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Welp.

DA: 14 point tac marines with ATSKNF and Stubborn.

CSM: 13 point marines with nothing.

Are Combi-Bolters available to any Deathwing or Ravenwing?

Are “Mortis” options available for Dreads or just the Twin-Link Auto Cannon and Missile Launcher Only?

Assault Quads, what are they like?

The question is -- do they have an extra CCW. That will determine if they overtake wolves for the best 'hoard MEQ'

Stubborn on ATSKNF units is actually a disadvantage. Its better to fall back out of assault then shoot your opponent in the face.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
Welp.
DA: 14 point tac marines with ATSKNF and Stubborn.
CSM: 13 point marines with nothing.

Heh. A lot of people wish for BT to be the "horde marines" (which I don't necessarily want personally, being a low-cost horde means the individuals kinda suck)... hard to see getting more "horde-costed" than that though, and that 14 points per model literally makes our current 16 points without grenades a poor, poor joke. Oh well, our time will come... maybe!

I'm really curious to know if DA bike armies are going to overtake C:SM bike armies.

Their DA base bike is 2 more points than the C:SM bike.
You can, however start without a 2 attack Sergeant -- which means 6 DA bikes are actually 4 points cheaper than 6 C:SM bikes. Special weapons cost the same.

DA bikes come with the following advantages
- Scouts
- Hit and Run
- Teleport homer

DA bikes have the following disadvantages
- Attack bikes are 5 points more expensive.
- Stubborn (yes, this is a disadvantage with bikes and ATSKNF - you want to break)

DA bikes also have better command squads, and the supporting landspeeder 'DJ-speeder'

Automatically Appended Next Post:

tvih wrote:
Heh. A lot of people wish for BT to be the "horde marines" (which I don't necessarily want personally, being a low-cost horde means the individuals kinda suck)... hard to see getting more "horde-costed" than that though, and that 14 points per model literally makes our current 16 points without grenades a poor, poor joke. Oh well, our time will come... maybe!

Man, if your going to run BT hoard armies, run them 'counts as' space wolves.

Don't bring any rune priests. Run them on foot. Add wolf guard terminators to the squads. Add a squad of swiftclaws as neophytes on bikes.
That makes the fit the fluff just as much and they are actually good on the tabletop, unlike BT.

Can Sammael ride a regular bike?

Does Azrael have an artificer armour?

What options does the regular Company Master have? Artificer armour? Any unusual weapons like relic blade?

DA bikes dont have one of the things that makes Choas bikes really good though - mark of nurlge, toughness 6 bikes are way harder to kill with dakka than T5.

 labmouse42 wrote:
I'm really curious to know if DA bike armies are going to overtake C:SM bike armies.

Their DA base bike is 2 more points than the C:SM bike.
You can, however start without a 2 attack Sergeant -- which means 6 DA bikes are actually 4 points cheaper than 6 C:SM bikes. Special weapons cost the same.

DA bikes come with the following advantages
- Scouts
- Hit and Run
- Teleport homer

DA bikes have the following disadvantages
- Attack bikes are 5 points more expensive.
- Stubborn (yes, this is a disadvantage with bikes and ATSKNF - you want to break)

DA bikes also have better command squads, and the supporting landspeeder 'DJ-speeder'

Automatically Appended Next Post:

tvih wrote:
Heh. A lot of people wish for BT to be the "horde marines" (which I don't necessarily want personally, being a low-cost horde means the individuals kinda suck)... hard to see getting more "horde-costed" than that though, and that 14 points per model literally makes our current 16 points without grenades a poor, poor joke. Oh well, our time will come... maybe!

Man, if your going to run BT hoard armies, run them 'counts as' space wolves.

Don't bring any rune priests. Run them on foot. Add wolf guard terminators to the squads. Add a squad of swiftclaws as neophytes on bikes.
That makes the fit the fluff just as much and they are actually good on the tabletop, unlike BT.

azala wrote:
DA bikes dont have one of the things that makes Choas bikes really good though - mark of nurlge, toughness 6 bikes are way harder to kill with dakka than T5.

If only CSM bikes could be scoring!

Damn you Phil Kelly!!!

 labmouse42 wrote:
The question is -- do they have an extra CCW. That will determine if they overtake wolves for the best 'hoard MEQ'

Stubborn on ATSKNF units is actually a disadvantage. Its better to fall back out of assault then shoot your opponent in the face.

No they don't. Their starting wargear is exactly the same as all other Tacs.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
Welp.

DA: 14 point tac marines with ATSKNF and Stubborn.

CSM: 13 point marines with nothing.

Don't feel so bad. Tyranids have to pay 10 points for a Spore Mine. How the hell is that fair? LOL.

Davor wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
Welp.

DA: 14 point tac marines with ATSKNF and Stubborn.

CSM: 13 point marines with nothing.

Don't feel so bad. Tyranids have to pay 10 points for a Spore Mine. How the hell is that fair? LOL.

Well, SM pays 10 points for a single-shot Krak missile for vehicles... at least CSM gets a Havoc Launcher which I'd rather have for my SM vehicles too

I'm wondering if anything in my collection is no longer legal, as it was legal under the old codex but I haven't seen the new one yet.

NOTE: I am aware my army isn't all that great, but I mostly went for looks over what it can do so yeah. >_>;

HQ's
Company Master with Power Sword (AoBR Captain)
Company Master with Power Sword and Combi-Plasma (DV)
Librarian (DV)
Interrogator-Chaplain with Plasma Pistol (DV Limited Edition)
5 Man Command Squad with Company Champion, 1 Veteran with Power Weapon and Plasma Pistol, 1 Veteran with just a Plasma Pistol (DA Veterans Kit)

Elites
5 Man Deathwing Terminator Squad, 1 Terminator with Chainfist, 1 Terminator with Assault Cannon (DV)
5 Man Deathwing Terminator Squad, 1 Terminator with Assault Cannon (AoBR Termie Squad, Assault Cannon from Veteran Kit)
Dreadnaught with Multi-Melta (AoBR)

Troops
10 Man Tactical Squad, 1 with Plasma Cannon, 1 with Plasma Gun, Sergeant has Plasma Pistol (DV)
10 Man Tactical Squad, 1 with Missile Launcher, 1 with Flamer. (AoBR)
5 Man Scout Squad, 4 with Sniper Rifles, Sergeant has a Bolt Pistol and Power Fist (Sniper Scout Kit, Bolt Pistol and Power Fist from Veteran Kit)
<The site lists Scouts as troops in the DA section, so I'm assuming they've been moved from elites to troops>

Fast Attack
3 Man Ravenwing Bike Squadron, 1 with Plasma Gun. All bikes have twinlinked bolterguns (DV)

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Still, Tacticals having access to it is a bit annoying... but not too annoying... almost no one will take 'em on Tacticals...

Depends totally on the game size really. In a smaller point game that investment might be necessary on a tactical squad missile launcher since you may not have a devastator squad full of MLs to fall back on.

Skriker

tvih wrote:

Davor wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
Welp.

DA: 14 point tac marines with ATSKNF and Stubborn.

CSM: 13 point marines with nothing.

Don't feel so bad. Tyranids have to pay 10 points for a Spore Mine. How the hell is that fair? LOL.

Well, SM pays 10 points for a single-shot Krak missile for vehicles... at least CSM gets a Havoc Launcher which I'd rather have for my SM vehicles too

I can't tell if you're being serious or not.

 Sasori wrote:

tvih wrote:

Well, SM pays 10 points for a single-shot Krak missile for vehicles... at least CSM gets a Havoc Launcher which I'd rather have for my SM vehicles too

I can't tell if you're being serious or not.

Serious in that I'd rather have Havoc Launcher over HKM. At least as an option, if nothing else. One-shot weapons are usually bleh for me, magically they always miss regardless of BS. Sure HKM has its uses and on average if you use it wisely should make back its points, but especially on my Templars I can already spam such amounts of Krak missiles that paying 10 for a single-shot one feels wasteful. Then again I suppose I can spam frag missiles too...

But Havoc launcher looks cooler anyway, so it wins on that alone already!

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
Welp.

DA: 14 point tac marines with ATSKNF and Stubborn.

CSM: 13 point marines with nothing.

Seems par for the course but that's what happens when you get a crappy codex.
Let's not forget that Inner Circle grants Preferred Enemy: Chaos and that there is a Warlord Trait that reduces the AP of weapons against Chaos models by 1. I'm really glad I'm not playing Chaos this edition because my friend's Dark Angels would just take them to town and I doubt that I'd even have a chance.

So....thanks for not answering my question. I'll just save up and buy the codex next month.

Good thread on /tg guy.

 reds8n wrote:
I'm sorry folks but if people could refrain from posting pictures from the codex, we've had some issues over this release already, could do without any further hassles.

Thanks

Apologies friend won't happen again

Read the codex last night and it was nowhere near as gross as the rumours. Sadly I expect it will spawn a load of Deathwing Knight spam armies with identi-kit loadouts, like Draigowing with the GK. It is an SM codex with add-ons in effect, nothing too OP for my money. The key thing about Deathwing Knights is that they only have 1W and so are not as survivable as GK paladins. With all those termie saves a 2W model is massively survivable, it is unlikely to fail too many 2+ saves in a row and will usually get to cc, whereas a 1W model is not as likely. IIRC paladins are 5pts more per model so for me that 1W is preferable to the natty new mace, etc.

I found the codex to be well-laid-out, the same format as CSM, which I like with the generic upgrade lists to prevent having 100s of options on every unit listing. However, I thought the artwork was generally poor, the cover is nice but the incidental page artwork isn't great. The fluff is not especially detailed, especially on the Fallen. Most of it read as a pretty straight rehash of previous stuff, with some rewording but nothing spectcularly new.

 Vladsimpaler wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
Welp.

DA: 14 point tac marines with ATSKNF and Stubborn.

CSM: 13 point marines with nothing.

Seems par for the course but that's what happens when you get a crappy codex.
Let's not forget that Inner Circle grants Preferred Enemy: Chaos and that there is a Warlord Trait that reduces the AP of weapons against Chaos models by 1. I'm really glad I'm not playing Chaos this edition because my friend's Dark Angels would just take them to town and I doubt that I'd even have a chance.

If only Chaos had some sort of way to get a bonus against all loyalist Space Marines...

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Vladsimpaler wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
Welp.

DA: 14 point tac marines with ATSKNF and Stubborn.

CSM: 13 point marines with nothing.

Seems par for the course but that's what happens when you get a crappy codex.
Let's not forget that Inner Circle grants Preferred Enemy: Chaos and that there is a Warlord Trait that reduces the AP of weapons against Chaos models by 1. I'm really glad I'm not playing Chaos this edition because my friend's Dark Angels would just take them to town and I doubt that I'd even have a chance.

If only Chaos had some sort of way to get a bonus against all loyalist Space Marines...

Yeah too bad it only works on the first turn of close combat and we have to pay for it, unlike them where it always works and it doesn't increase their points...nice try though.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
Welp.

DA: 14 point tac marines with ATSKNF and Stubborn.

CSM: 13 point marines with nothing.

Tau FW: 10 pts for terrible stats and a sweet gun

 Vladsimpaler wrote:
Yeah too bad it only works on the first turn of close combat and we have to pay for it, unlike them where it always works and it doesn't increase their points...nice try though.

Still, low cost and increases leadership too, so not that bad.

But even so, 14pt ATSKNF models... ugh. Will see how many will pick up DA locally (50k population town, so not a big playerbase) now with the new Codex. I'd imagine a few, at least.

tvih wrote:

 Vladsimpaler wrote:
Yeah too bad it only works on the first turn of close combat and we have to pay for it, unlike them where it always works and it doesn't increase their points...nice try though.

Still, low cost and increases leadership too, so not that bad.

Not too bad but not that good either. You pay for the Leadership, not for the Hatred since the Hatred will basically never come into play since close combat sucks in 6th.

But even so, 14pt ATSKNF models... ugh. Will see how many will pick up DA locally (50k population town, so not a big playerbase) now with the new Codex. I'd imagine a few, at least.

Haha yeah that's the kicker right there. Pretty insane.

 Vladsimpaler wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Vladsimpaler wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
Welp.

DA: 14 point tac marines with ATSKNF and Stubborn.

CSM: 13 point marines with nothing.

Seems par for the course but that's what happens when you get a crappy codex.
Let's not forget that Inner Circle grants Preferred Enemy: Chaos and that there is a Warlord Trait that reduces the AP of weapons against Chaos models by 1. I'm really glad I'm not playing Chaos this edition because my friend's Dark Angels would just take them to town and I doubt that I'd even have a chance.

If only Chaos had some sort of way to get a bonus against all loyalist Space Marines...

Yeah too bad it only works on the first turn of close combat and we have to pay for it, unlike them where it always works and it doesn't increase their points...nice try though.

If only Chaos had some way of having their ability work against more than one Codex...

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Vladsimpaler wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Vladsimpaler wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
Welp.

DA: 14 point tac marines with ATSKNF and Stubborn.

CSM: 13 point marines with nothing.

Seems par for the course but that's what happens when you get a crappy codex.
Let's not forget that Inner Circle grants Preferred Enemy: Chaos and that there is a Warlord Trait that reduces the AP of weapons against Chaos models by 1. I'm really glad I'm not playing Chaos this edition because my friend's Dark Angels would just take them to town and I doubt that I'd even have a chance.

If only Chaos had some sort of way to get a bonus against all loyalist Space Marines...

Yeah too bad it only works on the first turn of close combat and we have to pay for it, unlike them where it always works and it doesn't increase their points...nice try though.

If only Chaos had some way of having their ability work against more than one Codex...

Durrr if only it didn't rely on being in close combat

Is cypher in?

 Vladsimpaler wrote:
Durrr if only it didn't rely on being in close combat

I nearly wet myself reading that in Burt's voice.

 labmouse42 wrote:
Well, if you have a character join, they get FNP as well. That might be worth it.

49 points for TH/SS termies. Thats nearly 25% more expensive than C:SM.

I really wonder how their special rules will work out.

remember, codex Marone terminators are not Fearless...