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Helli fellow dakka members

I am an avid 40ker, but i decided to leave the far future for now, and begin life in the fantasy world

Ive been considering starting a Vampire Counts army, and after reading the armybook, rulebook, and read/watched many batreps, i feel confident enough to take the field

i'm going to start small, probably at 500 points, and honestly, since this game is much different, i request some tips, unit pros/cons or example army lists to help me wrap my head around this army and this game

Will any wizened Vampire Lords take a newling under their wing?

Update:
My 500pt list is as follows

Heroes:
Vampire
Heavy Armour
Enchanted Shield
Wiz Lvl 1 - Vamp Lore

Core
Dire Wolves x5

Skeletons x21
Full command

Zombies x20
Full command

Special
Vargheists x3

I regret building Vargheists. They simply are worse the Crypt Horrors, and the fact that they cost more is just a slap in the face.
Small army is tough for vampires, because you pretty much lose if your general dies. What you have is a pretty good start. As you expand your force you'll want more zombies, more skeletons, and then look at either hex wraiths, black knights, grave guard, or going with fighty characters.

-Matt

It's hard to really do a lot with VC at 500 points. Though what you have there should give you a taste of the undead. I would probably focus on more zombies and skeletons and not the wolves at that level. 40 points in wolves is a lot and at that number you don't get a lot of impact. I would just add 8 more skeletons. Let your signature spell pump up the zombie count and you should be ok there. The Vargs can deal with enemy ranged units like cannons.

Personally at 500 points I would just take a cheap Necro and boost up my numbers on the other stuff. VC is really a horde army and attrition can be your friend. Keep up with getting your troops reanimated. Also, I would take the Cursed book. It is really a nice way to get more power from your wizard. Use it first and your opponent will have to use up dice to stop it's effects. Most of those will help your horde in combat by hexing the opponent. I would go with Lv 1 Necro, Cursed Book or Ruby Ring of Ruin and Book of Arkhan. That is nearly max for your hero pts at 500, but gives you some neat spell power and helps make sure you get off your sig spell after exhausting your opponents dispel dice.

Vargheists are not worse then crypt horrors. They are flyers that can march. If you flank an enemy front and behind he will be in a bad position. It is a lott like the pegasus riders for bretonians.

I like the vargs over horrors because they are harder hitting and more mobile. Horrors are only important if your needing an anvil unit. Vargs will crush most enemies if you can get a flank charge on them turn 2.

 Niiai wrote:
Vargheists are not worse then crypt horrors. They are flyers that can march. If you flank an enemy front and behind he will be in a bad position. It is a lott like the pegasus riders for bretonians.

Except for that crappy leadership, frenzy and no save. They are far to easy for an opponent to lead off and deal with. All the vampire rule really does is prevent them from being properly healed by invocation. Marching isn't that great, anything that flies can start within the generals bubble, march 20" the first turn, and charge turn 2. A
As for hitting power, 3 attacks with poison at S4 is as good. If you're fighting 1+ or 2+ armor saves, vargheists and crypthorrors are going to be crumbling anyway..
If they were S6 or had some sort of save, or weren't vampires so I could properly heal them, I'd be on board.

-Matt

why would you put them against 1+ or 2+ saves? you make good points overall, but miss the idea of the unit. they excel at taking out enemy leadership, backfield shooting ( like cannons), and even lone wizards. Also, they are Ldr 7 which is hardly that bad. Also, if played right, they will still charge the right target even if you fail the Ldrship test. crypt horrors also don't help you against the 1+ or 2+ saves either. I prefer to stick the zombies on those units and deathscream them to death with the Terrorgeist.

Crypt horrors are tougher warriors, better for beginners, but vargheists are better for more cunning generals because they can fly and march, so have more tactical flexibility

HM has some good ideas for what to do as your army grows. Grave guard and really good, as infantry you get to add quite a few with every IoN spell you cast. I give them great weapons, since they are already slow. Hitting at S6 is where it's at for this unit. Give them enough bodies to soak up a few rounds of hits and keep the reanimation going on them and you'll slice through a ton of stuff.

Black knights are the same idea as GG, just a bit more mobile. You don't get as many back with IoN, but still more than you would res for Hexwraiths or Blood Knights. Numbers are important for them, they are going to have to take hits before they swing in combat. I also like the War Banner with them, in just two turns of combat it pays for itself. Each point of combat res will go a long way to winning and keeping your knights strong.

I run the Carriage sometimes, but I would avoid it in low point games. It doesn't really hit as hard as I would like and crumbles hard. Only good against small targets, until it charges up. Charging up the powers is tougher than I would like.

Terrorgeist is a sick addition, I would say it is a must take at anything 1500 or above.

Thank you all for the tips and suggestions
I now have a better idea of what units to take and how to achieve victory

Cant wait to play my first game

I see what everyone is saying about Vargheists, but Matt's really basically correct. They're too easy to lead. If you get a bad roll on Frenzy and you're playing against a decent player, you probably won't get the charge you want. If you're get that bad roll and playing against a good player, you definitely won't.

They're "tricky" not in that they're hard to use, but in the fact that using them effectively is more of a "trick" that most opponent's don't fall victim to more than once, at most.

 Tangent wrote:
I see what everyone is saying about Vargheists, but Matt's really basically correct. They're too easy to lead. If you get a bad roll on Frenzy and you're playing against a decent player, you probably won't get the charge you want. If you're get that bad roll and playing against a good player, you definitely won't.

They're "tricky" not in that they're hard to use, but in the fact that using them effectively is more of a "trick" that most opponent's don't fall victim to more than once, at most.

They're easy to lead yes but they are fliers so they can be parked with their back to your opponent during the first few turns. I'ts far from a perfect solution but it's better than something like Khorn warriors.

Also their mere existence is a threat to your opponent which can be useful. Park them in your opponents backfield and he will panic. As has been said Crypt Horrors are going to be better for new players but once you've got some games under your belt and know how to use chaff and flankers to their full effect they are worth a look.

 jonolikespie wrote:

 Tangent wrote:
I see what everyone is saying about Vargheists, but Matt's really basically correct. They're too easy to lead. If you get a bad roll on Frenzy and you're playing against a decent player, you probably won't get the charge you want. If you're get that bad roll and playing against a good player, you definitely won't.

They're "tricky" not in that they're hard to use, but in the fact that using them effectively is more of a "trick" that most opponent's don't fall victim to more than once, at most.

They're easy to lead yes but they are fliers so they can be parked with their back to your opponent during the first few turns. I'ts far from a perfect solution but it's better than something like Khorn warriors.

Also their mere existence is a threat to your opponent which can be useful. Park them in your opponents backfield and he will panic. As has been said Crypt Horrors are going to be better for new players but once you've got some games under your belt and know how to use chaff and flankers to their full effect they are worth a look.

If you're facing backwards, you have another risk. If your opponent can get anything into their charge arc, they are testing on their very low leadership, or charging off and overrunning backwards. I would do this with my dark riders. At ~200-300 points for 4 to 6 of them, it's not really an affordable unit to have just sitting back in reserve. They are also enough of a point sink that your opponent won't be wasting his time in dealing with them.

-Matt

They have the vampier rule and they fly, has high I and decent attacks. Yes they have frenzy but the abilaty to just scoop them up and move them 20" away is nothing to underestitame. They are very mobile. At 500 points it is limited how many units the opponent will have that can misdirect them to much. Good for getting flank charges or hunting lone/anoying things.

Very true, at only 500 points your opponent will have all their eggs in one basket or else they will have multiple units the Vargs would run strait through. They are still lacking in the survivability column but at only 500 your opponent won't have many counters.

At 500, though, they're also not getting a decent leadership bubble from whoever the general might be, as vamp heroes only have 7 leadership.

How about this: Turn one, fly them away without line of sight to the enemy some 20" away. Turn 2, fly them in the flank or behind the enemy. Remember, they are skirmishers because of the flying rule and they have good movement. Turn 3, charge. Hopefully the core of skeletons and zombies will also be in a decent charge range. If the dire wolves are not hunting war-machines then they can be used to time the meeting of the two armies ensuring that the vargheist are arriving on time.

Shurley getting sutch angry bats in the flank would not be healthy for anyone?

Sir Blayse wrote:
I would go with Lv 1 Necro, Cursed Book or Ruby Ring of Ruin and Book of Arkhan. That is nearly max for your hero pts at 500, but gives you some neat spell power and helps make sure you get off your sig spell after exhausting your opponents dispel dice.

Is that possible? AFAIK you can only have 1 arcane item unless there is something I am missing in the VC book that allows both.

 Tangent wrote:
At 500, though, they're also not getting a decent leadership bubble from whoever the general might be, as vamp heroes only have 7 leadership.

You usually wouldn't have them in the generals leadership bubble anyway, being vampiric fliers. They're flankers. They should be flying up an unguarded flank ready to pounce on a weaker backline unit rather than sitting near the general. Being a flying unit of more than 1 model, they're also skirmishers, which makes it a bit easier to prevent frenzy baiting.

Just sayin. A 500 point game lacks that possible solution to the frenzy problem. And really, I think it could happen more often than you think. If your vamp lord is in a cavalry unit, they're marching nearly as far as the Vargheists, and definitely within range of the leadership bubble. Put them both on one flank and you've got a problem solved, right there.

Impossible at 500 points.

 Tangent wrote:
Just sayin. A 500 point game lacks that possible solution to the frenzy problem. And really, I think it could happen more often than you think. If your vamp lord is in a cavalry unit, they're marching nearly as far as the Vargheists, and definitely within range of the leadership bubble. Put them both on one flank and you've got a problem solved, right there.

Impossible at 500 points.

Putting your vampire lord on a flank is kind of a waste. The rest of the army will be so slow you wouldn't accomplish much. Vampires really need their general front and center. Vargheists really don't need the leadership bubble - being skirmishers, they can reform as often as they want, so you really need to deliberately position yourself to end up having a Berserk Rage happen. And with a 20" march (which they can do without the general due to being Vampires themselves), you can position yourself pretty well. It's a risk, yes, but it's still an avoidable risk with Vargheists..

 Niiai wrote:
How about this: Turn one, fly them away without line of sight to the enemy some 20" away. Turn 2, fly them in the flank or behind the enemy. Remember, they are skirmishers because of the flying rule and they have good movement. Turn 3, charge. Hopefully the core of skeletons and zombies will also be in a decent charge range. If the dire wolves are not hunting war-machines then they can be used to time the meeting of the two armies ensuring that the vargheist are arriving on time.

It sounds like you're expecting to flank charge while zombies or skellies go in the front. That is very very bad.
Lots of other armies love the hammer and anvil tactic, but there is a difference between an anvil and a tarpit.
Vargeists in the side will not do enough damage to win combat if orcs or something are able to kill 20 zombies in their front and then the vargs will crumble just like the zombies.

Crypt horrors are better. Get a mortis engine with them. The poison is amazing and the regen is amazing.

Vargheists are mediocre at best. If they had higher leadership or no frenzy I would say they are better. But as it stands Crypt horrors are the FAR better choice.