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Hey guys, just curious to see your opinion on who would win out of Emperor's Champion or Castellan Crowe?

Either on the tabletop, or in the fluff. Or both.

Looking forward to seeing what you think

-Gmao

Tabletop Crowe wins. Fluff-wise the Emperor's Champion wins. He's guided by the Emperor, after all.

I am definitely BT-biased, but Im gonna go with Crowe on this one. EC is only a jumped up Sergeant with better gear. There are plenty of Elites and HQs in the BT roster, named and unnamed who could take an EC out for comparison.

Sigismund would steamroll Crowe however.

Crowe, and even if you kill him he takes you with him.

Tabletop: Crowe rends on 4+, the EC is only AP3. So the EC gets his 4+ invuln, Crowe gets his armor.

Ok, math time.


Crowe gets an average of 2 attacks a round. Hits on 3s, wounds on 4s, EC saves on 4s. 2(2/3)(.5)(.5) = .3333 wounds per round. average of 6 rounds to kill the EC.

EC gets 2 attacks per round(IIRC). Hits on 4s, wounds on 2s, Crowe saves on 2s. = .138 wounds per round. Average of 14.4 rounds to kill Crowe.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Crowe, and even if you kill him he takes you with him.

Tabletop: Crowe rends on 4+, the EC is only AP3. So the EC gets his 4+ invuln, Crowe gets his armor.

Ok, math time.


Crowe gets an average of 2 attacks a round. Hits on 3s, wounds on 4s, EC saves on 4s. 2(2/3)(.5)(.5) = .3333 wounds per round. average of 6 rounds to kill the EC.

EC gets 2 attacks per round(IIRC). Hits on 4s, wounds on 2s, Crowe saves on 2s. = .138 wounds per round. Average of 14.4 rounds to kill Crowe.

I don't have my codex nearby, but I think the EC gets 3 attacks per round. Base of 2 (has termie honours already in statline), plus has pistol and blacksword (counts as pwr sword with a str bonus).

=0.21 wounds/roud. Ave of 9.5 rounds to kill I think.

Crowe still wins...

IIRC the Blacksword is two-handed. its a relic blade for all intents and purposes.

 Grey Templar wrote:
IIRC the Blacksword is two-handed. its a relic blade for all intents and purposes.

That was the old version; it could be used two-handed as a power fist. The current version is one handed.

Ahhh right. So 3 attacks he does have. Still loses though.

He has two base attacks. 2 extra attacks with AAC if he charges. Thats 4 AP3 Str 6 attacks at Ini.......4 IIRC?

If he charges.

And you know that nutter is gonna be charging

The Emperor's champion has I5, A2, two weapons (pistol + power weapon), S6 (from the black sword) and (with AAC) +2A on the charge. He also has 2 wounds, 2+ armor with a 4++ invulnerable save.

If the EC charges, it's 5 attacks at Initiative 5 and S6.

If charged, the EC has 3 attacks at Initiative 5 and S6.

Please factor that into your discussion.

Doesn't crowe also have I5?

What I dont understand is......EC's profile lists all his wargear. He has no armory access. So I thought his stat line already factored in BP/CCW for two attacks. But then again, that wouldnt explain where the Term Honors went....but apparently Ive been doing it wrong and you add that BP attack on top of the 2 listed attacks. Whereas with most BT armory models you have to buy a BP to take an extra CC attack.

Bloody Mathhammer.

Well I'm going to say Crowe. I know that this doesn't mean much but I recall the story of an emperors champion getting his skull caved in by an ork warlord. An ork warlord! He's not fit to be anyone's champion let alone the big E

BaconUprising wrote:
Well I'm going to say Crowe. I know that this doesn't mean much but I recall the story of an emperors champion getting his skull caved in by an ork warlord. An ork warlord! He's not fit to be anyone's champion let alone the big E

The Emperor himself got beat down by a warboss once.

BaconUprising wrote:
Well I'm going to say Crowe. I know that this doesn't mean much but I recall the story of an emperors champion getting his skull caved in by an ork warlord. An ork warlord! He's not fit to be anyone's champion let alone the big E

The guy who'd been fighting in the Helsreach Crusade since day 1 and died the last day of the Crusade? Yeah, how DARE HE die after months of street-to-street combat without rest or resupply?!

Plus, if we get to pick any Emperor's Champion then, as has been mentioned, Sigismund wins. The guy took out Khârn, that good enough for you?

Sigismund > Crowe > Random EC

Crowe fought Skulltaker to a draw... pretty badass.

 McNinja wrote:
Doesn't crowe also have I5?

I6, but he strikes at I10. Mathhammer time:
Charge:
Crowe causes 0.666 unsaved wounds (average 3 attacks, re-roll failed hits)
EC causes 0.521 unsaved wounds (5 attacks, re-roll failed hits because he is charging Crowe)

No charge:
Crowe causes 0.333 unsaved wounds / turn
EC causes 0.208 unsaved wounds / turn

Turns to die for EC: 5 if charged by Crowe, 6 if not
Turns to die for Crowe: 8.1 if charged by EC, 9.6 if not.

End result: Charge or no, EC loses.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

BaconUprising wrote:
Well I'm going to say Crowe. I know that this doesn't mean much but I recall the story of an emperors champion getting his skull caved in by an ork warlord. An ork warlord! He's not fit to be anyone's champion let alone the big E

The guy who'd been fighting in the Helsreach Crusade since day 1 and died the last day of the Crusade? Yeah, how DARE HE die after months of street-to-street combat without rest or resupply?!
Plus, if we get to pick any Emperor's Champion then, as has been mentioned, Sigismund wins. The guy took out Khârn, that good enough for you?

Different EC, Bayard died in Helsreach at the Temple of the Emperor Ascendant against a horde of orks, but it was EC Vosper who died in single combat against an Ork Warlord aboard a Space Hulk in orbit of Armageddon. Still, an ork warboss/warlord is hardly a puny foe.

I agree hardly puny but he wasn't even wearing mega armour. That said though the ork warlord called the beast who brought the imperium to its knees and assaulted holy terra itself was said to not wear mega armour. But anyway Crows better!

 kronk wrote:
The Emperor's champion has I5, A2, two weapons (pistol + power weapon), S6 (from the black sword) and (with AAC) +2A on the charge. He also has 2 wounds, 2+ armor with a 4++ invulnerable save.

If the EC charges, it's 5 attacks at Initiative 5 and S6.

If charged, the EC has 3 attacks at Initiative 5 and S6.

Please factor that into your discussion.

Its really a 50/50 if either one gets the charge so its really a wash. But I'll generously assume the EC gets the charge for you.

Crowe goes first. Average of 2 attacks at I10. Hitting on 3s, rending on 4s, EC needs 4s to save. = .33333 wounds per round. Average of 6 rounds to kill the EC

EC attacks with 5 attacks first round. Hitting on 4s, wounding on 2s, and Crowe has 2+ armor. .347 wounds in the first round.

Second round. 3 attacks = .20 wounds per additional round.

This gives the EC 8.93 rounds to kill Crowe with average dice.

Crowe still wins. The EC is just a chump.

Well, it's not a fair fight anyway. One costs way more than the other. Well, if you count in the Vow for the EC it's more even, but the Vow doesn't really help him at all, plus it's priced for being army-wide. Not to mention that being a GK as far as I'm aware Crowe can inflict instant death, thus not even needing more than on unsaved wound on the EC?

And in any case, it's a "generic" character type of which many exist at any given time compared to a unique hero-type character. It's kinda like asking whether Lysander or a custom SM Captain would win in a duel.

Crowe doesn't have a Force Weapon.

Oh right, he has that daemon weapon thingy. Pff, damned Grey Daemons, ought to be purged!

Named character vs a jumped-up Sergeant. Kind of stupid isnt it?


Why dont you do the Mathhammer for Crowe vs Grimadlus or Helbrecht; much more realistic.

I don't know the relavent stats.

Realistically, on the TT I'll just use the Blade Shield stance and keep the character tied up with Crowe for the entire game.