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So we just recently came across a tank shock in my local game store(normally no one tank shocks). Please make sure you read the Tank Shock rules before posting.

So Ive got this senario: So im not sure of how to show this and it would be hard to explain but the box below is my leman russ. a,b,c,d,e, and f are all enemy marines that are fearless because of a special character which is one of the letters.

So basically my leman russ turns towards the unit and moves its 6 Inches. In 3 inches it reaches the enemy unit and stops. They must take leadership test but because they are fearless they auto pass. They choose to not death to glory as they dont have a unit that can hit the front AV14 armor to stop the tank. So now the tank moves its remain 3 inches through the enemy as if they werent there and ends up in the position below, on top the enemy units.

So now this is where we had our arguement. According to the rules the units below MUST BE MOVED OUT OF THE WAY BY THE SHORTEST DISTANCE, LEAVING AT LEAST 1 INCH BETWEEN THEM AND THE VEHICLE WHILE MAINTAINING UNIT COHERENCY AND STAYING ON THE BOARD. UNITS THAT CANNOT DO THIS ARE CRUSHED AND REMOVED FROM PLAY AS CASUALTIES.

So according to the terrible image below: units a moves in a straight line towards the rear of the russ leaving only and inch between him and the tank.
Unit b moves to the left side of the russ in a staright line leaving 1 inch between him and the tank.
Unit c does the same towards the right side of the tank.
Unit f moves to the left of the russ in a straight line as that is the shortest distance.
To make this simple all those units are in coherency.

Now this is were we really are confused, unit e must move in a straight line to the left side of the russ in a straight line as that is the shortest distance out from underneath the russ but! unit e is now on top of unit b. Unit e cannot be placed on unit b as that is not possible, therefor unit e dies. This is the same for unit d moving onto unit d. Now units e and d cannot angle there move left or right a little bit to avoid b or c because if you angle the models movement it will extend it by just a hair and will in turn increase its move which is illegal because the unit has to move by the shortest distance to get out from underneath the tank. No where in the rule does it say that the models under the tank may move so that they can avoid moving onto other models.

So in conclusion Units e and d are dead. Am I correct or am I missing something where they would be able to move. I know technically units e and d could move before b ad c but then units b and c would be killed by the tank shock. I am trying to figure this out because there was a senario very similar to this where I could have killed an enemy warlord by a tank shock.
Left of russ
__________
I ----- b-------- I
I-a----e----f----I Front of leman russ
I-------d---------I
I ___c______I

Right of russ

Can anyone answer this?

I direct you to the horribly written 'Models in the Way' on page 10. The first sentence addresses enemy models. The second sentence would seem to refer the enemy models, but it really refers to Models in the Way.

I don't know why they didn't cut and paste the same rule from Page 11 in the 5th Ed Rule Book.

Whatt im refering to is friendly models in the way from my above example. That example on page ten is for enemy models. A tank can end its move on top of enemy models, once that happens the enemy models must move out from under the tank by the shortest distance and maintaining coherency and staying on the board edge. The rules for tank shock do not say anything about models increasing their move distance to avoid friendly models. In this case units e and d would die.

tankboy145 wrote:
The rules for tank shock do not say anything about models increasing their move distance to avoid friendly models.

Yes, the Tank Shock rules do not cover this, but the Movement rules do.

Yes but if you move a greater distance than the minimum to get out from underneath the tank(to go around the friendly model) then you have failed that requirement and are considered crushed. pg 85 second paragraph on right side starting with "If some enemy models..."

So with this post I would be right that the 2 models would die?

The way the rule seems to be written that may be the case. Apparetnly if you were tank shocking a unit that is next to impassible terrain you would force them into impassible which technically isn't allowed. They don't even have rules that cover if a model ends up in impassible terrain.

No, because that isnt the shortest distance they can move to avoid the tank.

It isnt the shortest linear distance, it is the shortest distance to avoid the tank.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
No, because that isnt the shortest distance they can move to avoid the tank.

It isnt the shortest linear distance, it is the shortest distance to avoid the tank.

Are you refering to my quote or pk1?

For pk1 i believe that under impassible the unit would be removed as a casualty iirc, i dont have my rule book at the time.

If the quote is intended for i then please explain how else those two models would travel to move by the shortest distance to clear the tank. Because if you angle their movement left or right in any way to clear the models they would end on top of they will be centimeters closer which requires them to move farther to get more than 1 inch away from the tank. In turn since you moved farther and not by the shortest distance them you are crushed. Lets say it requires exactly 3 inches to get out from under the tank and be 1 inch away. Now angle that move so that the model would end slightly left or right of that model, you will realize it is slightly within the 1inch.

No, they wouldnt be, because the entire point is that you have to move the shortest possible distance. You cannot move into impassable terrain, so that is not a possible distance to move.

Oh I could careless about that because thats what I figured. Im just making sure that in the situation above that I originally posted I am correct, because tomorrow I will be back up at my store and I will be going over this with the ones that said I couldnt do this.

tankboy145 wrote:
Oh I could careless about that because thats what I figured. Im just making sure that in the situation above that I originally posted I am correct, because tomorrow I will be back up at my store and I will be going over this with the ones that said I couldnt do this.

The answer to your original question is no they would not be destroyed because You cannot move into impassable terrain, or other models so that is not a possible distance to move.

Therefore you have to move the models away from the vehicle and any impassible terrain or other models.

 DeathReaper wrote:

tankboy145 wrote:
Oh I could careless about that because thats what I figured. Im just making sure that in the situation above that I originally posted I am correct, because tomorrow I will be back up at my store and I will be going over this with the ones that said I couldnt do this.

The answer to your original question is no they would not be destroyed because You cannot move into impassable terrain, or other models so that is not a possible distance to move.

Therefore you have to move the models away from the vehicle and any impassible terrain or other models.

It doesnt say anything about avoiding enemy models though. The rules for tank shock say that if a model is under the tank it must move by the shortest distance minimum to get out from under the tank, while in unit coherency and staying on the board. So If you are traveling a greater distance than is required to meet these expectations your breaking the rule for traveling the minimum to get out from underneath the tank.

You are told to MOVE. Part of MOVING is you must stay 1" away from enemy models. Same as part of MOVING is you cannot move through impassable terrain

If you try to move within 1" of an enemy model you are prevented from doing so, making that an invalid path to take. So you must move around, making that the minimum MOVE required

Essentially you are stating that the TS rule contains all the stipulations you must follow, except it doesnt because it states this is a MOVE. As it is a MOVE you must follow ALL the rules for a MOVE

So the only way you could actually crush a troop when tank shocking is if you're a skimmer and you land in a crater that's your exact size, the walls of which are impassible terrain that some unlucky terminator managed to deep strike into?

To be honest they should have gone into more detail about when a model can be removed, since there's no save of any kind I imagine they intended it to be a rare to never thing that only happens in exceptional circumstances (Kharn, battle of Istvaan 3 amirite?). I'm fine with that. If you want to squish models, get a deff rolla.

or you tank shock to the middle of a large mob of models. the models can't move through the other models surrounding the tank and they get removed.

Quite fun if the HQ is in the middle of a large group of models

The models have permission to move in a 360 degree circle til they get to 1" away from the tank, then they block off that route to the next model.

so a fun way to deal with horde armies, or a sky shield full of troops. Not to effective or none at all, against a small 10 model or less unit.

Man thats so disappointing. The mob would be great. But it seems like one of the few ways to kill models is to surround them or pin them to where they can't move.

dont get your hopes up, even with a mob he can put his guys base to base with each other in a circle or semicircle (if you have tried to block with your guys) around the tank. There are going to be very few cases where he wont be able to squeeze in his guys and even if he cant he can move the heavy weapons and bosses first.

Not sure if pinned or models that cant move (for whatever reason) are squished but you would have to find a way to do it in the movement phase which is when tank shocking happens.

If you want to squish people get one of the vehicle upgraes that does it, orks have one as do chaos.

Yea my opponent could just move the more important guys first anyways. As I play guard and am usually up against chaos marines most of my opponents stuff is fearless so they dont usually go to ground anyways but that is a good question.

I've yet to see a Tank shock result in dead models. There is almost always a minimum safe distance that the enemy can move to get out of your way.

Tank shocking's best use is simply to move models off of objectives or to force them back from something else like a gun line that isn't very good at CC.

Prior to performing the tank shock you generally want to keep in mind where the unit you are running over is going to end up. For example, if you hit the unit along the left side then you'll force them to move to the right. If you hit them in the middle then more often than not the enemy player gets to pick which direction they go. So plan well.

Now, if you get one of the vehicle upgrades that will actually cause hits against the enemy unit then you are in business.

What happens if you tank shock a unit behind a ADL's quad gun (assuming you pass the immobilization test)
Can you move the quadgun?
can you land on top of the quadgun?
do you have to at last move past the quadgun?

 jegsar wrote:
What happens if you tank shock a unit behind a ADL's quad gun (assuming you pass the immobilization test)

See http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/499557.page#5160552

Its basically terrain so it follows the rules as terrain except it can be shot at and wounded in Close combat.

Its the shortest distance possible. So unless they cant stay in coherancy or move off the board they are destryed. Yes they have to move at an angle but thats the only way for them to move there fore its the shortest distance to get 1 inch away from the tank and maintain coherancy.. So it would look as though you gavehim a free move forward.