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Most of the Traitor Legions are well known for taking as their patron one of the Ruinous Powers or the idea of Chaos itself. Three are not closely associated with any particular Chaos God. Sometimes these three have been represented, either in their entirety or by their individuals members, as abhorring Chaos. For example, Siege of Castellax shows the Iron Warriors imprisoning one of their brothers who has been overcome by "the Obliterator virus." Or again, in Aaron Dembski-Bowden's Night Lords trilogy, Talos is contemptuous of Vandred's possession as well as a Khornate bezerker in his squad.

My question is, what if it doesn't matter what the Legion or Legionnaires themselves do or think -- what if one or all of the Ruinous Powers patronizes them anyway? How would you fill in the blanks below?

III. Emperor's Children: Slaanesh
IV. Iron Warriors: ________
VIII. Night Lords: ________
XII. World Eaters: Khorne
XIV. Death Guard: Nurgle
XV. Thousand Sons: Tzeentch
XVI. Sons of Horus/Black Legion: Chaos Undivided
XVII. Word Bearers: Chaos Undivided
XX. Alpha Legion: ________

My initial thoughts are Nurgle for the IW, Slaanesh for the NL, and of course Tzeentch for the Alpha Legion. I guess that means the WE have to work extra hard to please Khorne. Then again, since all CSM are rampaging across the galaxy one way or another, I guess we should keep in mind that Khorne cares not from whence the blood flows.

I'd agree on Iron Warriors and Alpha Legion. Night Lords are a bit tricky though. The Curze and those who faithfully followed his ideology didn't terrorize worlds because he enjoyed it or it gave him pleasure, but rather because he felt it was enforcing a universal truth. That really doesn't fit with any Chaos God, but Khorne might have simply been happy at all the needless mayhem they were causing.

Night Lords are tricky, some of their marines are alright with dedicating themselves to the Chaos Gods, others are not.

I think Khorne and Slaanesh would take some interest in the Night Lords, they slaughter people while causing huge amounts of fear which they draw pleasure from feeding both gods

I do think the NL did it for the thrill, the love of violence, like some kind of sicko serial killers. And Konrad himself was obsessed with one pleasure amid all his suffering: the pleasure of vindication, the satisfaction of being right. The fact that he sacrificed his flesh for this pleasure would please Slaanesh immensely.

This is an interesting concept, Manchu. However I don't think we can call any of the Chaos Gods those Legions' patrons when we consider how most of these Legions (as a whole) seem to conduct themselves when dealing with Chaos. The Night Lords despise Chaos Worshipers as a whole. Most of them want nothing to do with it. Iron Warriors hate it so much that a good majority of them cut their limbs off and replace them with bionics the second mutation shows up. The Alpha Legion were obviously opposed or minimally disinterested in Chaos considering they didn't even retreat to the Eye of Terror after the Horus Heresy ended. Not to mention what happened with the Cabal.

I wonder if the Chaos Gods would even bother with a bunch of factions who have been opposed to them for 10k years when there are billions of tasty souls throughout the galaxy who would gladly fight to fulfill their wishes. I suppose they would never stop trying to corrupt the souls of anyone they can get their hands on, but acting as a patron for a group who wants nothing to do with them? It's a stretch, to me. It's like saying Slaanesh would be a patron to Grey Knights because of the great pleasure they take in killing Daemons.

Very interesting concept though. Not trying to poo-poo your idea, just giving a conflicting opinion for the sake of discussion.

Remember the caveat this thread is based on is -- it doesn't matter what these three Legions themselves do or want -- the Ruinous Powers will make them serve anyway. As for the GK comparison, I see your point ... but GK aren't CSM. Despite their antipathy to the Chaos Gods, these three Legions are all CSM.

Khorne wouldn't patron the Night Lords because they enjoy spreading terror. Khorne hates emotion and also dislikes senseless killing. I mean, it's still blood for the blood god, but killing a hundred innocent people isn't as interesting to him as watching two war scarred veterans dueling one another, because he prefers martial honesty and the warrior's pride.
In that way, I think the Night Lords' patron would be good ol' Papa Nurgle, the Chaos God of Despair.

Alpha Legion is obviously Tzeentchian.

The Iron Warriors are a bit tougher. If it doesn't necessarily have to be a Chaos god, then I would absolutely vote for the Void Dragon, Omnissiah, or whatever lives in Mars. But a more angry version. If it has to be a chaos god, then I would say Khorne or Nurgle. The former because they love to break open a fortress and smash into the unfortunate defenders. The latter because if the Iron Warriors set up camp outside your house, you'll probably be a bit sad.
And the Obliterator mutation could be important, though I'm not sure who exactly would bestow that.

The Obliterator Virus sounds like a gift of Nurgle. And smashing up fortresses is very Nurglian, too: you think you're safe and sound but death comes for you weaklings! Also, the IW seem to be about endurance rather than brute force -- sieges rather than charges, if you see what I mean.

 xSPYXEx wrote:
Khorne hates emotion and also dislikes senseless killing. I mean, it's still blood for the blood god, but killing a hundred innocent people isn't as interesting to him as watching two war scarred veterans dueling one another, because he prefers martial honesty and the warrior's pride.

No. Khorne cares not from whence the blood flows, so long as it flows. He likes indiscriminate slaughter just as much as he likes martial prowess.

Grey K nights -they are in the service of the fifth chaos GOD - Man himeself...

 Manchu wrote:
Remember the caveat this thread is based on is -- it doesn't matter what these three Legions themselves do or want -- the Ruinous Powers will make them serve anyway. As for the GK comparison, I see your point ... but GK aren't CSM. Despite their antipathy to the Chaos Gods, these three Legions are all CSM.

To be fair, considering the ruinous powers are "fuelled" by emotions, surely even the Grey Knights serve Chaos to an extent, as do all humans, intentional or not?

I mean, to an extent they all serve them somewhat: causing despair (Nurgle) through killing (Khorne), in which they take pleasure (Slaanesh), all the while having ambitions (Tzeentch) to overthrow the Imperium or serve Chaos.(?)

I'd agree with your main points I think though, particularly the Night Lords taking pleasure in their 'work'.

No doubt the Ruinous Powers feed off all humanity's hysteria but that does not implicate all humanity as worshipers of Chaos nor even cooperating with it. The Iron Warriors, Night Lords, and Alpha Legion are all Chaos Space Marines. Whatever their view of Chaos, it has already mastered them. This thread is about discussing which power might have claimed them.

Definitely Tzeentch for Alpha Legion. Even they don't know what their complicated plan is.

would there be any who jsut used the heresy to say"peace out" and not go to chaos?

Some of the Fallen are said to be that way. They just wanted "normal" lives.

Some of The Fallen may be Deathwatch for Emperor's sake.

I don't really think this is a useful question; the Ruinous Powers have an almost Lovecraftian disregard for the material realm, only occasionally reaching out to nudge it back on a path to more chaos and destruction. The Traitor Legions are not defined in terms of what Chaos power has chosen to protect them, but in terms of what Chaos power they have chosen to devote themselves to.

I always thought those three to be Chaos Undivided........

 AnomanderRake wrote:
The Traitor Legions are not defined in terms of what Chaos power has chosen to protect them, but in terms of what Chaos power they have chosen to devote themselves to.

That doesn't seem to be true at all. Magnus especially would beg to differ. And Mortarion. And Fulgrim. Really, the only Legion that went over completely of their own free will seems to be the Word Bearers.

Iron Warriors seem more like Tzeentch, really.

Callousness, inquisitive minds, meticulous planning, long-reaching goals, practical thinking, internal scheming and backstabbing, willingness to improvise... Plus, just roaming around the galaxy, taking down fortresses and then building them up as their own is change for change's sake....

Also, the Obliterators represent evolution. Astartes and machine evolving into something else altogether, something greater than the sum of its parts.

Night Lords would probably be Slaaneshii, in my opinion...

Siege of Castellax portrays IW as stationary. One company controls a planet and constantly sends tribute to Medrengard. Their plans don't seem complicated in the convoluted Tzeentchian sense. I think two words sum them up: paranoid and brutal. If they were just brutal, I'd say Khorne was their patron. But paranoia seems to be their dominant feature. Even their infamous warcry hints at an inferiority complex and overcompensation -- think of it in relation to their fear and loathing of the Obliterator Virus. These guys seem to be resisting Papa Nurgle as much as they can but he blesses them anyway.

Decay is a big theme with Iron Warriors, another reason they belong to Nurgle imo. Veteran Iron Warriors are always described as being hulking monstrosities of flesh and machine, devoid of the honor they once possessed. You don't really get this with descriptions of veteran Word Bearers, Alpha Legion, Night Lords, etc.

Night lords-khorne. terrifying warriors in dark colours who revel in pain and, much like the dark elda, mainly other's

Night Lords as a whole are unaffiliated. As was mentioned, in general they despise the concept of being enslaved to Chaos.

However, Uzas in the Night Lords trilogy is a worshipper of Khorne, additionally Vandred the shipmaster is possessed by a demon of Tzeentch.

Zso Sahaal from the old Lord of The Knight book is more the 'bargain with a number of different minor chaos powers, depending on whats convenient at the time.'

The Obliterator Virus is probably a manifestation of a minor chaos power not directly related to the Big 4.

 &theyshallknownofear wrote:
Night lords-khorne. terrifying warriors in dark colours who revel in pain and, much like the dark elda, mainly other's

That's not really Khorne. Night Lords play and mess about with their "food", Khorne would just want them to devour it. IMHO, out of the 4 Slaanesh is definitely right.

You might also look at these three Legions as "up for grabs" among the Four (or Undivided/various minor allegiances) and the discussion is, which God has their claws in deepest?

 Manchu wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:
The Traitor Legions are not defined in terms of what Chaos power has chosen to protect them, but in terms of what Chaos power they have chosen to devote themselves to.

That doesn't seem to be true at all. Magnus especially would beg to differ. And Mortarion. And Fulgrim. Really, the only Legion that went over completely of their own free will seems to be the Word Bearers.

The way I recall it (I haven't read the Horus Heresy books, so I may be completely off here), the Chaos Gods are Lovecraftian entities with thought processes and concerns that are outside our realm of understanding. During the Emperor's rise to power and the Heresy, they somehow came to the conclusion that a strong, united Imperium of Man would be a bad thing, so they went and manipulated half the Space Marines into revolting; it doesn't seem to me like they'd be too concerned with fighting over which god has the sole devotion of each Undivided Legion or whether the Legions were openly Chaos-worshippers at all so long as they got their rebellion. Plus there's the fact that each Legion has a 'portfolio', as it were, and most of the 'portfolios' don't line up with individual deities; the Iron Warriors are the machine-obsessed bigger-guns people, the Night Lords fight with fear as a weapon, the Word Bearers seek to propagate their cult, the Alpha Legion fights guerilla wars using unconventional tactics, and the Black Legion are devoted to the destruction of the Imperium; with possible exception of the Alpha Legion, none of these really line up with any one Chaos God over another.

Yeah, if you read the novels you will see that Chaos goes pretty far out of its way to "seduce" Horus and dominate the other Primarchs. The "gotcha" moments for Magnus and Mortarion were well-established before the HH series. And we now know Fulgrim actively battled with a daemon for on-again-off-again control of his body.

I don't think "Lovecraftian" is a suitable adjective for the Ruinous Powers. They take a quite active interest in the doings of the Materium even if only as a minor facet of their Great Game in the Warp.

As the Iron Warriors go, the idea of them dedicating themselves to Nurgle seems somewhat ridiculous. They cut off mutated appendages to replace with Bionics so the idea of them wanting the patronage of the God associated with turning his followers into bloated walking septic tanks doesn't gel with me.

What I remember reading about them though was that they were dedicated to discipline and that Purturbo and Fulgrim has some kind of respect for each other seeing themselves as both on a different path to perfection.
The other thing being that they grew so frustrated with the constant sieges that they preferred the enemy not to surrender so they could feel some relief from the monotony in battle. So perhaps the more likely is Slaanesh.