of 16% on the whole. Your taking 16% more wounds, but in fact are saving 33% more guys.

 Jayden63 wrote:
My math (unless its wronge) says that the difference between T5 and T6 against S4 bolters is only 16% more casulties. Needing 5s to wound instead of 6s. But FNP gives us 33% of our lives back on failed saves which gives us a net survivability of 16% on the whole. Your taking 16% more wounds, but in fact are saving 33% more guys.

the chance of getting a 5 or 6 is twice as likely as getting a 6. Thus against Str4, T5 is taking twice(100%) as many wounds as T6. Then FNP kicks in and 33% are saved. This works out to T5 FNP taking 33% more wounds than T6 against straight up str4.

Depends on what you want to do with them and what you see around a lot.

T6 Doesn't always help you with much more than T5 does, though I like how it protects a small unit that is first to get close from the small arms fire it draws.

Slaanesh bike squads are probably the best retinue for a bike lord or sorcerer if you are so inclined to make a pseudo deathstar unit but you'll want a lot of them to justify the cost and it's going to become expensive and a great target for your opponent.

3 Bikers make for a great little annoyance to your opponent able to move in quickly and tie something up and frustrate priority decisions with their low low cost and turbo boosting save. They are also something that cannot just be ignored because they can take 2 meltas and a combi weapon. 3 bikes can make a great slingshot for a lord too if you so choose, but that makes the decision to pour shots or a countercharge unit into them easier.

I like mine 100 points with a combi melta and 2 meltas or 118 points with the MON. They are one of the few obvious places to put an HQ in this book and I find that I spend enough points on expensive core units and fliers and tend to want some cheap MSU units that can do a job and maybe more at their minimal cost. Why spend more unless you are really excited about what you are getting? This sort of plan can be weird with secondary objectives though, but I play with rhinos so first blood is less of a problem.

ALMOST FORGOT:
You probably have tonnes of small arms fire, plasma, autocannons, vector strikes and AP3 templates in your list because it's what chaos does very well but perhaps not all that much in the way of dependable answers to hard targets. Bikes can do this for you. It's too bad they share such a good slot.

My biggest worry with Slaanesh bikes is that your icon can get sniped out by a precision shot.

At least with the Nurgle bikers, you never have to worry about their mark going.

 labmouse42 wrote:
My biggest worry with Slaanesh bikes is that your icon can get sniped out by a precision shot.

At least with the Nurgle bikers, you never have to worry about their mark going.

Not to mention that the Icon is 35 points. Even though MoN is 4 points more expensive per model, on a 3 man squad, the icon increases the overall squad cost by 23 points. If you're running a huge deathstar blob of bikers, the cost is a little more bearable, but not in a 3-man squad I think.

Has anyone ever tried to use a Bike squad for CC? What would your favorite loadout for such a role be and how successful has it been? I've typically given the BIke Champion a Power Fist while my Lord takes a Lightning Claw, or vice versa.

 Enigwolf wrote:

 labmouse42 wrote:
My biggest worry with Slaanesh bikes is that your icon can get sniped out by a precision shot.

At least with the Nurgle bikers, you never have to worry about their mark going.

Not to mention that the Icon is 35 points. Even though MoN is 4 points more expensive per model, on a 3 man squad, the icon increases the overall squad cost by 23 points. If you're running a huge deathstar blob of bikers, the cost is a little more bearable, but not in a 3-man squad I think.

Has anyone ever tried to use a Bike squad for CC? What would your favorite loadout for such a role be and how successful has it been? I've typically given the BIke Champion a Power Fist while my Lord takes a Lightning Claw, or vice versa.

the whole point of slanessh bikers is that you are going to take a large squad and use them for CC.

Hammer of wrath and then 3 attacks per base at init5 will wipe a lot before you get struck back.