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A lot of the time, there's a lot of people interested in a game, but no-one plays it because nobody else plays it--nobody wants to jump first. I've found that setting up some kind of campaign or league (say, a slow-grow) with a public sign-up on the group's forums helps with this a lot.

I play Games Workshop games because that's what the people at my FLGS play, and I like the playing part. Specifically, I play 40k because that's what the people play. I own a small High Elf Army (GW Fantasy) that I haven't put together because there isn't much interest in Fantasy side.

I own a Warmachines Khador army and I own a small Malifaux Crew, I've played one game of each system and really enjoy it. Of all of my non-GW models, only one is painted well enough that I would call it done. Over half of my GW 40k models are painted to what I would call table-top quality the rest have been primed and have the large areas painted but details visible from a foot away, like eyes, may not be done. I paint the models to enhance my enjoyment of playing the game.

If there were a bunch of people who played all the games around here, I think I would play a lot less 40k (and would have bought a lot less 40k models). In general, I like the Warmachine models the best. I like how they assemble and the Khador models look really good. I like the Malifaux game mechanic the best of all 3.

So what I need is the guys/gals at my FLGS that play 40k to switch over to playing a game like Malifaux with Privateer Press models.

Though I voted "1", I completely understand those who play GW games, mostly or entirely.

As well as the fluff, models, etc, GW games come with a built in player base, lots of opportunities for sharing the hobby, and a pretty strong guarantee that while there's a small chance of squatification, the game you're playing will not be dying next year.

That's a pretty valuable package of benefits. Though I prefer to pay less and play lots of other games. The reasons above have convinced me to keep my two 40k armies. If my gaming group ever falls apart or I move somewhere less populated, GW might again be my best bet for regular gaming.

ClockworkZion wrote:

CptJake wrote:
Where does this idea that "most of the other minatures games out there are skirmish games" come from?

I'm not sure it is a very accurate statement...

Outside of the Historical games a lot of the games we see mentioned a lot (Hordes, Infinity, Warmachine) are small unit skirmish games. Those are the ones I was referring to personally.

I think that's because, due to price and space, most wargamers outside of GW's influence see 28mm and larger scales as 'skirmish' - GW (and now Mantic) are really the only companies that try to push a lot of stuff on a 6x4 table. In 28mm scale, you'll either see other wargames tend towards larger tables, or smaller combat.

Smaller scales - 20mm, 15mm, 10mm, 6mm, 3mm - are generally what people consider 'large action' scales, where you fight the kind of battles 40k and WHFantasy want to be.

Simple answer to topic: nothing.

IMO, WH40K has its main interest in converting/tinkering with/painting a unique army.
I also like the setting (although the feel is a distinctively different one, now, from the one it was 20 years ago).

Playing-wise, I am quite busy with Infinity and Warmahordes, and various board and video games, and have not much time left or interest in playing the unbalanced dice feast of WH40K.

I don't say that it cannot be fun, I know it can, but the game is not what makes WH40K unique or interesting.

I prefer Battletech, and really enjoyed Vor, but most players I know only play 40K so I am stuck with that. I am, however, getting a few of them to consider Battletech.

I don't like smaller scale games, it being my personal opinion, not saying they are bad.

I look at people playing 15mm Flames of War and I think: sure they are good miniatures, they're painted to correct historical colours and you get tons of them cheaply, but it doesn't do 'IT' for me. You're just pushing basically infantry counters and vehicles and rolling dice.

Go even smaller and there's even less individuality.

So that's leave 'skirmish' scale games. I prefer the slightly goofy, over-the-top look of older GW models. I know the rules aren't great, the editing is bad, the proofreading/testing non-existent, but that doesn't matter. I have fun modelling, painting and playing mostly casual games.

I'm well aware other games/manufacturers might have better sculpts, better rules or better support, but WH40k fills my niche already and I only have so much time/money to support my hobby without branching off into a dozen new game systems/model lines.

Because strangely enough, besides tabletop wargames I also have a lot of other hobbies which need time/money.

Maybe in the future when I'm tired of it I'll try something else, but just as likely I'll pick up some other hobby for a few years and my armies sit in the closet again to await that shiny new 9th edition 40k.

For me it's a combination of the options: I have and do dabble in other games; Warmahordes, Brushfire, Necromunda. However, my friends don't want to start new games, even Fantasy, so I'm alone. Therefore, most of my time is spent on 40k.

As much as I HATE certain elements of GW's systems, I tend to find other elements in other systems MORE annoying. Like, I may dislike flyers in 6th edition, but I LOATHE WarmaHorde's "snipe the HQ to win" gameplay.
I Literally loved almost everything about the rules in that game, still do love the models, and like that they release new models for every army at a decent rate; however HQ-kill win condition, coupled with a 4mm tall model on a round based blocking line of site to a 28mm model on the same size base, drove me nuts!

Looking forward to see the final version of Relic Knights. I hope it ends up great. If it does, I might even thin my herd of GW models a bit. Having said that though, GW also has a really fun story/environment in my opinion that adds to the draw of their game over many others.

Also, like others have said, player base = what gets played often. It's the reason why I play 40k almost exclusively even though I like fantasy just as much.

I tend not to branch out to other games due to a significant issue around ease of entry.
What do I mean?

First.
When I started 40k, it was with a group of four other completely new players. None of us had ANY idea how to play. When we went to game stores, the people playing weren't interested in teaching us, as it would intrude upon their game time. So we had to really slog though the extremely complicated rule set, making tons of mistakes along the way, and generally being confused and frustrated the whole time. Our first few 500 pt games took 8,7,8 hours respectively. If it weren't for the determination of the entire group, I doubt we would have individually suffered through that more than once. With that said, I have had an interest in learning Warmachine, Infinity, and Dust, but all the same things apply. No one at our local gaming stores are interested in teach, since it takes away from their fun time, and I'm certainly not interested in slogging though more horrible new player learning curve games. I doubt I'd go though this for any other hobby, and if I had it to do over, with fair warning, I'd probably not have started 40k.

Second.
Price. Investing in a new army is no small financial feat. Even if it's just a demo army, I'm going to probably drop $50 to $100 just to find out if I like it or not. Sure, my local stores have "demo armies" but what good are those? I still have no one to play against other than my friends who also don't know the systems, and now we are back to my first point. That's only if the store has TWO demo armies. And mine do not.

The truth is, I LOVE wargaming, but I HATE the difficulty to entry. Thus, no new games.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Breotan wrote:
I refuse to buy metal figures. GW makes enough plastic and their sculpts are still the gold standard in the industry.

Malifaux has lured me with their siren song now that the Ten Thunders are being done in plastic. Warmahordes tempted me but that plastic/resin stuff they use isn't a whole lot better than metal. The models are as horrid to deal with as the original metals were. :(

I pledged into Sedition Wars, Kingdom Death, Kings of War, DreamForge, and Through The Breach all because of the plastic models they include.

That's why.

And this. I really dislike metals, and the PVC that Warahordes uses. My wargame modeling practically LIVES by polystyrene and plastic cement. When I built a Menoth starter set, and plastic cement didn't work, I almost gave it away. I loathe super glue.

Warhammer 40k has great lore and a really nice scale. Apocalypse looks like great fun! Smaller skirmish games just don't appeal to my inner tank commander. I like Flames of War as a concept but their models are so.. ehhh. Not bad but not good either.

I like the look of Mantic Games but that's about it. My wargame of choice is a sci-fi 28mm all plastic wargame so obviously my main game will be 40k. Also my local GW is 5 mins away but the local FLGS is a train ride away.

I'm so heavily invested into GW models it would be hard to justify starting another system.

Poll needs an option for "I play GW games because I can't find players for other games."

 warboss wrote:
Poll needs an option for "I play GW games because I can't find players for other games."

So... the 5th option?

 lucasbuffalo wrote:

 warboss wrote:
Poll needs an option for "I play GW games because I can't find players for other games."

So... the 5th option?

Nope. I'm not just talking about friends or the local store meta but rather the entire state. I'm talking about not finding complete strangers many miles away for certain games (and not small homebrew ones either).

 Peregrine wrote:
Your poll is terrible. The options are biased, and you don't allow an option to give multiple reasons.


Anyway, for me it's simple: GW is the only company that produces a complete 28mm scifi game with multiple armies, tanks, etc. Other companies either produce a handful of models (usually intended to be used with 40k), or are infantry-only skirmish games that I'm not really interested in. So pretty much it's GW/40k or end up with a bunch of random models and a mess of a house rule system to make everything work properly. IOW, a game that I can only play with a few specific friends, not in random pickup games.

And I know that the "completeness" factor is better for fantasy and historical games, but neither of those genres are very interesting to me.

Kinda harsh. I agree there aren't many options for 28mm army games but they are out there. Dust tactics has a great rule set with 3 complete factions and more on the way this year. You can get a basic size army (1500 pnt equivalent) for like 100 bucks and they look great. Dystopian legions is new and growing as is Mantic games warpath.

I play all sorts. I've been gaming for over 25 years but only started 40K three years ago. I play Role-Playing Games mainly but also 40K, Star Wars Minis, Heroclix, board games and the very occasional computer game.

Wargaming wise I play 40K because I like it, I like the models and I like GW stores. Amongst my friends there is no this vs that when it comes to gaming, only what do we play tonight?

 R3con wrote:
I'm so heavily invested into GW models it would be hard to justify starting another system.

This makes zero sense unless you're afraid that you'll like the other system more and sell your GW stuff at a loss.

Trying another system doesn't make your GW stuff explode, nor does it mean you may never play another GW game again.

Playing another companies game just means... you get the option of playing another companies game.

And with some games, you can use your GW figs with no problem....

Gotta agree, the whole "I'm so heavily invested in GW, I can't start other games" is a total fallacy.

I've only just came back to GW from a many-year hiatus. Whilst I'm enjoying myself, the fact there are a number of competitors out there that weren't there before, many with a more reasonable pricing, is drawing my eye.

I suspect I'll pick up the War Machine starter set before too long.

I've been playing GW games for 20 years, I'm way too invested in the fluff and spent too much on it to give it up for something else. It'd be like getting a divorce...

I like to dabble with other systems, and am pretty heavily invested in a few.

However, when I start a new game, I don't expect anyone else to pick it up, and I work really hard to get what I need for two forces.

Due to the expense of this, it is no surprise that I prefer smaller games with a lower model count, or smaller scales where you can ge ta decent sized force relatively cheaply.

Fenrir Kitsune wrote:
Gotta agree, the whole "I'm so heavily invested in GW, I can't start other games" is a total fallacy.

I don't totally agree with this. I agree that you could always try a new ruleset with the figures that you have, and playing other games doesn't keep you from playing GW.

Perhaps instead of "can't start other games" maybe it could be "I have no reason to start other games" . After all, if you like the games, already have a ton of GW that you've painted over the years, and people you like playing with, why would you switch?

Eilif wrote:

Fenrir Kitsune wrote:
Gotta agree, the whole "I'm so heavily invested in GW, I can't start other games" is a total fallacy.

Perhaps instead of "can't start other games" maybe it could be "I have no reason to start other games" . After all, if you like the games, already have a ton of GW that you've painted over the years, and people you like playing with, why would you switch?

Well, you don't have to switch from one at the cost of another, just play both!

Fenrir Kitsune wrote:

Eilif wrote:

Fenrir Kitsune wrote:
Gotta agree, the whole "I'm so heavily invested in GW, I can't start other games" is a total fallacy.

Perhaps instead of "can't start other games" maybe it could be "I have no reason to start other games" . After all, if you like the games, already have a ton of GW that you've painted over the years, and people you like playing with, why would you switch?

Well, you don't have to switch from one at the cost of another, just play both!

But if your current game already gives you everything you wan't, then what reason do you have to try another one?

PhantomViper wrote:

Fenrir Kitsune wrote:

Eilif wrote:

Fenrir Kitsune wrote:
Gotta agree, the whole "I'm so heavily invested in GW, I can't start other games" is a total fallacy.

Perhaps instead of "can't start other games" maybe it could be "I have no reason to start other games" . After all, if you like the games, already have a ton of GW that you've painted over the years, and people you like playing with, why would you switch?

Well, you don't have to switch from one at the cost of another, just play both!

But if your current game already gives you everything you wan't, then what reason do you have to try another one?

Something new? Something Fresh? Variety?

"I like curry, therefore I am only going eat curry from now etc etc"

After 20 years with GW, its all getting a bit stale...............

Fenrir Kitsune wrote:

PhantomViper wrote:

Fenrir Kitsune wrote:

Eilif wrote:

Fenrir Kitsune wrote:
Gotta agree, the whole "I'm so heavily invested in GW, I can't start other games" is a total fallacy.

Perhaps instead of "can't start other games" maybe it could be "I have no reason to start other games" . After all, if you like the games, already have a ton of GW that you've painted over the years, and people you like playing with, why would you switch?

Well, you don't have to switch from one at the cost of another, just play both!

But if your current game already gives you everything you wan't, then what reason do you have to try another one?

Something new? Something Fresh? Variety?

"I like curry, therefore I am only going eat curry from now etc etc"

After 20 years with GW, its all getting a bit stale...............

For you and me and various other people, yes, that might be true. Because GW doesn't offer us what we are looking for in mini-wargaming anymore.

But you have to concede that that reasoning might not apply to some other people. For some people GW still gives them all that they wan't from our hobby and there is much to be said about human resistance to change coupled with the comfort of familiar rules / models / universe.

PhantomViper wrote:

Fenrir Kitsune wrote:

PhantomViper wrote:

Fenrir Kitsune wrote:

Eilif wrote:

Fenrir Kitsune wrote:
Gotta agree, the whole "I'm so heavily invested in GW, I can't start other games" is a total fallacy.

Perhaps instead of "can't start other games" maybe it could be "I have no reason to start other games" . After all, if you like the games, already have a ton of GW that you've painted over the years, and people you like playing with, why would you switch?

Well, you don't have to switch from one at the cost of another, just play both!

But if your current game already gives you everything you wan't, then what reason do you have to try another one?

Something new? Something Fresh? Variety?

"I like curry, therefore I am only going eat curry from now etc etc"

After 20 years with GW, its all getting a bit stale...............

For you and me and various other people, yes, that might be true. Because GW doesn't offer us what we are looking for in mini-wargaming anymore.

But you have to concede that that reasoning might not apply to some other people. For some people GW still gives them all that they wan't from our hobby and there is much to be said about human resistance to change coupled with the comfort of familiar rules / models / universe.

Very true. I like to sometimes throw down a large 100-150 model army onto the table and blow the crap out of things, sometimes I want to play an elite strike force of 8-10 people going in with a set of defined objectives.

GW only provides the living rules for one of these things nowadays.