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Hey people, I'm going to come off as a massive noob to you all but bear with me.

On New Years Eve my friend introduced me to Flames of War and we played some of the scenarios to an old Open Fire booklet or something, I had two S tugs and my friend had 2 Shermans and we had to race to a Sherman in the middle, if it helps round it down.

Anyways, I decided to start my British army off with a single Sherman I tank, I wanted to know if this was a good start to things and if there is any specific way I have to build my army since I haven't got a clue

Also, I know I'm getting cocky with the questions but is there a difference between the British Cromwell and the British Sherman tank? My friend said that they were exactly the same stat wise but I can easily see it being a trick

I should be going to Cardiff next month for Firestorm or something so I'm hoping I get punched in the face with raw experience from seeing things.

Thanks for any answers, I'm happy to explain anything if anyone wants.

Thanks again!

Have a look here http://easyarmy.com/ and have a look at one of the .pdf lists or the version 3 rulebook lists as they are all free. This will give you an idea of how armies are created as well as the sort of options that they will have. Basically you will need a minimum of 1 HQ and 2 combat platoons, you can then start taking extra combat platoon, support or weapon platoons. In small games 1 HQ and 1 combat platoon is sufficent.

There are 3 main types of armies; armoured, infantry or mechanised but there is considerable overlap in terms of unit choices. Most British lists are either armour or infantry as British mechanised lists are quite poor/need a lot of player skill to work. Most games are to around 1750 points but forces of 600-1000 points are a good starting point, so 5-8 shermans and some support.

A Sherman and a Cromwell have indentical stats and they have very similar capabilties. The Cromwell is a fast tank though as well as having the protected ammo rule so its a bit better.

Shermans are still useful and as they are more common than Cromwells so you should be able to find a use for it.

Canine Gallows wrote:

Also, I know I'm getting cocky with the questions but is there a difference between the British Cromwell and the British Sherman tank? My friend said that they were exactly the same stat wise but I can easily see it being a trick

The Cromwell was supposed to be a recce tank and was mainly used by recon units, though was still occasionally used as a main battle tank. Stat wise it's identical to the Sherman though really I believe it was supposedly faster. Both the Cromwell and most Shermans where equipped with 75mm guns.

As to where you should go, you should first talk to your opponents, or potential opponents, and decide on a mutual theater. This will affect the choices available to you and the miniatures and paints you will need.

If you intend to use Sherman's as a starting point then you are stuck with late 1942 onwards as the Sherman tank made it's debut for the British at El Alamein. Unfortunately it can get rather complex as there are allot of Sherman variants about, but if it's an M4A1 (the type I believe is in the old open fire set) then you should be fine to use that anywhere in the Mediterranean but I'm fairly certain that all the British Shermans in Normandy where M4A4 or the Firefly variant.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Starting_a_Flames_of_War_Force

Read, Inwardly digest....Any questions, then ask us!

Also PM me, I'm part of the Cardiff Wargames Club based in FIRESTORM and we have large Flames of War Fraternity.

Thanks for the repplies guys! I've been meaning to get back on and reply but college has been punching me in the face with my time table so I've been pretty tired this week! I expected this to be on the 10th page or something!

My friend has an older Open Fire! set from what I remember so he had a few Stugs and a few Shermans and from what I remember he was expanding on both armies so he would be able to play as both and since we both have sets from the late period our two other friends will probably do the same.

The Sherman I ordered got here and it's all painted but the thing is, I cut my thumb whilst trying to gut one of the barrels since it had all fluff on the base so I used another barrel that was supplied, I'm not sure if that's legal or if I crippled my tank though... and the actual turret had been glued to the tank before being packaged so it can't rotate I got it new in the box too!

It's crazy how helpful you guys are!

Thanks again!

This might have changed in 3rd edition, but I thought the Cromwell had the "light tank" rule, so it can move 16" in cross country terrain, instead of 12" like a Sherman. Isn't that still the case? Or is it called "fast tank" now?

Cromwells are light TAnks in Turning Tide.

The FOW board moves much slower than the 40k or Fantasy boards. I think that is evidence of how much more thoughtful and mature the conversation is on this side of things.

Sherman I? You are looking at doing mid-war, not so much late war, then?
If you were doing late war, you couldn't get a better start than the new Open Fire! Set. I'm not too sure how best to start British Armor mid-war.

col. krazy kenny wrote:Cromwells are light TAnks in Turning Tide.

Thanks, that's what I was thinking.

Anpu-adom wrote:The FOW board moves much slower than the 40k or Fantasy boards. I think that is evidence of how much more thoughtful and mature the conversation is on this side of things.

I think a lot of it has to do with there being fewer FOW and other historical players on Dakka and a lot more 40k, Warmachine/Hordes and just sci-fi/fantasy players in general.

 Hordini wrote:

col. krazy kenny wrote:Cromwells are light TAnks in Turning Tide.

Thanks, that's what I was thinking.

Anpu-adom wrote:The FOW board moves much slower than the 40k or Fantasy boards. I think that is evidence of how much more thoughtful and mature the conversation is on this side of things.

I think a lot of it has to do with there being fewer FOW and other historical players on Dakka and a lot more 40k, Warmachine/Hordes and just sci-fi/fantasy players in general.

Also that we are more helpful to the new player than the other forums,Sometimes i get the vibe that some of the members can be a snobish towards the New player.

I picked up this bad boy http://www.firestormgames.co.uk/flames-of-war/fow-british/588 the website said that it was a late-war period tank so I just went with it

I've had my eye on the Open Fire! set since it has oodles of stuff but then I'd be torn between the allies or the Germans who seem just as intresting but I really enjoy painting so I'd have a blast completing the set over the course of a few weeks and I suppose if it comes down to it, when we go to "reinforce" our armies me and my friend could buy two sets and split them

Cromwells are definatley sounding better than the Shermans by what you guys are saying it's just when I chose my tank it came down to if I had the paints and I only have two shades of green from my Ork army and the Sherman looked easier to paint, I didn't want to have a half finished Cromwell on the field


This part of the forum is definately more mature in regards to answers, I've seen some malicious hate towards newer members/players across the internet in the years and you guys were really friendly

All kinds of Shermans served in Normandy, most were Sherman Vs but earlier marques also so action as they were used to replace losses, in fact 4 armoured brigade was entirely mounted, at least initially, on Sherman IIs that were left over from North Africa.

Cromwells are painted exactly the same as Shermans

It makes me laugh when you say that, but then I go to the dedicated 40k thread and I see what you mean. Some of the back and forth insults are amazingly purile.

I tend to avoid the main forums on boards with a strong GW following. The signial to noise ration seems to be very low.

Palindrome wrote:
I tend to avoid the main forums on boards with a strong GW following. The signial to noise ration seems to be very low.

"Signal to Noise" I like this, this is being stored away for future use.

Overall i had the impression that the flames of war community is a lot older in the average than the 40k community. Im overall surprised how easy it was to start the game and how helpful the local players and the forums were. I always avoided to play in any store before. Instead of the typical TFG some people tend to meet when playing 40k at stores in regards to FoW i only met people who wanted to teach me how to play the game instead of trying to roflstomp me because im inexperienced.

Thats at least my impression so far. I was a bit worried about meeting crazy military enthusiasts (which is almost never a good thing here in germany) but this didnt happen.

 mwnciboo wrote:
It makes me laugh when you say that, but then I go to the dedicated 40k thread and I see what you mean. Some of the back and forth insults are amazingly purile.

Agreed; i tend to just read and not post as much there, especially with any kind of query as the probability of a snarky answer is exponential in regards to either your low-post count or the amount or type of questions you ask lol!

 ThirdUltra wrote:

 mwnciboo wrote:
It makes me laugh when you say that, but then I go to the dedicated 40k thread and I see what you mean. Some of the back and forth insults are amazingly purile.

Agreed; i tend to just read and not post as much there, especially with any kind of query as the probability of a snarky answer is exponential in regards to either your low-post count or the amount or type of questions you ask lol!

Wow thanks from all of us,I think we have a compliment.?
yeah,i quit 40k after a solid 15 year run. Sorry, alot of the players are just power gamers and GW is slowly pricing people out of the game.When the Current LAnd raider kitsstarted at 45$ increased 75$.is a bit crazy. So that is the one thing i do like about Flames of WAr is that most players are in it for the fun of Playing.

 col. krazy kenny wrote:

 ThirdUltra wrote:

 mwnciboo wrote:
It makes me laugh when you say that, but then I go to the dedicated 40k thread and I see what you mean. Some of the back and forth insults are amazingly purile.

Agreed; i tend to just read and not post as much there, especially with any kind of query as the probability of a snarky answer is exponential in regards to either your low-post count or the amount or type of questions you ask lol!

Wow thanks from all of us,I think we have a compliment.?
yeah,i quit 40k after a solid 15 year run. Sorry, alot of the players are just power gamers and GW is slowly pricing people out of the game.When the Current LAnd raider kitsstarted at 45$ increased 75$.is a bit crazy. So that is the one thing i do like about Flames of WAr is that most players are in it for the fun of Playing.

My experience exactly; had played 40k since the days of 2nd edition back in '94 and ever since mid-to-late 5th edition, I've found myself "priced-out" by it and my interests waning with "frenzied" players and total arbitrary reconstructions of background material just to feature the new flavor of the month/year.

Ever since getting into FoW and other historicals, it's as it should be; a mature gaming experience with multiple purchasing options that isn't driven by a monopoly on a certain "genre". Plus I'm a hsitorical buff anyway, so it just plays to my interests. All of the players take pride in their forces and do them correctly to the best of their ability. It's about the look and feel as much as the potency in the army. I tend to favor Aldramech's views on gaming as I believe in playing scenarios and points-be-damned. However, I still do the points-style system when doing pick-up games and the occasional tourney.

I was at Millennium Con in Austin back in November and I really enjoyed checking other players' forces out. I took my Italians as it was a Mid-War tourney, but I think I ran into only two players that had that "40k mentality" in regards to playing the games. It wasn't a big deal as the majority of the players were really accomodating and less "tense" about trying to win the thing. It was about matchups to see how forces did against one another.

To me it's been a breath of fresh air and I don't think I'll tire of it any time soon; I'm already getting into Napolean at War as I like their rules and miniatures, although there are other 18mm manufacturers out there much like WWII histroicals.

 mwnciboo wrote:

"Signal to Noise" I like this, this is being stored away for future use.

It should of course be ratio and not ration...

I enjoy scenario's rather than random match ups.

There is a guy at our club who does the Battlefront Firestorm campaigns. Where each battle affects the overall campaign.

It's great getting 10 players (5 axis and 5 Allied) with all the forces for Market Garden, then appointing a general to each side and you start off with 1500 points each, and then the General gets alot of assets to gift out to each other.

It's amazing fun when they say "Can you hold the Airfield?" "Yeah my Infantry can dig in there, but I could do with some extra AT incase the Guards Armoured push through?" "Okay have this pair of 88's" from the General. Then another player pushing for Arnhem Bridge might get "A pair of SS Tigers". It's equally fun from the Allies get say "4 x M10C".

It makes winning or losing vital, because it affects the whole campaign, so when I hold up 2000pts with only 1500pts and force the draw everyone else has the pressure off, and can take advantage. Some of us are better in defense than attack, others are brilliant Mechanised Commanders, or lead FJ's or Paratroopers. It's my favourite type of game as everything is interlinked and not just stand alone games. The other thing is that with the Kampfgruppe we aren't too picky about lists, so we all pool lots of forces and create forces out of massive amounts of German Armour and kit. The new Bridge by Bridge book obviously has more historical lists so we will probably use that in future.

Sorry to revive a dead topic but I have stumbled across something that worries me and I wanted to ask you guys for some advice/help again...

Me and my friend were discussing FoW and he said that he was mainly collecting for a German army and he said he needed atleast 11 StugS or something and he said how he didn't want to get the Tigers because they are too expensive points wise.

Now reading up on FoW it said that the Germans are a better army for beginners because they are forgiving and stuff like that and it said that the storm trooper ability will get them out of tricky situations and stuff.

Now I'm not a sly guy and I'm not going to choose a different army to counter his army which I presume will be mainly transport, infantry and some big guns but I want to ask if there's anything I should look out for and if there's anything in particular I should avoid?

So far I'm thinking about buying 5 PSC Sherman tanks for £15 and maybe shell out for another 5 if I have to, then go on and get some mortars and big guns or something so I have something to combat the tanks since I wanted to have a lot of infantry.

I couldn't get that easy army website to work since it keeps asking for a donation and I figured you guys would know best.

Sorry for the decently structured wall of text though, I'm incapable of shortening down what I write, literally wrote over 1,000 words on an article when I was only meant to write 800 but I feel it's better to make things clear than to leave the question half finished.

Germans are forgiving for beginners right up until 25% of your force gets wrecked in a single airstrike, you will likely never even match your opponent in numbers. The game is pretty balanced for all factions but if anything I would recommend a beginner avoid playing USSR. Shermans are a good start they set up you for playing any of the main Allied nations.

Canine Gallows wrote:
stuff

Any of the major nations can make a good starting army. A standard infantry company works well as it tends to have a bit of everything and is quite resilient (for the USSR then I would advise that you start with tanks though).

A British Rifle company is at least as good a starting list as a German Panzer kompanie. I would avoid mechanised forces and heavy tank armies until you know how the game works though.

On easy army the V3 lists and all of the .pdf lists are free.

Thanks for the replies guys, actually gutted I couldn't get online earlier though! Went out and bought an old Finnish gas mask and returned a college camera.

MarsNZ, just wandering but I get the feeling that I'm expecting a large amount of infantry, so do the German troops cost less points to use on the field and if they do, will that mean that they have lower stats than simular infantry types in different armies?

Oh, I can't find the V3 bit on easy army, I was looking through and the British parachute company sound really tasty and just guessing but it sounds like I might be able to field a plane or something.

Dang I need to find a rule book online!

EDIT: Oh shoot sorry about that, I figured out the easy army site the moment after I sent this! You have to pay for the lists with the little shopping bags next to them!

Canine Gallows wrote:
Thanks for the replies guys, actually gutted I couldn't get online earlier though! Went out and bought an old Finnish gas mask and returned a college camera.

MarsNZ, just wandering but I get the feeling that I'm expecting a large amount of infantry, so do the German troops cost less points to use on the field and if they do, will that mean that they have lower stats than simular infantry types in different armies?

Oh, I can't find the V3 bit on easy army, I was looking through and the British parachute company sound really tasty and just guessing but it sounds like I might be able to field a plane or something.

Dang I need to find a rule book online!

EDIT: Oh shoot sorry about that, I figured out the easy army site the moment after I sent this! You have to pay for the lists with the little shopping bags next to them!

On easy army the v3 forces list and the free pdfs from the battlefront hp are free to use. You have to set the source to "Flames of War v3 Forces" to find them directly.

The army lists that are included in the books battlefront sells become available when you donate a small fee on a per book basis. For example if you want to use lists from the "Turning Tide" supplement you have to donate 1 Dollar. Afterwards you are able to use all of the lists that are included in the book.

The books are really good and i bought my copy of turning tide after unlocking it on easy army just for the sake of it. If all you want are the rules and points costs you can go for easyarmy and pay 1$ for the content of a 40€ Book. The site is supported by battlefront so its no problem to do that copyright wise.

Palindrome wrote:

Canine Gallows wrote:
stuff

Any of the major nations can make a good starting army. A standard infantry company works well as it tends to have a bit of everything and is quite resilient (for the USSR then I would advise that you start with tanks though).

A British Rifle company is at least as good a starting list as a German Panzer kompanie. I would avoid mechanised forces and heavy tank armies until you know how the game works though.

On easy army the V3 lists and all of the .pdf lists are free.

I would go the other way and say Tank forces are easier to learn, Infantry takes time and skill to perfect. At the entry level a tank force is the quickest and easiest way in, and often its the cheapest too. A Simple British Sherman list, is cheap as anything. Get to grips with the basics of engaging with Tanks, before moving onto Infantry, Mechanised Infantry, etc, etc. Infantry can be difficult to use without some one to show you the way, and it can be very dispiriting to see you infantry cut to ribbons, because you don't know how to optomise your defence or how to use smoke and pinning effectively, as well as artillery and AT guns.

Get Open Fire....Sell off the Germans and US infantry, buy another set of Open Fire Shermans or trade with someone. Sorted....Loads of Shermans.

 mwnciboo wrote:

I would go the other way and say Tank forces are easier to learn, Infantry takes time and skill to perfect.

Thats the point though. My first army was a Panzer kompanie, quite a generic one as it turned out and I would have been much better off starting with Grenadiers. Tanks are easy to use but the list themselves are not kind to beginners as they usually lack the obvious tools to do much more than steamroll things. As a result I lost a lot more games than I won to the extent that it was getting tedious so I fairly quickly switched over to infantry armies and my Panzers haven't seen a tabletop since.

Canine Gallows wrote:


MarsNZ, just wandering but I get the feeling that I'm expecting a large amount of infantry, so do the German troops cost less points to use on the field and if they do, will that mean that they have lower stats than simular infantry types in different armies?

Yes an no, there are specialised lists that focus on the poorer quality troops Germany was desperately recruiting towards the end, but for the most part German infantry is superior to Allied troops and pay for that superiority accordingly. Against a British Rifle Co. in the old edition my foot slogging SS were outnumbered around 2.5:1, and won.

Ah bugger, I knew my mate had something up his sleeve I'm going to be flooded with German infantry, it's going to be like Saving Private Ryan all over again! It might seem rude but is there any way to efficently take down large amounts of infantry? I feel like I'm asking the best here!

Actually, I might buy Open Fire! I mean, the rule book will help in the long run but to buy it only to sell the Germans off.... I dunno.... I'm trying to take it slow with this hobby, I have a full four weeks before me and my friend actually have a battle and I'm getting paid next Monday and I'll be getting paid a fourtnight after again so I might spend small amounts on models then when I have the money for Open Fire! for spending I could get it then... I dunno....

I mean, I know how handy the rule book is for these type of games, I mean, I essentially played my first ever game of 40K Saturday morning (so I could do a battle report for my article assignment).... turns out 4 Space Marines couldn't really hold up against 6 Orks... they did okay... but in the end they only made it out alive because the Orks got distracted by a squad of Chaos Cultists.

I bought a British Glider Pilot Platoon online and I have to ask... are these guys any good? I heard about parachute squads and stuff being able to land anywhere and I thought "wow! these guys sound good" they were the closest thing I could find relating to parachutes....